Asked this question in the general forum but now realize its proper place is here:

Ordered the Oettinger chip entirely on faith, so will have to see. On paper it looks good, but does anyone know what it really brings in terms of 0-60 or more importantly 50-80? There are no Skodas mentioned on the Oettinger site (yet), so which other VAG car compares best? The A3? I picked the upgrade with no other mods, so that's the one that is carefully sold as the "195bhp" upgrade, which in reality will amount to 205-215bhp depending on the actual block's quality, I'm told by several Dutch customers that had their performance measured on rolling equipment.

(Had to go with the Oettinger chip as it is the only one the Dutch Skoda importer will accept without revoking full warranty - company car, you see. Still, it adds 55-65bhp to the downtuned 150hp engine for roughly the same price you would pay for adding 25-35bhp to the 180hp RS engine. So it's actually pretty cheap!)

Is anyone here familiar with Oettinger?

Thanks,

Matt

Matt

I know Oettinger by reputation only , they have been tuning VWs for years now (If i remember rightly they even done some bits for the 'real' Beetle , the aircooled one!) They are a well respected tuner , your car should be great! Im not sure if you know , but the 193 bhp option that the 150 bhp engine is tuned to , is said to be the same output as a stock RS..ie the 180 BHP figure is a tad 'conservative.' !!

Im not sure if you know , but the 193 bhp option that the 150 bhp engine is tuned to , is said to be the same output as a stock RS..ie the 180 BHP figure is a tad 'conservative.' !!

That's not what I was told - by other owners, mind you, not the dealer!

They said the 193bhp figure was conservative too, to prevent owners with a haphazard bad engine block from claiming Oettinger produces bad software - and that the actual output usually came closer to 205-210bhp and sometimes even 215bhp.

I see the same story at SKN: a huge upgrade from the 150 engine (which is in fact a downtuned 180, but with the same turbo) to 195bhp and a small upgrade for the 180 engine to 195bhp for the same price - as it's actually the same basic block getting the same end result.

Matt

A while ago on VW Vortex , just after I had bought my RS , several people were getting their cars chipped. One of these people was told by the tuner that done their car (Jabbasport maybe or Superchips..cant remember offhand) that in their 'before mods' power run , the RS Octavias they had dyno'd had all been giving out at least 190 bhp as standard , most of them were between 192 and 195 BHP , so maybe the 195BHP you were quoted is similarly conservative!

Matt

I know Oettinger by reputation only , they have been tuning VWs for years now (If i remember rightly they even done some bits for the 'real' Beetle , the aircooled one!) They are a well respected tuner , your car should be great! Im not sure if you know , but the 193 bhp option that the 150 bhp engine is tuned to , is said to be the same output as a stock RS..ie the 180 BHP figure is a tad 'conservative.' !![/quote:41a0982e4d]

Well, I had a similar experience with my 2WD Octavia 1.8T (150hp)-2001 model tuned by ABT, which is officially represented by Skoda here in Greece. The promised power figure is 193hp, but on dyno (rolling road) we saw 210hp. Similar experience had another colleague writing in the site; Fast&Safe (212hp I think). Therefore, all these well reputed tuners for VAG (since early '80s; I had a second hand VW Sciroco GTI tuned by ABT in 1987 with 145hp :shock: ) give quite conservative figures on both power and torque for the 1.8T engine, and the owners are nicely surprised when visiting the dyno :lol: 8) .

As for the Octavia RS's engine, which is exactly the same in terms of the block the cars seem to achieve similar power by ABT, which is for the RS 210hp (promised). However, once I heard from a guy with an RS chipped by ABT that dynotest showed 235hp :shock: :shock: :shock: just after the chip (I haven't seen the dynotest diagram). The key issue is that the KO3 turbine used in the 150hp Octavia is not the same as the KO3 turbine in the RS. The KO3 RS turbine looks like a KO4 (not the same), and that's probably the answer to the possible increased power with the same chip. And believe it, I was told that (with Fast&Safe) by Hans Dahlback,when he visited Greece last November for a demonstration of his Golf RSI in a motorshow. He was claiming that with a chip that he had prepared the Octavia RS was touching 240hp without any other mods.

Can anyone find the actual codes of the KO3 turbines used in the 150hp Octavias versus the 180hp Octavia RS??? That would be very important to know. 8)

Chris

As far as I understood from several Seat Leon owners using the Golf IV platform 150/180 unit that's also in the Octavia, the A3 and the Golf GTI (as opposed to the Polo platform 150/156 unit that is found in the Ibiza Cupra, amongst others) the 150 and 180 Octavias have exactly the same engines and same turbos - it's just that the 150 has been electronically downtuned. (Although I recognize that the K03 turbo comes in different shapes and forms, as Chris says.)

