Yep that's a good tip and it may be useful as an aid, but I'd personally want to be driving within what I can see so if sat nav tells me the road is straight (and therefore that an overtake might be considered) I wouldn't take it without being able to clearly see the bit of road I was planning on using.

Chris

He uses it for junctions / hazards just around the next bend etc

And while he's looking at it, he's not looking at the road. (Yes I know you said "glances" above. How often, and for how long? Similar to mirror checks (one every 8 seconds or so), more often, less often?)

I'm with Chris and Mondo on this one. Watch the road, not gadgets!

You can certainly get the speed up to chase the cats eyes when you have the sat nav on as you can see the nasty bends approching on screen too (second set of eyes).

But remember that the cats eyes are showing you where the road goes and also the severity of bends (the more cats eyes you can see, the higher the level of hazard). Also if you remember the limit point analysis stuff you can use the movement of cats eyes to determine the severity of the bend too - if you're approaching and they're not appearing to move then you have a very tight corner coming up!

Trick is to keep looking forwards and use the cats eyes to gauge speed so that you can always stop in the distance you can see to be clear.... (this might mean you need to kill the speed, eg approaching a crest, or you can put the boot down, eg the catseyes are running away from you)

Chris

And while he's looking at it, he's not looking at the road. (Yes I know you said "glances" above. How often, and for how long? Similar to mirror checks (one every 8 seconds or so), more often, less often?_

I'm with Chris and Mondo on this one. Watch the road, not gadgets!

You only need to do it the once to gauge the next mile or two ahead - and you wouldn't be glancing where it was 'not safe to'. And this extra info might just avert an accident .............

.... or cause one ...

How much road you can see depends on the zoom scale on the display. If there's 2 miles of road on the screen, it's going to take you a significant time to decode it. More time not looking where you're going...

.... or cause one ...

How much road you can see depends on the zoom scale on the display. If there's 2 miles of road on the screen, it's going to take you a significant time to decode it. More time not looking where you're going...

That's almost like saying you shouldn't glance down every now and again at those new-fangled speedo thingys they fit nowadays.

It can often be heard that people are worried about driving "progressively" on roads they don't know. I think it's dangerous to think that you "know the road" I think leads to complacency and often ends in disaster.

One of the revelations once I started on these courses was how much progress I was able to make on unfamiliar roads, just by the reading the road - it also amazed me just how many signs and clues there were that up until then I had been missing.

As I pointed out to Paul, I'd only done bits of that route a couple of times before and I try and demo on routes where the majority of roads are unknown just to show that it's possible and that I'm seeing things afresh as they are.

Of course, it's possible to drive known routes better, but I agree that there can be a certain amount of complacency or even "tuning out" and going onto autopilot.

Chris

I can only speak for my own area when I say that the majority of fatal accidents where speed is a factor involve drivers local to that area and who are very familiar with the road.

This declaration is based on fact, not just my opinion.

with reference to the satnav, i dont sit there staring at the screen, i listen to its guidence when driving and if im not sure about the road ahead i take a quick glance, with my sat nav being in the position it is i can look at screen and road in one look so im not taking my eyes off the road. I beleive sat nav have made many people safer on the road, however it has also produced (or highlighted) many other idiots.

I can only speak for my own area when I say that the majority of fatal accidents where speed is a factor involve drivers local to that area and who are very familiar with the road.

This declaration is based on fact, not just my opinion.

There was a statistic years ago where it stated that something like 90% of accidents happen within a mile of home - because people are blase ('know' the area etc) and don't take into account the actions of other motorists. The figures are probably changed somewhat now as so much more mileage is done these days.

Click me

You are travelling up the purple road in the middle of the screen. How far away is the next junction on the left? Quick, you only have a second or so, now look back at the road ... !

So you glance at your mirror, good. Now you glance at the speedo (how often do you do this at night?). Now you glance at your satnav (damn where was I again?). Quick look at the road (still dark, but I've got a bright pink line running up the middle - oh, that'll be a persistent image from the satnav). Looks clear, back to the satnav (damn, where was I again?)...

