Hmm, Impure thoughts about a hybrid Felicia/Fabia lump...

[pinkskud]

i'm just pi$$ed of cuv i missed all the fun, but your right, tis nice to have threads about "propper" tuning. still not found somewere to get me a cam from.

[WoodieGuthrie]

i'm just pi$$ed of cuv i missed all the fun, but your right, tis nice to have threads about "propper" tuning. still not found somewere to get me a cam from.

what cam you needing? what engine and I'll see what I can do!

[pinkskud]

1.6 aee.

going down the pub now. i'm looking for somewere in the bedford, MK, sort of area. cool if you could help.

[WoodieGuthrie]

1.6 aee.

going down the pub now. i'm looking for somewere in the bedford, MK, sort of area. cool if you could help.

JHM Butt and co (01302 710868)

got a stock cam listing as 032109101S at £128

as for performance ones..

DNA Tuning - Volkwagen Polo (6N)

VW Polo 1.6 75 HP - Abt high performance camshaft Abt power increase up to app. 90 HP - adjustable Abt camshaft wheel - machined throttle Body (not AEE) - Abt sport airfilter - optimised electronic engine management (ECU) £595.00

I've emailed TSR to see what the have in stock, as its a dub engine...

Kent list this

Supersports2500-700011.5311.53285 Deg 33/72 72/33110 Deg 0.00I 1.98mmCF38

[ugluk]

I pretend to work in IT, net abuse is part of my job description

[TeflonTom]

Kent list this

Supersports2500-700011.5311.53285 Deg 33/72 72/33110 Deg 0.00I 1.98mmCF38

that is way too long a duration for road use..... the magnetti mareli 1av using a map sensor like on the aee engine doesn't like long duration cams becuase it causes big reversion pulses in the intake which throws the map sensor off slighty

i's suggest going for a cam around 260-270 degrees

[TeflonTom]

whats the emerald like to work with? most of the BMW boys I know (doin all sorts of tasty installs!) use MegaSquirt. think its nearly as flexible and cheaper?

the emerald m3dk ecu is a masterpiece in itself.... it does both inejction and igintion (unlike the megasquirt) and it will also handle wasted spark applications too... the software is good too, and it also does data logging.... plus it's really simple to wire up.. costs about

[WoodieGuthrie]

that is way too long a duration for road use..... the magnetti mareli 1av using a map sensor like on the aee engine doesn't like long duration cams becuase it causes big reversion pulses in the intake which throws the map sensor off slighty

i's suggest going for a cam around 260-270 degrees

Was unaware what application he needed it for- they did list others:D

[WoodieGuthrie]

the emerald m3dk ecu is a masterpiece in itself.... it does both inejction and igintion (unlike the megasquirt) and it will also handle wasted spark applications too... the software is good too, and it also does data logging.... plus it's really simple to wire up.. costs about

[pinkskud]

my, woodie you have been a busy boy.

thanks for all that. as tom said (we'v been through this befor) i'm looking for around the 260 270 mark. its for fast road use, and i need to pass an mot with it.

[WoodieGuthrie]

GS1

Sports 2000-6000 10.82 9.98 280 Deg 30/70 70/30 110 Deg 0.30 I 2.10mm N/A

GS1H

Sports Injection 1500-6000 11.17 11.17 266 Deg 21/65 65/21 112 Deg 0.00 I 1.37mm CF38

GS2H

Sports ' R ' 2000-6500 11.32 11.32 270 Deg 25/65 65/25 110 Deg 0.00 I 1.55mm CF38

any better?

[pinkskud]

he he, this is better than google.

good work my man. now next question is, can i by direct from kent? if not then who??? i think carnossur do them but i wont deal with them!!!! long story. w4nkers!!!!

[Tech1e]

I've emailed TSR to see what the have in stock, as its a dub engine...

They back in business then? TSR went bust ages ago, see Leeboys threads.

[TeflonTom]

GS1

Sports 2000-6000 10.82 9.98 280 Deg 30/70 70/30 110 Deg 0.30 I 2.10mm N/A

GS1H

Sports Injection 1500-6000 11.17 11.17 266 Deg 21/65 65/21 112 Deg 0.00 I 1.37mm CF38

GS2H

Sports ' R ' 2000-6500 11.32 11.32 270 Deg 25/65 65/25 110 Deg 0.00 I 1.55mm CF38

any better?

woodie, do you know at what lift those measurements are taken?? noramlly it's 0.1mm for hydraulic lifter engines, but other manufactureres measure it at the last point so the timing figures become a little confusing

iirc piper also do one which is around 254 degrees which imho would be alot better for fast road

[pinkskud]

woodie, do you know at what lift those measurements are taken?? noramlly it's 0.1mm for hydraulic lifter engines, but other manufactureres measure it at the last point so the timing figures become a little confusing

iirc piper also do one which is around 254 degrees which imho would be alot better for fast road

i am s t u p i d !!!!!! can some one in the know tell me what one to get, as i have no idea what i am looking at. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[TeflonTom]

