Turn the tables.....question a cop

[Psyzygy]

Fasinating, informative and very useful thread Steve, thanks!

Having been, during the first 14 years of my driving career, banned for 7 of them (5 occasions, all for paper violations except a couple of twocs & one intoxication, iirc ), I've kinda got the hang of what's "permissable conduct" on our highways (clean for 19 years :lol:) and TBH I think that Traffic/Response is probably the hardest job for any PC who has day-to-day contact with the public.

i) Driving standards: would you advocate a 3 part driving test similar to the 3 part bike test? (I passed HGVIII at 17 & wasn't allowed on the roads untill I could competently control a vehicle). Personally, I'd have ALL new drivers ride a moped for 6 months before they could even get in a car! As well as having to pass a basic manoevering & vehicle control competency test.

ii) I know the Highway Code says to move to the inside lane of the M/way when it's clear; is it an offence not to and if not, why not? :flame: Those idiots!

iii) How are the new EC Human Rights directives going to affect how you do your job? (I was kidding with that one )

iv) How would you Box a Hummer or would you just let it run out of petrol?

v) Do you or Traffic in general, take more notice of how people in modded cars drive than standard cars?

vi) Are you, through the Registration plate link thingy you now have, able to find out if a car has a current MOT or not?

vii) I think there are still a couple of pretty reasonable questions further up this thread that you've left unanswered

viii) That very odd road signage, I've never seen blue arrows point in that direction before. I think a non-driver installed them incorrectly.

ix) Green Arrow Filters. If the filter has it's own red light, then you have to wait, if it's simply a green arrow underneath the main set, you can go whenever the road is clear & it's safe to do so.

x) Keeping this tread alive :P

:( for you having to work Xmas!

[woodenspatulas]

nice thread, ive great respect for most police. sadly ive had dealings with some that left a bit to be desired in how i was dealt with, but i guess everyone has a off day

it takes guts and determination to do your job, so fair play and thanks for taking time to answer a few questions!

i have a couple of questions that i think is mainly down to the idividual bobby to decide but i thought i would ask:

Window tints on the front side windows. im not talking silly limo tint, but what i would call sensible light smoke tint. would you pull the car? is it legal to demand the tints taken out there and then? we fitted had them to SWMBO's car to deter crime. if you cant see in the car you wont be tempted by the recaro seats, face off stereo etc.

and as this has had a fair bit of discussion on here too:

after market HID kits. again im not refering to silly blue or mega high out put kits, just decent white HIDS. ive got a set that really helps me see better in the dark. i regularly follow my friends about and have never had them complain. never been flashed by oncoming traffic, and i had them aligned by a mot station to make sure they were as spot on as possible and im in the process of fitting washers to make sure they dont dazzle when dirty too.

again if would pull a car if you suspected aftermarket HIDs or only if they were seriously blue looking or out of alignment?

and lastly. few few friends and myself were out late one night and we came across a roundabout being used by some "drifters" we pulled up at a safe place and then came down to watch. eventually the police turned up and started asking questions. we slid off while they chatted to the drivers. now if i had stayed about could i be "done" for anything? it would have been obvious that my own car couldnt be involved as its FWD, but just for future notice it would be nice to get a proper perspective on it.

cheers!!

[Moose]

Window tints on the front side windows. im not talking silly limo tint, but what i would call sensible light smoke tint. would you pull the car? is it legal to demand the tints taken out there and then? we fitted had them to SWMBO's car to deter crime. if you cant see in the car you wont be tempted by the recaro seats, face off stereo etc.

I believe I'm correct in saying that all that would happen is you would told that the vehicle cannot be driven any further until the tints have been removed and the car is legal again. You can remove at the time, or arrange for a recovery truck to take the vehicle home. Your choice, but do not drive it.

[sms]

copper can make you remove it, or he can place a prohibition notice on it stopping the vehcle from moving.

[Psyzygy]

I was under the impression that side-tints were OK and that it's the front screen that has to be kept clear at all times - other than factory fit anti-glare green or similar... I've just checked and there is a permissable limit to the amount of light transmission through the window:

The legal position is that the front side windows on all cars must allow 70% of light to pass through them. That figure also applies to the windscreens of cars first used before April 1985; any car first used from then onwards has to let 75% of light through the windscreen.

