Hi all. 

 

Just hoping I can pick your brains really. I feel something maybe a miss with my car. 

 

I have a 2016 2.0 TDI 190 SEL manual transmission. It's well used with 145000 on the clock but has been fully serviced. 

 

I use the car to tow a 2018 elddis supreme 554 caravan.  The van is 1308kg empty and 1461kg is the maximum weight. 

 

The car can tow 2000kg according to the plate.

 

I struggle to get it to pull away cleanly. I have to ride the clutch some what, other wise it feels like it'll stall. If I try to pull away with more revs it just feels like a sponge sucking all the power and you get some odd vibrations when I bring the clutch up as well as a judder. 

 

With out the caravan I still struggle with pulling away. As you feed in the power and bring up the clutch the revs just drop and it feels like it would stall if I didn't dip the clutch. 

 

Weirdly I can pull it away just on the clutch and there is no judder. It don't feel like there is any slip, I do get a distinct judder if I'm in start stop traffic even without the van on the back.

 

By all accounts this car should be able to pull this van with not much issue but to me it's quite hard work. 

 

Once I'm on the move it's ok. Not quick but it'll sit on the motorway at 50-60mph. It won't accelerate in 6th. So I have to drop down to 5th or even 4th.

 

I'm obviously not expecting it to be a rocket ship with an extra 1.4 tons on the back but pulling away does worry me. Especially hills. I'm due to go to France this year. 

 

I just wondered if anyone tows with the same model of the 150 and could give me their thoughts on how there performs and also any thoughts about what could be wrong. Ie clutch or an engine issue. 

 

It's been to Skoda for for them to look at and  diagnostics and they couldn't find anything wrong in terms of fault codes and said to them it drove ok. The caravan was not present when they had it. 

 

Thanks. 

Adrian. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 January, 20251 yr by Itsrelfy

6th gear is a very tall ratio only suitable for cruising and light acceleration when unladen.

 

The pulling away from standstill is a problem with all diesels particularly turbo-diesels, the final drive ratio is already high for cruising at 2-2.5K rpm, first gear is not as low as a petrol engined variant due to the increased low down torque of the diesel and more specifically the limited rev range, a common low first gear ratio would leave a diesel vehicle accelerating turning across a junction needing to change gear before the manouevre is complete taking one hand off the wheel.

 

Unladen the diesel vehicle with the taller first gear will not struggle from a standing start but more care must be taken when feeding in the clutch to avoid a stall, laden becomes a big problem, either smoky clutch slipping and higher revs or stalling, I find it best to slow right down in advance and read the road ahead to try and avoid stopping at all costs on an incline.

I know my Yeti is not a real 4x4 but is physically capable (although not legally) of towing massive loads which I have done many times, when doing so and having to do a hill start with the diesel engine I miss having the low range gearbox of a proper 4x4 which would take all the stress away from both the clutch and myself!

Looks like I just need to accept it then. Just a pain when pulling away. I've managed several trips so far some a couple of hundred miles and some local trips and it's got us there and back so far so fingers crossed I don't come up against too many hill starts!!! Would a dsg make it a bit easier?

 

 

A tow match service gives this report on your Combination but says the 554 is an Avante and I used skoda superb 20tdi 190 because that was said first before you later typed 150

 

• The engine's performance is generally good on flat roads (performance score to compare 242 points).
• Speeds of 76 mph (123 km/h) to 81 mph (131 km/h) are often quite possible.
• There is a lot of power at low engine speeds (score to compare 287 points).
• Higher revs (1600 rpm) are usually not necessary on flat roads, under most circumstances.
• Acceleration from 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) is theoretically possible in 16.2 sec.
• In the mountains the performance is generally very good (score to compare 293 points).
• No problems are to be expected on steep mountain roads. Hill starts are possible on steep slopes up to 21%.
• On motorway inclines higher revs (2200 rpm) are needed.
• A speed of 68 mph (109 km/h) is usually possible on most motorway inclines.

https://towcar.info/outfitmatch.php

 

Good site but lives on donations if possible. But can be used for free. Worth a read of the full report to see if your experience is different for explaining to a garage.

Edited 26 January, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

25 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

A tow match service gives this report on your Combination but says the 554 is an Avante and I used skoda superb 20tdi 190 because that was said first before you later typed 150

 

• The engine's performance is generally good on flat roads (performance score to compare 242 points).
• Speeds of 76 mph (123 km/h) to 81 mph (131 km/h) are often quite possible.
• There is a lot of power at low engine speeds (score to compare 287 points).
• Higher revs (1600 rpm) are usually not necessary on flat roads, under most circumstances.
• Acceleration from 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) is theoretically possible in 16.2 sec.
• In the mountains the performance is generally very good (score to compare 293 points).
• No problems are to be expected on steep mountain roads. Hill starts are possible on steep slopes up to 21%.
• On motorway inclines higher revs (2200 rpm) are needed.
• A speed of 68 mph (109 km/h) is usually possible on most motorway inclines.

https://towcar.info/outfitmatch.php

 

Good site but lives on donations if possible. But can be used for free. Worth a read of the full report to see if your experience is different for explaining to a garage.