GS1

GS1H

Sports Injection 1500-6000 11.17 11.17 266 Deg 21/65 65/21 112 Deg 0.00 I 1.37mm CF38

right here goes! i'll try to explain it a little bit

the "1500-6000" bit is the power band in revs per minuite

the next bit "11.17 11.7" that is the lift in millimetres. inlet then exhaust, so the maximum amount that the valve is lifted from its seat is 11.17mm

the "266" bit tells you the duration measured at the crankshaft, so for every two revolutions of the crank(720 degrees) the valve stays open for 266 degrees of it

next "21/65 65/21" bit refers to the valve timing, inlet first then exhaust second. for the inlet the 21 means that the valve opens 21 degrees before top dead centre and the 65 means that the valve closes 65 degreesafter bottom dead centre, likewise the same applies to the exhaust valve.. remember that camshafts dont allways have the same figures for inlet and exhaust, in fact having a shorter exhaust duration in most cases will give you a wider power band,but a reduced peak output

the "112 deg" refers to the lobe displacment angle or lobe centre angle, it basically tells you the angle between the maximum lift of the intake valve and the maximumum lift of the exhaust valve.... the wider this angle, the higher up in the rev range your peak torque will be. i prefer using 110 deg LCA on road cars.

[pinkskud]

right i'm getting there, slowly.

[WoodieGuthrie]

woodie, do you know at what lift those measurements are taken?? noramlly it's 0.1mm for hydraulic lifter engines, but other manufactureres measure it at the last point so the timing figures become a little confusing

iirc piper also do one which is around 254 degrees which imho would be alot better for fast road

no idea sir. Kent Performance Cams Ltd and send them an email will get a definative answer.

254 as a "fast road" cam??

that the standard duration i my m20 6pot, and considered bloody weak- fast road for that lump is 282 or thereabouts..

[TeflonTom]

an aee vw lump will idle like a bag os $hit with a cam duration that long... and that is about the limit you can go to without having to machine away part of the head where the hydraulic lifter goes in to get enough clearance for the camshaft lobe to clear it. besides, with cam profiles like that you'd want to be looking into mechanical lifter conversions rather than using hydraulics

[WoodieGuthrie]

Fair enough! my m20 has mech lifters.

still think that the aEe would idle of, assuming you can adjust timing and fuel intoke? MS or other engine management?

[TeflonTom]

iirc the m20 cylinder heads have these strange rocker arms too right?? you will have to fogive me if i'm wrong, it's been over a year since i've worked on a bmw engine, and i'm not exactly an expert on them.

when you consider the duration of a cam in an engine with mechanical cam trains, rockers etc, you have to take into account the rocker arm ratio too

for example, using nice round numbers, if you cam is 400 degrees, and your rocker arms are 1:1, you get a nice 400 degree valve opening period give or take... but if your rocker arms are 2:1 although your cam lobe is open(on rock) for 400 degrees, the valve is only open for 200 degrees....

does that make any sense?? i'm sure sombody will come along and tell me what the rocker arm ratio is on an m20 very soon..

plus also mechanical cams are measured differently to cams on hydraulic lifters.. mechanical cams are measured at the last point(where the lobe and lifter/rocker) first contact.... hydraulic ones are measured at a specified lift which varies from one manufacturer to another, normally 0.1mm or 1mm

[WoodieGuthrie]

iirc the m20 cylinder heads have these strange rocker arms too right?? you will have to fogive me if i'm wrong, it's been over a year since i've worked on a bmw engine, and i'm not exactly an expert on them.

when you consider the duration of a cam in an engine with mechanical cam trains, rockers etc, you have to take into account the rocker arm ratio too

for example, using nice round numbers, if you cam is 400 degrees, and your rocker arms are 1:1, you get a nice 400 degree valve opening period give or take... but if your rocker arms are 2:1 although your cam lobe is open(on rock) for 400 degrees, the valve is only open for 200 degrees....

does that make any sense?? i'm sure sombody will come along and tell me what the rocker arm ratio is on an m20 very soon..

plus also mechanical cams are measured differently to cams on hydraulic lifters.. mechanical cams are measured at the last point(where the lobe and lifter/rocker) first contact.... hydraulic ones are measured at a specified lift which varies from one manufacturer to another, normally 0.1mm or 1mm

Got ya sir.

I honestly cant tell you the rocker arm ratios, not been near my touring in weeks:thumbdwn: :(

the GS1H cant be too far off at 266 surely?specs above!

[TeflonTom]

the GS1H cant be too far off at 266 surely?specs above!

:iagree:

that would be a very good choice of cam for this car for fast road use, nice even idlem wide power spread, nice top end gains without too much loss is low down torque:)

just for comparison i've just pulled this from the piper catalogue

Part number: VPHBP270H

1500-6700 10.16/10.16 254Deg 17/57-57/17 100Deg

and as a matter of interest that is listed as a 270degree cam for advertising purposes

[WoodieGuthrie]

:iagree:

that would be a very good choice of cam for this car for fast road use, nice even idlem wide power spread, nice top end gains without too much loss is low down torque:)

just for comparison i've just pulled this from the piper catalogue

Part number: VPHBP270H

1500-6700 10.16/10.16 254Deg 17/57-57/17 100Deg

and as a matter of interest that is listed as a 270degree cam for advertising purposes

take it the poiint of measurement changes the duration then?

[pinkskud]

so what you saying? i go for the piper VPHBP270H?