That's why several tuners ask the same price for upgrading a 150/180 standard at 150bhp to 195/200bhp as they do for a 150/180 standard at 180bhp. For instance, SKN does both for the same slightly-under-1000 euros. Here's an example of what a Dutch tuning company provides as a complete kit based on the 210bhp SKN chip:

http://www.tuningparts.nl/shop/shopping/contents.php?id=3

Never mind the Dutch language, you'll understand the important words

Can someone confirm or rubbish this idea?

The key issue is that the KO3 turbine used in the 150hp Octavia is not the same as the KO3 turbine in the RS.[/quote:9e534c5d90]

But does that apply to the 4x4? My understanding is that the 4x4 and RS have the same engine mechanicals and that the extra power of the latter comes from different programming of the ECU.

While we are talking about ECUs, how many black boxes control the petrol Octavias' engine? :?

Fuse 10 = Petrol engine - control unit.

Fuse 29 = Petrol engine - engine electronics, ignition

Fuse 32 = Petrol engine - injectors

Fuse 34 = Petrol engine - engine electronics

Fuse 43 = Petrol engine - engine electronics

Fuse 47 = Petrol engine - injectors

Fuse 49 = Petrol engine - engine electronics

Fuse 58 = Petrol engine - engine electronics

The key issue is that the KO3 turbine used in the 150hp Octavia is not the same as the KO3 turbine in the RS.

But does that apply to the 4x4? My understanding is that the 4x4 and RS have the same engine mechanicals and that the extra power of the latter comes from different programming of the ECU.

Denis: that's exactly my understanding - see above. Hence the "free" 30bhp gained with an identical chip upgrade...

Matt

Thanks for that confirmation. I had missed the significance of 'downtuned' in your earlier post.

A while back I had a short chat with a fella from APR, his findings and experinces were quite interesting, although no phyiscal evidence presented.

So he said that he found the Skoda's to outperform similar VAG 1.8T cars due soley to the front end design, the skoda's are slighlty less aerodynamic and as a result are driving more air into the bay and this results in a few extra bhp here and there.

That's it, would be nice to see a cross the board comparison at a RR one day of chips/cars etc, see if the comment has some validity.

Matt

Thanks for that confirmation. I had missed the significance of 'downtuned' in your earlier post.[/quote:e5ebf440ec]

DGW & Dutch 4X4,

Well the 150 and 180hp engines in the Octavia Elegance/4x4 and RS, respectively, come out from different tuning in the ECU (actually, the 150hp emerges from downtuning the 180hp engine).

However, I'm pretty sure that the extra 10-15 hp found on dynotests of the standard RS are a result of a slightly modified KO3 turbine (which is the same as in the Leon 1.8T-180hp) compared to other VAG cars (with the KO3): Audis A3/A4, VW Passat/Bora/Golf GTI 1.8T, Octavia 1.8T Elegance/4x4.

As I've heard, the difference is based in the different cartridge, which in the RS's KO3 is the same as that of the KO4 cartridge, while all other dimensions are the same. This is probably more in tuned rather than standard cars, and the RS with this different KO3 turbine gets most with a simple chip [similar observations have been described with the Seat Leon 1.8T-180hp (actual power of standard car is 195hp, as we have seen here in Greece on dynos).

Does anyone known how can we find the code part number of the RS's KO3 and the other Octavias' KO3s???

Thanks,

Chris

Well, I had a similar experience with my 2WD Octavia 1.8T (150hp)-2001 model tuned by ABT, which is officially represented by Skoda here in Greece. The promised power figure is 193hp, but on dyno (rolling road) we saw 210hp.

As for the Octavia RS's engine, which is exactly the same in terms of the block the cars seem to achieve similar power by ABT, which is for the RS 210hp (promised). However, once I heard from a guy with an RS chipped by ABT that dynotest showed 235hp

Chris: I see your point about the KO3 - but I guess we are talking about two separate things here, or actually three...

DGW and I were talking about the 150/180 engine having the same internals, with the 150 actually downgraded 30hp, as you confirm - with the result that the same chip upgrade will give 4x4 cars an extra "free" 30hp. I've seen companies offer kits from 150 to (let's say) 210 and from 180 to 210 for almost the same or even exactly the same price! This can only be explained by the downgrade to 150 "disappearing" through the upgrade. After all, you both get the same 210 software on top of the same basic engine...

