This is a follow up to a previous question I posed recently.

I had a 2008 vRS for over 12 years and really loved it before moving on to something different. Looking to getting back into vRS ownership again and toying with the idea of finding one with the 4x4 drive train.

 

If anyone has been able to compare the two, is there a noticeable improvement in road handling with this variant?

Thanks

Handling? Not really. You'll do a better 0-60 time than a non-AWD TDI, but that's about it - I'll take my LSD any day of the week. AWD does help cars put the power down better, but unless you're 'handling' at 25mph, or in snow, the TDI doesn't have enough power for this to make much of a difference.

I wanted a Cupra ST, but that's because I like doing 0-60 and wanted to take it over 400bhp. Even with 350bhp, my Octavia did very well, except for launch (which was hilarious). AWD does have handling advantages, but on a track, or on the edge of grip - not something I imagine you'll be doing in a TDI on a potholed B road.

So yes, having AWD does give an improvement over FWD, but on a 350bhp+ car on a track - you won't be able to notice it in a sub-200bhp Octavia. For handling, RWD>FWD>AWD. AWD is boring.

Thanks for response OccyVRS.

I've seen a few around as I trawl through Autotrader and often wondered. Used to have a Mk 2 vRS so know what they're capable of.

You should drive a more modern 2WD with the VAQ diff which obviously helps. I came from a Subaru so had a direct 4WD to FWD switch. I do think the Skoda would be awesome with the GolfR power train but it’s pretty good for most things except a wet standing start.

17 minutes ago, whippersnapper said:

You should drive a more modern 2WD with the VAQ diff which obviously helps. I came from a Subaru so had a direct 4WD to FWD switch. I do think the Skoda would be awesome with the GolfR power train but it’s pretty good for most things except a wet standing start.

They did - it's called the Superb 280. If you want and AWD vRS, it's called a Golf R Estate/Cupra ST.

The LSD makes my car handle far better than it has any business to. Is it a GTI TCR? No, but for a FWD MQB saloon, it does a very good job of pretending to be a hot hatch. That being said, it's not magic - I've yet to launch my car with any success, 245ps or 350ps. Frankly, below 30mph it does struggle a bit - but that's just FWD or RWD in a nutshell.

1 hour ago, OccyVRS said:

They did - it's called the Superb 280. If you want and AWD vRS, it's called a Golf R Estate/Cupra ST.

The LSD makes my car handle far better than it has any business to. Is it a GTI TCR? No, but for a FWD MQB saloon, it does a very good job of pretending to be a hot hatch. That being said, it's not magic - I've yet to launch my car with any success, 245ps or 350ps. Frankly, below 30mph it does struggle a bit - but that's just FWD or RWD in a nutshell.

True but the Superb is heavier and not anywhere as sporty. The current Superb has the same engine as the RS and apart from the 0-100km/h sprint is slower than the Octavia. In the end a different kind of vehicle.

2 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

They did - it's called the Superb 280. If you want and AWD vRS, it's called a Golf R Estate/Cupra ST.

The LSD makes my car handle far better than it has any business to. Is it a GTI TCR? No, but for a FWD MQB saloon, it does a very good job of pretending to be a hot hatch. That being said, it's not magic - I've yet to launch my car with any success, 245ps or 350ps. Frankly, below 30mph it does struggle a bit - but that's just FWD or RWD in a nutshell.

Dogbone mount?
Suspension? (less movement when loaded)

I got 13.8s quarter one time I was convinced to go down to the pod and that was a first try, novice not even trying, nothing removed from the car and with std suspension etc on that attempt.
That matched almost a mate with a VXR6.2L so it couldn't be that bad to launch!

Having had a vRS 220 and now a Scout (184 / dsg / 4x4) vRS but sat higher, I can't comment on the effectiveness of the VAQ in the newer petrol vRS's but in everyday driving having owned each for a year I'd take the 4x4 any day.

15 hours ago, whippersnapper said:

True but the Superb is heavier and not anywhere as sporty. The current Superb has the same engine as the RS and apart from the 0-100km/h sprint is slower than the Octavia. In the end a different kind of vehicle.

If you’re attempting 0-100km/h times then you’ve bought the wrong car! Plus, I think @travs may disagree on the sporty part.

