I know from previous posts that advanced driving is thoroughly recommended on this site but I'm worried about having a go. My problem is that I'm worried that driving is too poor a starting point:O . Some recent experiences (a motorway "incident" and a defensive driving seminar through work amongst others) have demonstrated that I could do with some (a lot) more driver training but I'm worried I'll get turned away at the first hurdle for being beyond redemption.

What happens when you contact IAM/RoSPA and go along for initial assessment?

I don't need a :grouphug: just a better idea of what happens, what they're looking for and what's a worst case scenario?

You have to want to improve. That's all.

Buy a copy of Roadcraft and read it. If after an initial read you think "yeah I could do that" then get yourself along to one of the groups and ask for an assessment. If you think "oh my god I couldn't be that anal about driving" then it probably isn't for you.

As to what happens, I believe it varies depending on where you are. Some groups are quite quick at getting things in motion, others less so :(

As Nick says, what happens probably depends on where you are.

When I did it (more years ago than I care to admit) the local group ran courses each year which consisted of 4 evening lectures/Q&A sessions, then you were assigned an observer who would go on drives with you and help you improve by giving constructive criticism. At that time you could get as many observed runs as you needed. (I'm not sure if this is still the case.)

I wouldn't worry about feeling that your driving is "beyond redemption" - the whole point is to try and improve driving standards!

You could phone the local group contact and ask what they do. To find your local group try Groups

The police also ran driving courses, but this cost a bit more, and you tended to get less observed runs afterwards. I'm not sure if every force did/do this.

Well I do want to improve my driving but wanting to improve and being able to make significant improvement is a different matter. Having lost my 3 yrs NCB due to a potentially avoidable incident theres clearly a monetary value to being a better driver as well as the potential of saving my life and others through avoiding an accident in future.

I live in manchester and have looked up details for local IAM and ROSPA groups but not done anything about it yet. Is it just about driving on the open road or will they look at my parking too?

Anybody can learn. Just do it!

(sez he who took about 25 years to "just do it" )

My local group offer this

Is it for you?

Our experience is that almost everyone can achieve advanced standard if they put the effort into practice. If you are in any doubt about whether advanced driving is for you' date=' please contact our Chief Observer, by emailing [email'][email protected][/email] or phoning 01786 462527. He will be happy to advise and, if appropriate, can offer you

* a preliminary assessment of your driving. One of our Observers will go out with you for a short drive in your car. Afterwards they will give you a frank but friendly assessment of your potential and how long it might take you to become an advanced driver.

* a demonstration drive. One of our Observers will take you out in his or her car to show you what advanced driving is like in practice.

These are offered free and without any obligation to join.

Maybe worth calling your local group to see if they do similar, At the end of the day you have nothing to loose, its

In our local group, you are welcomed at the group meetings. You can arrange to join and pay your fees and you will be allocated an observer. If your first assessment drive is reasonably OK (that is the observer does not feel like he / she is going to die), you will continue with observed drives until your standard reaches the required level, then go for the mock test followed by the test.

If your drive is really very bad, at the next group meeting you attend, you will be murdered and used as barbecue food, unless in the winter, where you will just find yourself in around 1000 pieces scattered about the countryside as fox food, either way, all identifiable aspects of your body will have been removed by angle grinder.... Prior to your demise.

Just kidding!

But really, if you feel that your drive is really very poor, contact your local IAM now. They will be only too happy to help and it is more rewarding for an observer to transform a poor drive than it is to polish up an already good one. If you dont fancy te group activity or involvement, contact a local driving school that offers advanced lessons. It will cost you more than going with the IAM.

Main thing is you have identified the need to improve and that is the biggest step. As said above, read Roadcraft.

Chris

I think the main points have been covered, but the key to advanced driving is not about ability, it's about advanced thinking and being receptive to new ideas and ways of doing things.

Remember also there is no such thing as a perfect drive (except for Jon's ) and as long as you're comfortable driving on the roads in your car, you will be at a good enough level to start the training.

The courses usually start with an examiner/observer demo drive which may or may not be useful depending on how you look at it. It's a good way of seeing what you're aiming for, but it may also be quite offputting if you're thinking how the hell am I gonna be that good!? I found it more beneficial to have a demo drive after 2 or 3 observed runs because then you can see what you've learnt in action, and you're in a better position to question what they're doing.

As mentioned above, contact your group and see what they say - you might find there are quite a few people there in similar situations to you

Chris

On the test, or observed run, you'll have to park at some stage, even if it is only at the end, so that would come into it but I don't remember it being much more than that. It involves a mixture of driving - town/city, country and dual carriageway, or perhaps even motorway if there is one nearby:) .

