1 hour ago, chills said:

Don't hold your breath.  🙂 

I am expecting a better response from OSRAM than the VW Group.

 

Osram make LED retrofit dro ins that are road legal in various European countries but that legality hasn't been replicated here in the UK so they can't be legally used here yet.

12 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Osram make LED retrofit dro ins that are road legal in various European countries but that legality hasn't been replicated here in the UK so they can't be legally used here yet.

If it is road legal for the OSRAM H8 fog lights in other EU countries (the spec sheet indicated as much) then hopefully, it should be technically correct for the car, bus errors, beam pattern etc if not, yet, technically legal in the UK (or GB?).

So it would be safe to use on the road and indeed some EU drivers, using them legally will be driving with them in the UK for work/holiday,   Also it will be the correct lamp when the law catches up.
It would have to be a decision each driver would have to make for themselves.

I will see what answer I get out of OSRAM UK.

Edited 30 December, 20241 yr by chills

At least you will not be using them when there are other road users around and just when you have on Full Beam.

Only maybe a Police person at the roadside parked up someplace will see you lit up like you are on the dark side of the moon. 

24 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

At least you will not be using them when there are other road users around and just when you have on Full Beam.

Only maybe a Police person at the roadside parked up someplace will see you lit up like you are on the dark side of the moon. 

Actually, if there are some decent H8 LED fog lights that are road legal, they will be fog lights and I won't be lit up like that.  Too much light is counterproductive in fog. 

 

At some point, as with the original car lamps (I mean hot filament not the carbide lamps) will no longer be produced, and we will have to fit LED lights anyway,

 

@chills  Are you reading your own thread? 

We know what fog lights are for and how they work, or when they should be used.   It is you that sees or does not see much fog and want different lighting. 

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@chills  Are you reading your own thread? 

We know what fog lights are for and how they work, or when they should be used.   It is you that sees or does not see much fog and want different lighting. 

Yes I am reading my own thread. The H8 LED lamps are available from yellow through white to blue-white and with power outputs from "normal" to 200% increase.
Some will work as  "normal" fog lights, others will work as driving lights. Others will be the sort of 200% blue white searchlights I think you were alluding to.
 

Finally got to the bottom of it.

 

LED lights have a different light source to other lights. So you need an LED lamp that has been designed to work in the reflector set up on the car that was designed for Tungsten/ Halogen etc. Otherwise, the light pattern is not the same and therefore not legal. There are various types of LED lamp that do work well but won't be road legal because of the non-legal light pattern.
Some LED bulbs do have a legal light pattern but...

 

Next is colour:  Some countries require certain colour temperatures and tints for certain lights. So some tints or temperatures of LED's lights may look good but not legal for that position on the car (if at all)
Others have specific power requirements for certain lights. IE wattage.

 

Due to LED lights drawing a lot less current, you need a shunt (OSRAM do a kit for this) to fool the CAN sensors, otherwise you will show a permanent light error on the dash.
So you are going to be drawing the same current as a "normal" bulb.

 

This is why not legal to fit LED's as replacements in a car that was not designed for or fitted with LED's to start with.

 

However...  Some LED bulbs are legal as replacement for Tungsten/ Halogen bulbs in some cars in some countries.

 

OSRAM do make some H8 LED fog lamps that are legal for the Karoq in some countries in the EU, but not yet legal in the UK. 

Talking to OSRAM the technician he pointed out if you have any sort of insurable incident and the insurance companies assessor looks at the car and notices a non-legal LED light  (even if the identical lamp in an identical car is legal across 1/2 of Europe) they will say your car is not covered by insurance due to an "illegal modification".  

 

When, eventually, the UK legislation catches up later this year, this decade, never, etc  you can fit the exact same bulb and be completely legal but until then he advised it just isn't worth it.
Especially if the police are doing spot checks for anything and the officer who stops you knows the Karoq front fogs are not supposed to be LED. 
 

Asking why he thought all the lights except the front fogs were LED he said "probably"  cost.  Fractions of a penny make the difference in manufacturing.
So in short, you can buy them, but they are not legal in the UK. However, If you regularly drive in [parts of] Europe you can fit them on the ferry heading south and be completely legal....

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, chills said:

Finally got to the bottom of it.

 

LED lights have a different light source to other lights. So you need an LED lamp that has been designed to work in the reflector set up on the car that was designed for Tungsten/ Halogen etc. Otherwise, the light pattern is not the same and therefore not legal. There are various types of LED lamp that do work well but won't be road legal because of the non-legal light pattern.
Some LED bulbs do have a legal light pattern but...

 

Next is colour:  Some countries require certain colour temperatures and tints for certain lights. So some tints or temperatures of LED's lights may look good but not legal for that position on the car (if at all)
Others have specific power requirements for certain lights. IE wattage.

 

Due to LED lights drawing a lot less current, you need a shunt (OSRAM do a kit for this) to fool the CAN sensors, otherwise you will show a permanent light error on the dash.
So you are going to be drawing the same current as a "normal" bulb.

 

This is why not legal to fit LED's as replacements in a car that was not designed for or fitted with LED's to start with.

 

However...  Some LED bulbs are legal as replacement for Tungsten/ Halogen bulbs in some cars in some countries.

 

OSRAM do make some H8 LED fog lamps that are legal for the Karoq in some countries in the EU, but not yet legal in the UK. 

Talking to OSRAM the technician he pointed out if you have any sort of insurable incident and the insurance companies assessor looks at the car and notices a non-legal LED light  (even if the identical lamp in an identical car is legal across 1/2 of Europe) they will say your car is not covered by insurance due to an "illegal modification".  

