The number of ipod returns i have had to deal with is huge, but so are the sales i have done. Most 'faults' are due to the battery life not being that great, but a quick charge from a mains point usually sorts this (guess some USB's dont output enough power), or other problems just need a reboot or update from the web. Creatives seem to me to go wrong less often: I have had to do fewer returns per sales than with the ipod, however they tend not to have as easy a solution, athough the occasional restore has worked brilliantly!

Forget any 'difference' in sound quality, even a

The number of ipod returns i have had to deal with is huge, but so are the sales i have done. Most 'faults' are due to the battery life not being that great, but a quick charge from a mains point usually sorts this (guess some USB's dont output enough power), or other problems just need a reboot or update from the web. Creatives seem to me to go wrong less often: I have had to do fewer returns per sales than with the ipod, however they tend not to have as easy a solution, athough the occasional restore has worked brilliantly!

Forget any 'difference' in sound quality, even a

New ipods have been released, hard drives are huge, and the players are smaller and sexy than ever before.

Think they're available to buy on apples online uk store (but the page keeps locking up for me). Have a look on Apple for details

Here's my 2 pence - Ipod's are lame! Why?

Ipod's have built in batteries - as soon as they deminish (and it doesn't take long), you have to send the unit back to apple to repair. Stupid! All creative devices have removable batteries.

We all use Windows lets face it (bar a few Mac users). Why use file formats that are Mac native ie AAC? WMA/WAV/MP3 are all supported by the Creatives, much better methinks.

Itunes - what a pile of bloated crap! It's designed for a Mac and ported to Windows. Okay it works - but damn it's rubbish.

IPods are so popular because Americans go by looks over functionality. Look at the 'Blackberry' phone. They are the most popular phone in the US, but not here. Yes you can get them, but fortunately we haven't adopted the idea yet. If we did it would be like the Ipod scenario.

Finally, I have had 5 Creative Zen players - not one has frozen on me.

I had the Zen 30GB, Zen 60GB (dropped it...oops), Zen Micro 4GB, Micro 8 GB and now a Zen VPlus 4GB. They are brilliant!!!! Never gone wrong, and the sound quality is superior to the Ipod.

Seriously - the Ipod may feel a little better in your pocket but lets face it, who can see in your pocket!!

Ipod's have built in batteries - as soon as they deminish (and it doesn't take long), you have to send the unit back to apple to repair.....

We all use Windows lets face it (bar a few Mac users). Why use file formats that are Mac native ie AAC?

More drivel...

No-one says you have to like the iPod but please get your facts right before 'advising' others.

I've heard that the next generation ipods will be here very shortly - expect bigger hard drives and touch screens. Old models should drop in price accordingly. Tescos already have nanos cheap at the mo.

As mentioned above... hold out for a few more days... Apple will be making some announcements on the 5th sept about new ipods... roumors are flash-based ipod video style with touchscreen interface ipodnano-***-ipodvideo-***-iphone thingys (ipod touch??)

either way it will mean the new gen ones will have more storage for the money.

Good advice! New iPods out today are better and cheaper. Anyone who bought an old style one yesterday is going to be a bit jacked off.

My only issue with iTunes is that every now and then an update will seem to slaughter the performance of your machine - I get the feeling this depends on which version you started with but I haven't looked closely enough to work it out. Early versions nicked file associations without warning which was a bugger if (like mine) your machine doubles up as a recording studio.

If I was tempted to get an iPod to run alongside my Zen it'd only be because I had a car that came fitted with an integrated and effective controller, and even then I'd probably run Sharepod rather than go with iTunes. The new interface looks fantastic though, and as an owner of many macs through the years alongside my PCs I think any portable application of OSX is a damn good thing

Ipod's have built in batteries - as soon as they deminish (and it doesn't take long), you have to send the unit back to apple to repair. Stupid! All creative devices have removable batteries.

There are 3rd party companies that will also do this.. My ipod is 2 years old now and I've had no issues with the battery at all.