If the meter registers figures better than those mentioned above during a roadside check, there is no problem. If between 45% and 65% of light gets through, the driver is advised to have the tinting removed, failure to do which might result in a prosecution and a fine of up to £2000.

For between 30% and 45% of light transmission the vehicle is assumed to be unfit for use but not to pose an immediate danger. A delayed prohibition is issued and the owner has up to ten days from the date of issue to remove the tint.

At less than 30% the legal position is that driving the vehicle would involve a risk of injury, and the vehicle cannot be moved under its own power from the issuing of the prohibition notice until the tint has been removed.

The responsibility for enforcing the rules among car owners in this country now lies with the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA), VOSA is itself empowered to stop vehicles for roadside checks in North Wales, Cambridgeshire, Staffordshire, Northumberland and Greater Manchester. Elsewhere it works in conjunction with the police.

(Extracts from The Law On Window Tinting 2 | Road Tests, Auto Features)

VOSA have light meters to measure the amount of tint that a window has, yet they and the Police are also empowered to "visually" assess the amount of tint too and if they think it's below 30% they can prevent you from driving your vehicle. Anything over 30% and you are free to drive it away and then get them sorted within 10 days. In addition to this, tints that are darker than the permitted 70% may invalidate insurance and in areas that Police have been vigilant in checking the tint levels of car windows, they've also caught disqualified drivers, criminals on the run & made many other traffic related prosecutions.

[Mondo]

Not sure if this is going to be a wise idea or not, but I have decided to put myself out there to answer any legal related questions relating to cars/roads/police and their powers etc etc.

First time I've seen this thread and I think it's great.

I'm assuming Steve is from Englandshire whereas I am in the "Job" a little further North in Bonnie Scotland.

Road traffic law is fairly universal all over the UK and as such I am not about to tred on Steve's toes as he's clearly doing a sterling job.

That said, Scot's (common) law is fundamentaly different from quite a lot of English (statutory) Law and if anyone has a query of Scot's Law I'd be only too happy to see if I can assist.

I haven't read through all the thread and I dare say other Scott's Cops may well have offered their services already, but as someone in the thread has already identified, opinions differ. (And there's always the chance of a health debate if they do).

[anewman]

Saw this a while ago, but I once saw a police officer approach traffic lights, they turned red, and he turned his blue lights on and went through, then turned them off. It looked to me just like he couldn't be bothered waiting rather than was responding to an emergency. Can't help feeling that surely there's some law against this?

[Mondo]

Saw this a while ago, but I once saw a police officer approach traffic lights, they turned red, and he turned his blue lights on and went through, then turned them off. It looked to me just like he couldn't be bothered waiting rather than was responding to an emergency. Can't help feeling that surely there's some law against this?

I can see how this would look but I doubt if the cop was abusing his "blues". It was more than likely a graded call which fell just below the emergency response criteria but that the officer still needed to get through traffic quickly and safely. I've done this many times and I must admit, it goes through my mind that people probably thing the same as you.

Consider this though ... we're more often than not so busy, that being able to chill out sitting in a queue of traffic can actually be quite a luxuary.

As far as being against the law, Police are excempt from the legislation governing red traffic lights. We are of course accountable however and must be able to justify our actions. If we cause an accident by going through a red light, we are just as liable to face prosecution as anyone else.

[dieseldarren]

I've seen recovery trucks turn their flashing lights on to trick the traffic light sensors too. Handy if they're going in your direction, not so good if they're not!

[sms]

I've seen recovery trucks turn their flashing lights on to trick the traffic light sensors too. Handy if they're going in your direction, not so good if they're not!

:rofl:

old wives tale, they work by movement not light!!:rofl:

[Captain Kremen]

How strictly is this hands free phone lark being implimented? I see so many people with a phone clamed to one ear, usually attempted to negotiate a tricky obstacle such as a roundabout, pushing out of a side road, or even overtaking. If I then reported his reg number to the Police for this, would anything happen?

I am not being pious here, just that if one of these half-wits runs over my daughter because his other hand slipped on the wheel I will turn into a Psycho Killer.

[anewman]

How strictly is this hands free phone lark being implimented? I see so many people with a phone clamed to one ear, usually attempted to negotiate a tricky obstacle such as a roundabout, pushing out of a side road, or even overtaking. If I then reported his reg number to the Police for this, would anything happen?

I am not a police officer, but I guess there would have to be substantial evidence of the infraction, for example a photograph. Otherwise, if I didn't like you, I could just tell the police you were on your mobile phone.