Once rolling it's ok. It's not going to win the fastest towing car award anytime soon but it can keep up with traffic on the motorway. It's just the pulling away. My biggest fear is having to stop on a hill. Just uncertain if it'll get rolling again. Last October we went to Dorset and we hit a bit of traffic near the new forest and we eventually stopped on a hill. I got it going again but the clutch got a bit smelly. I am debating getting a new clutch and flywheel fitted but as it don't seem to slip I'm not sure if it would improve anything. 

The "bit smelly" sounds like the clutch burning.

 

Do you use a motormover/the car/push it into position on site?

 

Does it move easily into position?

 

Maybe check the brakes for binding slightly on the caravan?

We have a motor mover yes. I don't think the brakes are binding. It can be pushed around by hand if needs be and seems to move quite freely. 

All modern clutches (asbestos free) have an awful smell with slippage transmitting large torque, it need only be a couple of seconds and the smell will hang around in the engine bay for weeks.

 

A few hill starts is not major wear on the clutch, if it was already worn you will soon notice slippage on upshifts to the higher gears when towing at speed or up hills.

 

Its just a horrible experience, we have memory, the clutch linings dont!

Sounds disappointing ... I have no experience with caravans but yes with a twin-axle car loader, which gets to sizeable weights sometimes.

I have only used it once with the Superb so this is not relevant, plus mine is with DSG, but I have towed over 1500kg with older A6 both petrol and Diesels, and the behaviour you report tells me the car is struggling off the start which is curious. Sometimes you do have to play with the feet with a manual, but if you are on the verge of clutch slipping and juddering and every start, then something is amiss.

Any way you can try your caravan with some friend's car, and him to try to pull - even in a parking lot - yours? Just to exclude, of just focus on, something wrong mechanically.

 

The DSG will take away the pedal guesswork, but I have also heard is not fantastically suited for towing ... although being in use since couple decades now ...

 

 

 

Edited 27 January, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

 

I dont think this car should have any issues pulling this weight. So I do think there is something wrong somewhere. I just don't know what so I don't know what to tell a mechanic. It's been to Skoda prior to my holiday last year and they said they couldn't find anything wrong. 

 

My thoughts are it's either down on power. But I have nothing to compare it to, or maybe there is something wrong in the transmission. 

 

I've watched so many videos and read lots of reviews and everyone says it's a competent tow car. It's also won awards for towing. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Itsrelfy said:

I dont think this car should have any issues pulling this weight. So I do think there is something wrong somewhere. I just don't know what so I don't know what to tell a mechanic. It's been to Skoda prior to my holiday last year and they said they couldn't find anything wrong. 

 

My thoughts are it's either down on power. But I have nothing to compare it to, or maybe there is something wrong in the transmission. 

 

I've watched so many videos and read lots of reviews and everyone says it's a competent tow car. It's also won awards for towing. 

 

 

I should add the car starts fine, there is no smoke. If it were down on power would I have any other signs? 

22 hours ago, Itsrelfy said:

Weirdly I can pull it away just on the clutch and there is no judder

 

Does sound like a car problem if this can happen but the "revs drop" when you add throttle.

 

Could be throttle position sensor or a fuel supply problem.

 

Any occurrences of a flat spot in driving or a delayed response to acceleration?

 

 

Edited 27 January, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

You are only soliciting a small amount of the available power when pulling away slipping the clutch, the revs dipping does sound like a flat spot or emissions related ECU intervention, try doing a hillstart on a very steep incline without the caravan to see if you feel the same thing to a lesser degree, the extra weight with the caravan could be highlighting a deficiency that is there all the time.

6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

You are only soliciting a small amount of the available power when pulling away slipping the clutch, the revs dipping does sound like a flat spot or emissions related ECU intervention, try doing a hillstart on a very steep incline without the caravan to see if you feel the same thing to a lesser degree, the extra weight with the caravan could be highlighting a deficiency that is there all the time.

 

That is what i am thinking too . From my experience pulling away with a caravan you are seriously feathering the throttle which you don't do in normal driving.

 

Pretty sure the car is "fly by wire" with a tps  so if that is faulty it would cause the issue and not be noticed as much without the Caravan.