The second thing is that several companies, especially those officially supported by some importers - like ABT and Oettinger - are giving very conservative quotes for their upgrades. Your ABT story echoes my Oettinger story: 193 is the promised figure but several owners and the dealer's workshop boss from his experience, are quoting 205 to 215 on the rolling road, so 210 on average, which is the same figure that other unsupported companies offer. Now I wonder - do these unsupported companies also give conservative quotes or is it what-they-quote-is-what-you-get? In other words, are ABT and Oettinger actually cheaper than they are on first looks? If so, it would make me feel even better about selecting the upgrade that won't affect my warranty

The third issue is the one you raise with the adapted KO3 turbo. I won't argue with that, given the dyno results you mentioned of several otherwise unmodified RSs. Would this also explain the better-than-factory-figures 0-60 performance that some RS cars have achieved in road tests? I've seen close to 7s... Makes me very curious of what I will achieve in a heavier 4x4. Under 8?

Oh, on another note: I see torque being expressed in lb ft here. How does that relate to our metric Nm?

D4x4,

Evening, as you know I have a 4x4 was 150, same chip as fitted to the vRS models (diff engine code though, same pgm really) I obtained 207BHP/245ft/lbs Torque then updated the software to get somewhere in the 222bhp/250ft/lbs Torque.

FYI multiply ft/lbs torque by 1.356 to get NetwonM

I seem to recall that theres a limit (might be very very wrong here) on what they can chip your car to...where **** when you need him, anyway I think it's in the 190 marker, but you mayget more, just a band of performance modification...actually this sounds like tosh, but I got it from somewhere.

There is of course the drive after "chipping" I'll hold my hands up and say that Ian's remap feels better, more urgent maybe initially. End of the day there both APR & JABBA about the same on paper, don't know, given my time over, maybe I would of held out for Jabba. Hindsight eh..wonderfull, never know till it's RR lvl playing field.

Re times, well; more news on Sunday evening, but I'm hoping for mid to high sixes, expect to see 7.1/2 s the gear changes will be less than pretty. More interested in the 30-100 bracket, but of course will have to make that 30-70.

Third gear is your friend.

I think the two areas, circa 195bhp and 220bhp are a result of two things....

VVT and K03(

The earlier non-VVT engines with the KO3(a) seem to get around 195 after the chip, with the VVT \K03( engines doing better.

Seem to recall the K03( is a K04 impeller in a K03 housing, or vice versa....

Of course, before seeing your car, a tuner cannot always *know* for sure which engine you have, so will probably quote the lower figure.

That said, even when Jabba knew my car was VVT, they still said "we'll hit around 200-210...." First mapping gave 209bhp (rolling road) which I was overjoyed about, then further tweaking (inc new (standard) airfilter and decent optimax, long story) brought it up to 222, at which point I gave a Homer-esque "woohoo" and grinned like the proverbial cheshire cat.

We don't know the exact figures for Colin's (Colin, get a RR session done! ), but it's very similar on road, I think the difference he feels in driving mine is that Jabba place a small "peak" in boost (still in safe limits) as the turbo comes in, to overcome the inertia and start the turbo spinning. Still very very happy with the Jabba remap, done 25k since then with no problems, good fuel economy, and a lot of smiles!

I think the "quoted figures" is a good indication of the approach of the tuner, if they quote low and get your booking, then give you more you will leave happy, you would hate to be expecting one figure and come away with less. Any tuner that did not meet quoted figures would not last long.

I think the two areas, circa 195bhp and 220bhp are a result of two things....

VVT and K03(

The earlier non-VVT engines with the KO3(a) seem to get around 195 after the chip, with the VVT \K03( engines doing better.

Seem to recall the K03( is a K04 impeller in a K03 housing, or vice versa....[/quote:a2e63a476b]

Exactly!!! I absolutely agree!! I also agree with what has Dutch 4x4 writen and clarified thinks.

VVT is important in tuning, since most tuners claim that this gives some extra hp; about 5-15hp. My own Octavia Elegance 2WD 1.8T is a 2001 model (AUM engine code), and I would be interested to know whether it has VVT?

Moreover, the KO3 (called b by "Tavia 4x4") is modified in the RS. The cartridge (must be what you call impeller) of the KO3( is that of the KO4, while housing (in other words external dimensions) is the same as in the original KO3(a). I have heard figures of 235hp after simply an ABT chip officially promissing 210hp :shock:

Does anyone know how can we find the code part number of the KO3(?

Thanks,

Chris

Chris

VVT or not is covered in our FAQ Section here:

http://www.briskoda.net/FAQ+index-myfaq-yes-id_cat-2-categories-Skoda+Technical-parent_id-0.html#19

Please let us know what you discover idc.