Just to add to the question, I once saw a police officer on his mobile phone, not a walkie talkie thing, a mobile phone and was at the wheel. Surely they have to set an example?! Can anything be done about that? I'm guessing not.

[Mondo]

I am not a police officer, but I guess there would have to be substantial evidence of the infraction, for example a photograph. Otherwise, if I didn't like you, I could just tell the police you were on your mobile phone.

Frustrating as it may be, even if you took a photograph we would be unlikely to act upon it. All to do with whether or not evidence has been legally obtained etc. Bottom line is ... his day will come and he'll get caught. We just have to hope it's before he causes an accident.

Just to add to the question, I once saw a police officer on his mobile phone, not a walkie talkie thing, a mobile phone and was at the wheel. Surely they have to set an example?! Can anything be done about that? I'm guessing not.

Yes it can. We are not above the law!! Notwithstanding exceptions in law which apply to everyone, there is no justification for a Police Officer to be using his / her phone whilst driving. If you see it, report the reg no to the local service centre. As per the first part of the post, it will not result in a conviction but the cop otherwise be dealt with.

[niceyellow vrs]

Here's one for you. On my way to work this morning, through the middle of Gloucester, I passed a speed camera that flashed me for doing bang on 30mph in a 30 limit. Where do I stand if I get sent the letter in the post accusing me of speeding and is there any way that I can prove that I was driving within the speed limit? What happens if I refuse to pay the fine and take the points on my licence?

Cheers, Haydn

[shadow2006]

got a bit of a confusing one here i was stoped the other night because the exahust is too low to the road so ive looked its securley fitted to the car modded not origanaly on the car but to cover my self so i can say its fine i went to a garage got told its legal and nothing wrong just wondering were i stand now with getting stoped again for this althogh i do carry a recite from the garage, cheers

[kriswithak]

Here's one for you. On my way to work this morning, through the middle of Gloucester, I passed a speed camera that flashed me for doing bang on 30mph in a 30 limit. Where do I stand if I get sent the letter in the post accusing me of speeding and is there any way that I can prove that I was driving within the speed limit? What happens if I refuse to pay the fine and take the points on my licence?

Cheers, Haydn

Using the markings on the road and the timings of the two photographs you will be able to work out your speed using the S=D/T equation.

If you are certain that you were doing 30 in a 30 then you'll be fine, more than likely it's a faulty camera.

[expostmanpat]

With ref to using phones whilst driving, does the same law apply to walkie talkies, not having a pop at police, but planning on using them on the road trip

[Babs]

AFAIK, the law specifically excludes "two-way radios"

[westerdam2]

With ref to using phones whilst driving, does the same law apply to walkie talkies, not having a pop at police, but planning on using them on the road trip

Here's the answer:

PNLD FAQ Alphabetical List -

Do remember though that you must be paying 'due care and attention' at all times even if the apparatus is excluded from the mobile legislation.

Sorry, don't know the rules and regulations abroad.

HTH

[TaviaRS]

Here's one for you. On my way to work this morning, through the middle of Gloucester, I passed a speed camera that flashed me for doing bang on 30mph in a 30 limit. Where do I stand if I get sent the letter in the post accusing me of speeding and is there any way that I can prove that I was driving within the speed limit? What happens if I refuse to pay the fine and take the points on my licence?

Cheers, Haydn

Look at the two photos, count the number of lines between the two car positions, each line is 5mph. So if your bumper is over a line in one picture and in the second picture is over the 7th line you wre doing 35 mph. All cameras have a backup over and above the primary reading (in this case radar). It's not exact but is meant to put it in the right ball park. So if the radar says you were doing 40 but there are only 7 lines difference you have grounds to appeal.

[sms]

i believe police are excluded from the two way radio law im sure ive read the wording for it somewhere.

[tdirob]

what rights do police have for accessing private property?

For example a police man once pulled over a car and had him turn into our private driveway so he could book him. Both the police car and other motorist were on the drive.

[sms]

i would have taken photos and reported him to professional standards.

[tdirob]

the cheeky feckers were back again today. Parked up at the end of our driveway with a camera facing back down the road. Can I ask them to leave? they may be restricting access for the LGV that often come on site...

[sms]

yes you can, but firstly ring their office and tell them you have someone obstructing your driveway and could they get a unit out to deal with them