 

When, eventually, the UK legislation catches up later this year, this decade, never, etc  you can fit the exact same bulb and be completely legal but until then he advised it just isn't worth it.
Especially if the police are doing spot checks for anything and the officer who stops you knows the Karoq front fogs are not supposed to be LED. 
 

Asking why he thought all the lights except the front fogs were LED he said "probably"  cost.  Fractions of a penny make the difference in manufacturing.
So in short, you can buy them, but they are not legal in the UK. However, If you regularly drive in [parts of] Europe you can fit them on the ferry heading south and be completely legal....

 

 

 

 

Which is all exactly as we've been trying to tell you...???   Albeit maybe in not so many words and not as clearly...

Edited 6 January, 20251 yr by skomaz

21 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Which is all exactly as we've been trying to tell you...???   Albeit maybe in not so many words and not as clearly...

Quite. Hence, a clear and complete description.  Especially as one or two in this thread wanted LED fogs whether-or-not they were road legal. 
So if you want to do it then get the OSRAM H8 that is road legal in some European countries and the shunt kit, but you will still be risking your insurance cover.

 

NOTE A lot of the Chinese and other LED's are not road legal anywhere (even if they have a stamp on them to say they are). It isn't worth fitting them at all. Even off-road.
 

Edited 6 January, 20251 yr by chills

4 hours ago, chills said:

So if you want to do it then get the OSRAM H8 that is road legal in some European countries and the shunt kit, but you will still be risking your insurance cover.

 

 

I'll take that infinitesimal risk - I was present when the accessor went over my mothers Honda Jazz - a walk around, mileage check and he was on his way to the next one...........

46 minutes ago, Berisford said:

I'll take that infinitesimal risk - I was present when the accessor went over my mothers Honda Jazz - a walk around, mileage check and he was on his way to the next one...........

Then is is worth getting the Osram ones that are road legal in most of the EU https://www.osram.co.uk/ecat/LEDriving FL H8-H11-H16-LED fog lamps-Car lighting-Automotive/gb/en/GPS01_3146287/ZMP_4059212/

Data sheet  https://www.osram.co.uk/appsj/pdc/pdf.do?cid=GPS01_3146287&vid=MP_EUROPE_UK_eCat&lid=EN&mpid=ZMP_4059212

These will probably be the ones that become road legal in the UK, if any do.  Skoda might surprise us and out them in the 2025 Karoq facelift. Though Skoda Uk made no mention of it today. (6th Jan 2025)
You will need the shunts though https://www.osram.co.uk/ecat/Accessories for LED retrofit lamps-Car lighting-Automotive/gb/en/GPS01_2941742/

I would think that you are unlikely to be be stopped with them, and if you are it is more likely to be a warning as they are legal in most of Europe in a Karoq.
The only real risk is the insurance not paying out and you are happy with that risk

 

Edited 6 January, 20251 yr by chills

This is quite a song and dance about FOG LIGHTS from someone that does not often encounter FOG but seems to want more lighting up than the Full Beam can give when it is really really  dark like you get in the West Midlands region of England.   Well known for the Green Lanes and Off Road Routes. 

 

PS.

Insurance Assessors and Loss Adjusters and Vehicles Examiners do not treat a fender bender in the same way as an accident where there is loss of life of life changing injuries & possible millions of quids compensation claims.

Maybe not from motorists but the Family of a pedestrian or cyclist. 

Priority there might be looking for performance mods, tyres and maintenance and any thing gleaned from the ECU / Sat Nav etc. & not the lights, unless there is some question over dazzling others be them drivers or just road / pavement users.

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

5 hours ago, Ootohere said:

This is quite a song and dance about FOG LIGHTS from someone that does not often encounter FOG but seems to want more lighting up than the Full Beam can give when it is really really  dark like you get in the West Midlands region of England.   Well known for the Green Lanes and Off Road Routes. 

Yes, there are a LOT of rural roads in the midlands once you get out of the conurbations.  I live in a small place just outside Birmingham, not in the conurbation.   I also go into Shropshire and wales.

No street lights at all for large areas on A road through to lanes. 

However, I am not doing green lanes or off-road, otherwise it would not matter if they were road legal or not.

The fog light pattern illuminates low and wide, which is very useful on unlit winding lanes.

 

There is a big clampdown on street racing in Brum, which has been a problem, The racing not the clampdown :- )  Hence wanting only road legal lights as despite no other mods on my car from standard the police do have spot checks on cars in the winter for tyres and lights, also driving under alcohol (or drugs) and anything else they can spot.  

 

Edited 7 January, 20251 yr by chills

Front Fog lights or Auxiliary lights are not checked at UK MOT,s, but as it is that is 32- years away for you.

 

Fitting a LED Light bar without it being obvious when not lit is a simple solution to lighting up the way in front and switching on when required even when Full Beam is being used.

9 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Front Fog lights or Auxiliary lights are not checked at UK MOT,s, but as it is that is 32- years away for you.

 

Fitting a LED Light bar without it being obvious when not lit is a simple solution to lighting up the way in front and switching on when required even when Full Beam is being used.

Or even easier is swapping out the Front fog's for LED lamps.

Then you do not have Front Fog Lamps though & as it is they are the wrong reflectors. 

 

On 07/01/2025 at 12:47, Ootohere said:

Then you do not have Front Fog Lamps though & as it is they are the wrong reflectors. 

 

 

Not the wrong reflectors if you are using the specified OSRAM LED bulbs, as they are legal for use as replacement blubs in those reflectors in most of Europe.

 

BTW, your sig says    http://northcoast250.com    which is incorrect.  It is either the North Cost 500   or the North East 250 ;

 

Sorry it is North East 250 The Snow Roads. 

I never noticed the link was not working.  Rural Roads not as dark as the far side of the moon. 

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Rural Roads not as dark as the far side of the moon. 

Yes they are.  🙂