If there were specific areas you wanted to improve, or it was felt you should look at, then I imagine that more time would be spent on it.

Afterwards they will give you a frank but friendly assessment of your potential...

Exactly, I don't want that frank an assessment. But I suppose I can't say no to a free assessment drive if I can get one.

If you dont fancy te group activity or involvement, contact a local driving school that offers advanced lessons. It will cost you more than going with the IAM.

That's why I'm asking about advanced driving and why I'm worried about being told to GO BACK AND START AGAIN!

Exactly, I don't want that frank an assessment. But I suppose I can't say no to a free assessment drive if I can get one.

In the RoSPA camp, they typically score you against a check sheet and rate how well you do each thing, eg mechanical sympathy, steering, use of horn, etc. From my experience, their goal is to simply get you to pass level and I would say that the majority of "average" drivers could get to that stage in a few runs (I think 6 is quoted).

Read Roadcraft so you know the theory then let your observer help you put it into practice

Chris

That's why I'm asking about advanced driving and why I'm worried about being told to GO BACK AND START AGAIN!

IAM and RoSPA are crying out for members - they didn't turn me away, so I'm sure you'll be just fine :P

Chris

The will to learn is everything. If you want to improve, you will. There's nothing to stop you practising on your own to start with. Just thinking more about your driving, planning ahead, reading, watching videos about it, the whole attitude thing will change you before you even get to being observed.

Remember, they want to HELP you

Picture this, I'm doing this cousre: defensive driving (arranged through work), we're somewhere in the peak district and he's trying to teach me how to look ahead on windy NSL roads and if I can see the road "opening up" ahead I'm not going to fast. He does it, I'm grinning from ear to ear, I do it 30mph slower and think the Honda CRV I'm driving won't make it and I'm going to die, taking theinstructor and a colleague with me. Our company RIDDOR and DACR stats will be ruined.

On my driving test I spent about 30 secs driving at 40mph and the rest of the time sub 30. My driving lessons (all 50 hours) reflected the test style. I did however have lessons on the motorway after my test but not NSL type roads. I'd like to say Im happy I won't die on the motorway.

Will they be happy to teach me this open road driving style or tell me I need more driving lessons?

You've passed your test, you are therefore authorised to drive on the public roads.

You want to look forward and improve, so of course you can learn.

Do you have any history of bad experiences in cars? There could be a subconscious reason you don't feel comfortable driving fast.

Do you have a friend who is a good progressive driver who could come out with you for some confidence-firming sessions?

Will they be happy to teach me this open road driving style or tell me I need more driving lessons?

The simple answer is yes, they will be happy to teach you this style as it's a part of the advanced driving ethos of making swift, safe progress. Did the chap give commentary while you were a passenger? It may also help to run the route slowly, trying to get the basics in place first and then once you're more comfortable up the pace a bit. Remember that your instructor has a good few years of experience on you and his drive will always reflect this!

Chris

Do you have any history of bad experiences in cars? There could be a subconscious reason you don't feel comfortable driving fast.

Bad experiences generally relate to parking, I still struggle to know where my corners are. Higher speed insecurity relates to not knowing the correct method of driving i.e how to go round corners. I'm a monkey see, monkey do type of person.

The motorway incident I've mentioned is that I hit something on the carriageway, I had 2+ seconds to react but didn't know what to do. Having a better level of concentration and a greater awareness of my options is what I'd be looking for in this situation.

Despite being more aware than ever of what I should be doing and what my limitations are, I nearly got NIP'ed by a GATSO on the A556 through Mere only last night due to confusion over temporoary road signs.

Did the chap give commentary while you were a passenger?

Yes, mr experience (retired police driver) was saying a driver wasn't lookng in my direction at a T-junction (she as actually eating an apple!) when I'm looking at the car and wondering if its going to pull out.

Even advanced drivers have trouble parking

Cornering technique is outlined in Roadcraft and generally speed is dictated by what you can see (ie can you always stop in the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road?).

Roadcraft also explains a technique for trying to maximise your observation to build up a picture of hazards and then prioritise them. The key is looking for patterns, for example, a car is in a side road ... are they looking towards you? Are they rolling? Which way are the wheels turned? It will come with time and experience

As I hinted at earlier, going out with an experienced driver (especially a retired police driver) is going to leave you feeling that you are the world's worst driver, but you're not, you're just on the very first rung! A police class 1 driver is well above the required standard for even RoSPA Gold!