Matt

A converter which includes Nm to lbs/ft, L/100km to MPG (Imperial and US), and gallons to litres is in the Car Mechanical Reference section of our links here:

http://www.briskoda.net/Web_Links+index-req-visit-lid-181.html

We aim to please.

The third issue is the one you raise with the adapted KO3 turbo. I won't argue with that, given the dyno results you mentioned of several otherwise unmodified RSs. Would this also explain the better-than-factory-figures 0-60 performance that some RS cars have achieved in road tests? I've seen close to 7s... Makes me very curious of what I will achieve in a heavier 4x4. Under 8?[/quote:6defb794fa]

Dutch4x4,

The performance tests of Octavia 1.8T-4x4 tuned by ABT (about 210hp) in car magazines have shown the following:

0-100 km/h: 7sec (7.1-7.2 sec for the Combi 4x4 :shock: )

0-160 km/h: 18sec

0-400 m: 15sec

0-1000 m: 27.7sec

Therefore, the 0-100 figures of your Octavia 4x4 with the Oettinger chip (similar to the achievements of the ABT chip, as we discussed) will be much better than 8sec; I guess it will very likely be 7 or low 7's sec.

Do you or anyone in the forum know if the injectors between the 2WD and 4x4 Octavia (with the known 150hp engine) are the same or have the same capacity?

Chris

Good luck,

Chris

or anyone in the forum know if the injectors between the 2WD and 4x4 Octavia (with the known 150hp engine) are the same or have the same capacity?

[/quote:1513c1e94f]

They run the same injectors (AUQ and ARX).

0-100 km/h: 7sec (7.1-7.2 sec for the Combi 4x4 )

[/quote:1513c1e94f]

Thats sounds about right for 210, I've done 7.2 on a stopwatch in the wet(ie should be able to better it) with 222, will tell you more when we've done some AP22 timing runs tomorrow.

..and for torque I have just over 313NM, hey, thats a higher figure than in lb ft!

Off to quote the european standard then!

oh, and k03(a) and k03( are not (I doubt) the genuine part numbers, I just use that to distinguish them.

:oops:

The performance tests of Octavia 1.8T-4x4 tuned by ABT (about 210hp) in car magazines have shown the following:

0-100 km/h: 7sec (7.1-7.2 sec for the Combi 4x4 :shock: )

0-160 km/h: 18sec

0-400 m: 15sec

0-1000 m: 27.7sec

Therefore, the 0-100 figures of your Octavia 4x4 with the Oettinger chip (similar to the achievements of the ABT chip, as we discussed) will be much better than 8sec; I guess it will very likely be 7 or low 7's sec.

Thanks, Chris. Those are impressive figures :shock:

Tavia4x4: cool torque figure (in Nms!), seems about right compared with what I heard for 210bhp, which was around 300 Nm.

So I bet that the 30-70 acceleration (the useful daily-life one) will be equally impressive...

Which brings me to another question, as the car will be chipped from the start: how gently should I break it in?

VVT or not is covered in our FAQ Section here:

Thanks for the directions.

Never too old to learn - didn't know that VAG had also gone the VVT route, but I'm very familiar with Honda's i-VTEC and Toyota's VVTi, both of them extremely impressive technologies.

Never seen it linked to a turbo, though, but I can see how variable cam profiles would help increase the effect of optimized engine management of a turbo engine 8)

They run the same injectors (AUQ and ARX).[/quote:b0fc8cb733]

Well, O.K.! I think that apart from AUQ (Octavia RS) and ARX (Octavia 4x4), all other 1.8T-VAG cars since 2000 run with uprated injectors, and this upgrade had to do more with the introduction of electronically guided throttle. As anticipated, Octavia 4x4 and RS, which are 2001+ models will have the upgraded injectors.

As for my own Octavia 1.8T-2WD (engine code AUM), which is a mid 2001, I have heard from the dealer that it comes with all the upgrades that have been introduced in 2000.

Please correct me if I am wrong!

Chris

Further to the debate about tunability of the 4x4 v RS, and whether they have the same turbo (which has yet to be answered), on their new web site Jabbasport quote the following power increase figures for remapping:

Octavia 4x4

1999-2000........150bhp........throttle cable, nonVVT........196-205bhp

2000-2000........150bhp........fly-by-wire...........................212-225bhp

2000-present....150bhp........fly-by-wire, VVT...................216-228bhp

Octavia RS

2000-present.....180bhp........fly-by-wire, VVT..................218-232bhp

Would a modified turbo on the RS really give such little gain over the 4x4 with remapping, ie 2-4bhp?

Jabbasport's new web site is in our links and also here:

http://www.jabbasport.com/