BANG!!!!

(that screen only has about a 1/4 mile radius displayed, btw)

I can only speak for my own area when I say that the majority of fatal accidents where speed is a factor involve drivers local to that area and who are very familiar with the road.

This declaration is based on fact, not just my opinion.

Except that the "fact" is actually the collected opinions of the traffic officers who were asked to decide whether or not speed was a factor in the accident they're just attending. Nobody can say factually whether it was a cause, or not.

Better to say "where speed was considered to be a factor", imho.

Now you glance at the speedo (how often do you do this at night?).

Enough times.

We'll agree to disagree - well, I will anyway :P

:iagree: with both of Nicks last 2.

Enough times.

So do I. I don't disagree on that one. It's pretty infrequent at night, and I have my instrument lighting about as dim as it will go while still being able to distinguish numbers, but I don't want too many distractions when I need all my vision to see.

Except that the "fact" is actually the collected opinions of the traffic officers who were asked to decide whether or not speed was a factor in the accident they're just attending. Nobody can say factually whether it was a cause, or not.

Better to say "where speed was considered to be a factor", imho.

Fair point to a great degree. Although it goes beyond "collected opinions" and and is more often decided at the very least by a very large balance of probability or better still, eye witnesses.

I'm not a Traffic Cop (and have no desire to be) but I'm aware of the very extensive investigation that goes into each and every fatal road collision having first hand experience of same. Again, I can only speak for my own Force.

So do I. I don't disagree on that one. It's pretty infrequent at night, and I have my instrument lighting about as dim as it will go while still being able to distinguish numbers, but I don't want too many distractions when I need all my vision to see.

I've actually found I've had to check it more often recently at night cos the Fabby is a lot faster than the old Cav - so have had to pull down the speed quite a lot.

What really worries me though - is how you knew what SatNav we have :eek:

(only had it a month).

Fair point to a great degree. Although it goes beyond "collected opinions" and and is more often decided at the very least by a very large balance of probability or better still, eye witnesses.

I'm not a Traffic Cop (and have no desire to be) but I'm aware of the very extensive investigation that goes into each and every fatal road collision having first hand experience of same. Again, I can only speak for my own Force.

If you were an eye witness to a fatal (and I hope you won't be or if you have been, commiserations), and a traffic officer came up to you and said "was he/she going too fast?" what would you be most likely to answer?

So do I. I don't disagree on that one. It's pretty infrequent at night, and I have my instrument lighting about as dim as it will go while still being able to distinguish numbers, but I don't want too many distractions when I need all my vision to see.

Is there another function for panel dimmers besides turning panel illumination to minimum? :confused:

And is there any other use for vision, other than to see? :P

Chris

If you were an eye witness to a fatal (and I hope you won't be or if you have been, commiserations), and a traffic officer came up to you and said "was he/she going too fast?" what would you be most likely to answer?

A Traffic Cop (one who is trained in Collision Investigation at least) would not ask someone if the victim was driving too fast.

I think it's important to realise that we don't declare that an accident was caused by excessive speed but that it may have been a factor. Nobody has ever died because they have gone too fast (except perhaps when suffering from too much G force which isn't applicable here). They die because they leave the road / hit another car or whatever. And they don't do this because they are driving too fast but because they don't have time to react to an unexpected situation or do not know the physical limitations of the car they are driving.

Collision Investigators are only interested in the causes of the accident - not speculation. Eye witnesses are good for advising vehicle movements prior to impact etc but there are other methods which allow for calculation of speed.

Your name isn't Dave, by any chance?

Your name isn't Dave, by any chance?

????

Nope. My username should give a fairly big clue to my name. I take it you know a Cop called Dave up my neck of the woods (Aberdeen) then do you?

Nah, an ex collision investigator from another location. Just had a familiar ring. Ignore me....

Nah, an ex collision investigator from another location. Just had a familiar ring. Ignore me....

Like I said, I'm not in Traffic so couldn't be a CI. Nice debating with you. Off to work now. Friday so will likely have to get into loads of nfights with drunken ar5es.