Yes the car struggles on any hill with or without the van on the back. The problem is much worse when it's there though. I can drive my wife's car no problem all be it that's a petrol but still manual. I've only ever driven manuals. Have been for over 20 years so I don't think it's me. You get the initial bite then all the revs drop and it would stall. So then I have to dip the clutch and go again and then I have enough speed to bring the clutch right up. 

Hi,

Your last post does suggest a car problem. Certainly your experiences are not normal  for towing with a diesel Superb.

I have towed a 1350 kg caravan many miles in the UK and France over the last 10+ years with three different Superb diesel estates - a 2010 Mk2 170 (manual), a 2016 Mk3 190 (manual), and now a 2023 Mk3 FL 200 (DSG).

They have all been excellent towcars. In every case they will normally tow on level motorways in one gear below below the top gear, but there is always plenty of torque to accelerate, particularly if you drop another gear.

As regards hill starts, the only issue I have really had is controlling wheel-spin, as they have all been 2 wheel drivers.

However, as someone else has commented,  in more extreme conditions it is easy to get  a clutch smell, which does hang around for some time.

Best of luck in getting it sorted.

Cheers

Paul R T

I have to use a lot more revs doing a hillstart towing a very heavy load, an uncomfortable amount of revs and clutch slip, if the first gear ratio were lower it would not need it but that brings problems in every day driving as I described earlier which would not be acceptable.

36 minutes ago, Paul R T said:

Hi,

Your last post does suggest a car problem. Certainly your experiences are not normal  for towing with a diesel Superb.

I have towed a 1350 kg caravan many miles in the UK and France over the last 10+ years with three different Superb diesel estates - a 2010 Mk2 170 (manual), a 2016 Mk3 190 (manual), and now a 2023 Mk3 FL 200 (DSG).

They have all been excellent towcars. In every case they will normally tow on level motorways in one gear below below the top gear, but there is always plenty of torque to accelerate, particularly if you drop another gear.

As regards hill starts, the only issue I have really had is controlling wheel-spin, as they have all been 2 wheel drivers.

However, as someone else has commented,  in more extreme conditions it is easy to get  a clutch smell, which does hang around for some time.

Best of luck in getting it sorted.

Cheers

Paul R T

I'm having the car serviced in early February. I use to take it to Skoda but I'm now going to be taking it to a local garage. I'll talk to them and see if there is anything they suggest. 

 

I've also toyed with the idea of taking it to a place with a rolling road to see if there are any issues with the engine output. I'm guessing they'd be able to tell me. 

 

I've even had daft thoughts come into my head. I had the camera belt done in 2021 before I started towing a caravan. I wonder if they set the timing correctly before they changed the belt. I'm sure they did as it was done at Skoda. I'm not sure if being slightly off would allow the engine to run but deprived it of power. 

 

I'm not sure when the fuel filter was last replaced or air filter for that matter. As I say it's been fully serviced at Skoda so I'd hope this things have been done as a matter of course. I guess I could always check the air filter. 

 

As said before I'm in 2 minds about wether it's lacking power or torque or it's a transmission issue. Or both maybe. 

4 minutes ago, Itsrelfy said:

I've also toyed with the idea of taking it to a place with a rolling road to see if there are any issues with the engine output. I'm guessing they'd be able to tell me. 

 

You are using a fraction of the engines output so not a good idea.

 

4 minutes ago, Itsrelfy said:

I wonder if they set the timing correctly before they changed the belt.

 

The cam timing is done when fitting the new belt, I would bet my arm they screwed up and that is your problem, the loss of a small amount of torque and power at medium throttle openings and cruising is not so noticeable, pulling away from a standstill using partial throttle the loss would cause RPM drop and stalling.

 

I was going to ask if the cam belt had been changed recently.

16 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

You are using a fraction of the engines output so not a good idea.

 

 

The cam timing is done when fitting the new belt, I would bet my arm they screwed up and that is your problem, the loss of a small amount of torque and power at medium throttle openings and cruising is not so noticeable, pulling away from a standstill using partial throttle the loss would cause RPM drop and stalling.

 

I was going to ask if the cam belt had been changed recently.

Do you think if when I take it to the local in Feb for service I mention it to them they be able to take a look? I assume any decent mechanic would be able to tell? 

Ask them, not what I think.

I'm thinking maybe a problem with the clutch position sensor/switch?

 

If you sit at idle with clutch fully depressed & slowly release the clutch pedal, the clutch switch should trigger the ECU to increase the idle speed/revs slightly to prepare the

Engine for a pull away.

 

Does your car do this? 

 

It should happen before the bite point of the clutch.

 

A modern diesel (without the caravan) should happily pull away without any accelerator pedal input just by gently feeding the clutch even on a slope as the idle controller maintains the minimum engine speed.