14 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

Dogbone mount?
Suspension? (less movement when loaded)

I got 13.8s quarter one time I was convinced to go down to the pod and that was a first try, novice not even trying, nothing removed from the car and with std suspension etc on that attempt.
That matched almost a mate with a VXR6.2L so it couldn't be that bad to launch!

Yes, but the lower dogbone mount does also ruin compliance and nothing you do will stop the wheel hop. I love my car, but standing starts are never good. I think mine would be dropped by my mates R32, and that’s 100bhp down and 20 years older.

38 minutes ago, matt_theforce said:

Having had a vRS 220 and now a Scout (184 / dsg / 4x4) vRS but sat higher, I can't comment on the effectiveness of the VAQ in the newer petrol vRS's but in everyday driving having owned each for a year I'd take the 4x4 any day.

I don’t think the standard vRS really has enough power for an AWD system to make a difference - standing start aside. The FWD is more engaging, and results in less drivetrain loss. I’ve had mine up against a mate’s A45s and, to be fair, wasn’t instantly dropped - which is very impressive.

I’ll agree they’re different cars. It’s not as if the Superb is a S-class luxobarge though. It’s bigger and will be heavier but it’s the same chassis and same lack of refinement and sound-deafening compared to Seat upwards.

Mine is the L&K so old-man version rather than Sportline Plus but there’s not much aside from ride height in the handling department.

Either way, it’s definitely built more for a motorway slip road than b-road.

But @OccyVRS makes a good observation. I looked for Petrol AWD Auto. Had they made an Estate AWD Octavia like the Golf and Leon I probably would have had that. Or at least considered it.

Golf R Avant 😉

5 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

If you’re attempting 0-100km/h times then you’ve bought the wrong car! Plus, I think @travs may disagree on the sporty part.

Yes, but the lower dogbone mount does also ruin compliance and nothing you do will stop the wheel hop. I love my car, but standing starts are never good. I think mine would be dropped by my mates R32, and that’s 100bhp down and 20 years older.

I don’t think the standard vRS really has enough power for an AWD system to make a difference - standing start aside. The FWD is more engaging, and results in less drivetrain loss. I’ve had mine up against a mate’s A45s and, to be fair, wasn’t instantly dropped - which is very impressive.

I certainly didn’t buy it for standing starts. I’ve used the launch control once just to try it out. It is a surprisingly brisk car once rolling though. And that was the point I was making the Superb is in the low to mid 5s for the standing start but the Octavia is faster once rolling so it isn’t that bad. Helped by being relatively light for a modern car and wihout all the driveline losses. Just goes to show how little stats on a piece of paper can mean at times. The problem I have on my motorcycles is just how damn quick they are to the point where you can hardly even enjoy them in a sporting manner on the road. The Octavia you can drive hardish without being at warp speed in an instant.

6 hours ago, Cairus said:

Golf R Avant 😉

Cupra R ST > Cupra 300 ST > Golf R Estate

4 hours ago, whippersnapper said:

I certainly didn’t buy it for standing starts. I’ve used the launch control once just to try it out. It is a surprisingly brisk car once rolling though. And that was the point I was making the Superb is in the low to mid 5s for the standing start but the Octavia is faster once rolling so it isn’t that bad. Helped by being relatively light for a modern car and wihout all the driveline losses. Just goes to show how little stats on a piece of paper can mean at times. The problem I have on my motorcycles is just how damn quick they are to the point where you can hardly even enjoy them in a sporting manner on the road. The Octavia you can drive hardish without being at warp speed in an instant.

Bikes are a different ball game. Fastest I've been on is an MV Dragster RR, and that was utter insanity. Someone I know rides an M1000RR... on the road...

I would say the feel of a car is far more important. The Octavia vRS is a reasonably soggy car - especially compared to something like an i30N or GTI CS. Even the normal GTI feels tighter at the back, and more composed. That said, the Octavia doesn't feel wayward or unstable, and the Golf is by no means uncomfortable on long journeys like the i30N is. They're all the same, or similar, on paper - 250bhp to 300bhp DCT hot hatches, yet they couldn't feel more different.

The vRS isn't perfect, but as someone that needs a car to sit happily for thirteen hours to Scotland, it's absolutely perfect for me - whether I'm doing that drive, or hooning around the mountains once there. Personally, I like that it's a bigger car, but still retains the chuckabilty of a hatchback. Something like an S4 or whatever, defintely feels bigger. Not slower, but you are aware of that extra weight.