We all use Windows lets face it (bar a few Mac users). Why use file formats that are Mac native ie AAC? WMA/WAV/MP3 are all supported by the Creatives, much better methinks.

ACC a mac native file format?? WRONG!

Maybe you should read some actual facts about the file format before making such statements... clicky

AAC was developed with the cooperation and contributions of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer IIS, AT&T, Sony and Nokia, and was officially declared an international standard by the Moving Pictures Experts Group in April 1997.

Where does it say that you HAVE to use ACC with iTunes/iPod??

Get an IPOD and get a denison adaptor for the car

Easy now! I wasn't 'advising', I was merely saying that Ipod's aren't necessarily the way forwad!

Okay, by native I meant this is Ipods prefer MP3's/AAC over say WAV/WMA/OGG/FLAC etc. Itunes by default will rip your CD's into AAC. No you don't HAVE to use it but it's default. Furthermore, (unless you have additional codecs), you have to use Itunes*cough bloatware cough* to listen to the music on your PC. Finally I think you will find that AAC is a poor choice of file format anyway.

MPEG-4 AAC vs MP3 vs Ogg

This describes how poor AAC is compared to say MP3/OGG. Also Ipod's don't support DRM!

Anyway, I think I pods are generally inferior to it's competitors. They look good-ish, but then would you buy a car based on its looks or how well it functions?

Apologies if I seemed rude but I get tired of people posting 'facts' that aren't.

...I was merely saying that Ipod's aren't necessarily the way forwad!

True...

Okay, by native I meant this is Ipods prefer MP3's/AAC over say WAV/WMA/OGG/FLAC etc. Itunes by default will rip your CD's into AAC. No you don't HAVE to use it but it's default. Furthermore, (unless you have additional codecs), you have to use Itunes*cough bloatware cough* to listen to the music on your PC. Finally I think you will find that AAC is a poor choice of file format anyway.

MPEG-4 AAC vs MP3 vs Ogg

This describes how poor AAC is compared to say MP3/OGG.

iPods don't 'prefer' anything. They use whatever you define in iTunes. Apple have used MP3 because it's the de facto standard for compressed digital music. They use AAC because it's an open international standard that's royalty free & is generally accepted (despite your single link to the contrary) to be of higher quality per file size than MP3 (roughly equivalent to WMA which is also accepted to be of higher standard than MP3). Apple don't use WMA because it's a closed, Microsoft controlled format. Microsoft ceased supporting WMA on the Macintosh some time ago.

Also Ipod's don't support DRM!

Absolute nonsense! WRONG!

They look good-ish, but then would you buy a car based on its looks or how well it functions?

Bit of both, if I'm honest.

I have an iPod (six years old, used nearly every day, still on the original battery). A friend in work has a Zen. They're both nice. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good; it doesn't mean it's rubbish either. The OP is trying to decide what to buy. He wants some useful insight backed up with facts.

It's ok to post your opinion & your opinion that the iPod is crap is perfectly valid; however if you're going to try to back that opinion up please check your facts first.

Not a problem. I don't mean to sound rude either, I'm just trying to show the fuller picture.

iPods don't 'prefer' anything. They use whatever you define in iTunes.

Well they do prefer to use AAC/MP3 over WMA/FLAC/OGG etc! Okay maybe not prefer, but that's all they can play from mainstream formats (ie not inc WAV/AIFF/M4A/M4P)

They use AAC because it's an open international standard that's royalty free & is generally accepted

Seems a bit strange they adopted a format that wasn't that widely used until Ipods came around! MP3's, athough not 100% open (in the legal or technical sense) in all cases, it's the most widely used and, in many cases, not controlled by just one company. Why is AAC necessary?

The OP is trying to decide what to buy. He wants some useful insight backed up with facts.

Surely asking 'Ipod or Creative Zen' opens up discussion for opinions, not just factual content?

It's ok to post your opinion & your opinion that the iPod is crap is perfectly valid

Actually, I never said the Ipod was crap, only it's respective software. It'll do the job nicely, however there are multitude of superior products out there that are cheaper.