Chris

That's why I'm asking about advanced driving and why I'm worried about being told to GO BACK AND START AGAIN!

Really no need to worry about approaching the IAM or RoSPA groups. They are normally friendly and are there to help. The people who go out with you as observers are volunteers who do it because they enjoy it. It is generally informal and relaxed.

Reading a few more of your posts, I am guessing that you find the open road driving difficult because you did not cover enough of it in your driving lessons? I also suspect that you are relatively recently qualified? These sort of situations are ideal platforms from which to improve your driving. Your attitude is obvoiusly right as you have identified a need to change your driving. Driver attitude is so very important and as I said earlier, identifying the need to change your driving is the biggest step.

A good observer will be able to identify your prospective areas for improvement with you and then work on incrementally improving those things that need to be better. The process is actually very rewarding for you as well. You will not just practice while out on the observed drives, you will practice all the time you are driving (or even when you are a passenger if you really get the bug). This leads to driving in all situations becoming an absorbing and, for many people, an entertaining activity.

Give it a go. What harm can it do? I reckon you will enjoy it more than you expect.

Chris

...I am guessing that you find the open road driving difficult because you did not cover enough of it in your driving lessons? I also suspect that you are relatively recently qualified?

Yes and even as a relatively mature new driver (25 at the time) its taken me 3 years to be able to appraise my own driving. What actually frightens me as opposed to just being wary of things is that I've done a lot of driving in a short space of time and the more NSL A/B-road driving I do, the more concerned I get that I don't really know what I'm doing.

You will not just practice while out on the observed drives, you will practice all the time you are driving (or even when you are a passenger if you really get the bug). This leads to driving in all situations becoming an absorbing and, for many people, an entertaining activity.

I try to do this in my own way but again my lack of knowledge and understanding of how to drive leads me to be fear the driving abilities of others I am in a car with. I need to let swmbo start driving my car. She has a valid licence (not british though) and has even had some refresher lessons but the prospect of her driving my car scares the **** out of me. hmm, much food for thought.

Yes and even as a relatively mature new driver (25 at the time) its taken me 3 years to be able to appraise my own driving. What actually frightens me as opposed to just being wary of things is that I've done a lot of driving in a short space of time and the more NSL A/B-road driving I do, the more concerned I get that I don't really know what I'm doing.

I try to do this in my own way but again my lack of knowledge and understanding of how to drive leads me to be fear the driving abilities of others I am in a car with. I need to let swmbo start driving my car. She has a valid licence (not british though) and has even had some refresher lessons but the prospect of her driving my car scares the **** out of me. hmm, much food for thought.

You really want to get stuck in as soon as possible. The IAM will provide you with good knowledge to help build confidence with ability. Dont consider them to be judging you, merely helping to make you a better driver. Looks like your joining would help you both out.

Chris

Hi,

I'm currently working in Knutsford. Dunno where round Manc you are but if you want I'll observe you, give you a demo drive etc until you decide what you want to do in terms of IAM or RoSPA. Just drop me a PM, I can do most afternoons / evenings.

I personally did RoSPA as I liked the idea of knowing how good I was (yes Chris, I can actually walk on water ). Guess I just didn't want to be pass or fail.

As has been said by many, just join a group. RoSPA groups are usually about £5 admin +£10 annual subscription. Test is £45. IAM IIRC is £80 inc test and copy of Roadcraft. Groups are, on the whole, friendly although some can be a bit up themselves and have a holier than thou feel. I know it's a bit of a trek but South Yorks isn't too bad, we meet the last thursday of the month in Sheffield.

Get stuck in!

Jon

Thanks, Jon:thumbup:

I was looking for Roadcraft online and TSO say there's a new one due in November. I'll need the current one anyway but does anyone know if there's likely to be any major changes?

its nice to see that theres alot of people out there who although have been driving for a few years feel that they need to improve there own driving and want to improve their driving, i see alot of people who are terrible drivers but just wont admit it.

if there were more drivers out there that want to improve their driving the roads would be safer and not just to get a discount on their insurance, as you just dont get taught the skills to deal with all sorts of situations that you might come acorss whilst driving.

im an advance police driver with pursuit training and have been doing it for the last 3 years and my insurance company still wont acknowledge my training and give me a discount!:thumbdwn:

Norwich Union give discounts (up to 25%) for an advanced qualification. Some others will give 10% on presentation of a skid control course certificate

Dave, you decide between IAM and RoSPA yet?