@OccyVRS But only the Golf have rear twin Differenzial

Edited 7 July7 Jul by Cairus

1 hour ago, Cairus said:

@OccyVRS But only the Golf have rear twin Differenzial

Not sure what you are referring to but RS3, S3, Formentor VZ / VZ5, Leon Sporttourer and Golf R hav the same rear diff

4 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

Cupra R ST > Cupra 300 ST > Golf R Estate

Bikes are a different ball game. Fastest I've been on is an MV Dragster RR, and that was utter insanity. Someone I know rides an M1000RR... on the road...

I would say the feel of a car is far more important. The Octavia vRS is a reasonably soggy car - especially compared to something like an i30N or GTI CS. Even the normal GTI feels tighter at the back, and more composed. That said, the Octavia doesn't feel wayward or unstable, and the Golf is by no means uncomfortable on long journeys like the i30N is. They're all the same, or similar, on paper - 250bhp to 300bhp DCT hot hatches, yet they couldn't feel more different.

The vRS isn't perfect, but as someone that needs a car to sit happily for thirteen hours to Scotland, it's absolutely perfect for me - whether I'm doing that drive, or hooning around the mountains once there. Personally, I like that it's a bigger car, but still retains the chuckabilty of a hatchback. Something like an S4 or whatever, defintely feels bigger. Not slower, but you are aware of that extra weight.

couldn't agree more. My car mostly burbles around the burbs. Only occasionally does it get used in any anger and then in Sport mode with ESC in Sport mode it is a fun, brisk sporting car. I would't want anything quicker and most things more capable on a back road would be noticeably worse as a car to drive around town in ancient fit stuff into the back of it.

9 minutes ago, whippersnapper said:

Not sure what you are referring to but RS3, S3, Formentor VZ / VZ5, Leon Sporttourer and Golf R hav the same rear diff

It would be news to me that the Leon Sport Tourer had the twin differential, as did the 5-cylinder Audi and Cupra models, the R models, and the Mercedes A-Class AMG.

4 minutes ago, Cairus said:

It would be news to me that the Leon Sport Tourer had the twin differential, as did the 5-cylinder Audi and Cupra models, the R models, and the Mercedes A-Class AMG.

In the facelift the rs3 and golf r only diff was added to a bunch of other models

We are the developer and manufacturer of this differential. It would be news to me if other models now had this differential.

My understanding is that the previous generations of cars (8Y S3, RS3, Mk8 R, etc) simply use Haldex - made by Borg Warner.

The newer generation cars, IIRC, do away with this and instead use a “torque splitter”. It’s still made by BW, but once the power is sent to the back, uses clutch packs to split the power between the rear wheels. They don’t market it as Haldex, but it’s essentially the same system, with a VAQ differential at the back.

I’m not sure what cars have it - I know the R, S3 and RS3 do.

Incorrect information. The Golf 7 already had the twin differential, as did the old S3, etc. The twin differential is a pure Magna Powertrain development. VW and Mercedes simply had the exclusive rights. The new version is currently being offered by us.

7 hours ago, Cairus said:

Incorrect information. The Golf 7 already had the twin differential, as did the old S3, etc. The twin differential is a pure Magna Powertrain development. VW and Mercedes simply had the exclusive rights. The new version is currently being offered by us.

Maybe we are talking about different things? I’m talking about the torque splitter rear diff first seen on the GolfR and RS3. In the recent facelift this is is fitted to the S3 ad various Formentors snd Leon Sport tourers

This

8 hours ago, Cairus said:

Incorrect information. The Golf 7 already had the twin differential, as did the old S3, etc. The twin differential is a pure Magna Powertrain development. VW and Mercedes simply had the exclusive rights. The new version is currently being offered by us.

So they do - I've just spoken to some people and yep, rear diff on the 8V S3 and Mk7 R.

Bugger. Makes me want a Cupra 300 ST even more.

4 hours ago, Cairus said:

This

Can you clarify?

1) Is this what was once only in the RS3 and Golf R

2) If it's not now in the facelift S3, performance Cupra Formentor and Sports Tourer models what is? Because they certainly claim a torque splitting rear differential.

3) Who is "us" ?

Edited 8 July8 Jul by whippersnapper