As the law has now changed for people to brew their own biodiesel tax free (up to 2500 litres a year) i was wondering how many people with a diesel are making their own?

My brother has a Citreon xm turbo diesel estate and has come back from the supermarket with 20 litres of vegetable oil and has poured it straight in with no problem, working out at 60p a litre. The garage wants 101p a litre of mineral diesel!!!

I would be interested to hear how felly's run on biodiesel as i am tempted to make the switch to the smoke!!

Also is anyone running a petrol felly on bioethanol also known as E85? Apparently you can get a black box for about £400 to change the pulse rate of the injectors and adjust the ignition timing to suit the fuel being poured in, meaning you can use petrol or Bioethanol. Although only a couple of pence cheaper at the pump Bio ethanol is 104 octane which may interest a few people here!! Morrisons also sell this fuel.

I believe Decron is / was - there was a thread about it recently.

Sorry - looked it up, was in Freedom section.

sounds like a good idea,

but don't you have to have a separate fuel system in the boot to use them?

will 104 octane ethanol produce the same performance as petrol?

(then again saying that it shouldnt matter because an engines power is determined by the ratio of compressed air, not fuel! ) - I leant that today at college! (Bike mechanics)

sounds like a good idea,

but don't you have to have a separate fuel system in the boot to use them?

quote]

no seperate fuel system as the black box controls everything even if mixed with unleaded.

   ::  GreenFuels Ltd.  ::   Europe's  largest  Biodiesel  equipment  supplier    

the black box sounds like an expensive programmable ecu to me.

I'd definitely make a Felicia diesel my next car if it could run straight veggie oil but my guess is it would kill the injectors without being pre-heated to thin it out.

I have looked in to this as would love to convert. SVO or Straight Veggie oil in a Felly is not recommended due to the Lucas type fuel pump - it has been done but requires a pre-heating system - otherwise the diesel pump will seize due to veg oil being too thick causing lubrication problems - hot (pre-heated) oil is less of a problem as is thinner - closer to mineral diesel. Bio diesel should be fine or change the fuel pump from a Lucas to a Bosch (I have no idea if that is possible - please tell if already done). I have tried a 10% blend with no ill effects, but no long term testing - basically I dont do enough miles to justify a big conversion - just my hate of fuel pumps that sdparks the interest!!! .

I ran my old Citroen ZX 1.9Diesel on a big of veggie oil a while back. I belive that they have a bosch fuel pump if im not mistaken.

If you mix if with unleaded fuel or a certain white spirit and leave to blend for a week i believe that this lowers the viscosity and makes it perfectly safe to pour straight in.

But to be honest, it seems to work just as well having a bit of diesel in your tank and putting some straight it... my dad has a T reg VW sharan 1.9TDI and has been doing this for over a year now without any problems...

Just make sure you dont put purely veggie oil in as you probably wont be able to start from cold!

Ive seen a thread or page somewhere with a red felicia diesel converted to veg oil (proper tank in boot for diesel to start and stop engine on).

Edit: Found the link... is on a website titled DieselVeg and also contains lots of other useful links and ideas about running on veg oil you could run your diesel felicia for about 24,000 miles in the new allowance before having to pay duty tax!!!!:

Skoda Felicia

E85 becomes more and more common in Sweden (govt. pays "environment bonus" of £ 740 if you buy a new car meeting "environment friendly" standard). But fuel consumption is much higher! Multiply the E85 price by 1,35 if you want to compare with petrol.

Result: Lots of people buy E85 cars, collect the bonus and run on petrol...

You may also have trouble in winter. Below freezing point you'll need a coolant heater (probably an electric, don't know if there are "petrol heaters" that run on E85). Or a dual tank system so that you start on petrol and switch to E85 when the engine has reached normal working temp (as with old paraffin tractors).

will 104 octane ethanol produce the same performance as petrol?

(then again saying that it shouldnt matter because an engines power is determined by the ratio of compressed air, not fuel! ) - I leant that today at college! (Bike mechanics)

The increased knock resistance of 104 octane E85 allows the timing to be advanced, which as I understand is where the ECU changes are required, and where the majority of the power gains come from.

The Stoichiometric point (the "ideal" air/fuel ratio for complete combustion) of E85 is also different to unleaded, so more fuel can be burned in the same amount of air (as there is more O2 in the fuel), again allowing for performance improvements, with the down side of higher consumption, for the same engine speed.

Most boxes I have seen simply plug in between the standard ECU and the injectors, and alter the injector pulse length, so you get more fuel delivery, I presume based on information from the Lambda sensor. I would assume though that this would require a wide band sensor, not the usual narrow band, so not fully up to speed with the setup, but I'll keep reading up on it.

The best way to get the most out of E85 is a custom dedicated map, but this would require multiple maps to run both fuels, so would be a Revo job, or if you're getting really involved, a Megasquirt or Emerald type aftermarket ECU.

As for biodiesel, processing kits are available for about £500, I think from the greenfuels link in the post a few above, which produce biodiesel at about 9p a liter from used chip oil. This will work out far cheaper and generally better for your engine than pouring virgin vegi oil into your tank. Based on £1 a liter of mineral diesel, and 2500l used a year (the diy tax limit), you could buy the kit and still save £1775 in the first year. That should get you about 24 000 miles in an octy.

Phil

a kid i used to work with ran his fiesta d on svo off the shelf at tesco, 25l of oil and then 5l of derv, he had no probs at all and he put the empty containers in the recycle in tesco car park

yes, make it in the kitchen, but keep it in the garage (especially as i live in the most northen town in UK mainland), and also "cough" red diesel "cough" mix it with that and its all good

Looks like veggie oil is getting more expensive too now.

Seems like veggie oil killed this person's car after 3000 miles even with dual tank system and pre-heater Vegetable oil fuels database

Seems like veggie oil killed this person's car after 3000 miles even with dual tank system and pre-heater Vegetable oil fuels database

Did you read the blurb? Lucas pump running on 100% SVO and he was messing about with all sorts of configurations of heaters, coolers & heat exchangers - not to mention he was using filtered oil, not "clean" oil. (Not that it makes MUCH difference, just a bit thicker as he mentions himself).

Bosch pump = 100% SVO OK

Lucas pump = mixed oils OK

HTH

As for Ethanol, the amount of energy put into creating it from plants (tractors, fertilisers, pesticides, refining, transportation etc.) is actually MORE per litre than can actually be got from it in even an economical car!

It's most certainly not an economical bio-alternative to fossil fuel based petroleum distillates.

Theres a guy in our office who runs a 306 TD on Veg oil.

E85 though? not many filling stations but there are a few cars out FFV - Flexi fuel Vehicle that run on normal unleaded and E85.

I know a couple of people who're running Bosch pump PSA cars on straight veggie oil. They're a bit smokey on startup, but no other issues.

Don't even think about it with a Lucas EPIC, or with unit injectors or common rail systems though.

Hmmm- so let me get this straight...

Felly D= lucas fuel pump.

Means can only use oil mixed with Derv or Unleaded to thin.

I can see a plan forming:thumbup:

After Christmas, I may just avail myself of a felly diseasal and try it on different blends, creating a post that folks can follow directly.

my mate has a chavalier diesel

and he uses a mix of £15 diesel and the rest of the tank veg oil.

He jokingly said it runs better/ faster on oil, but its much cheaper!

i have been on a website called vegetableoildiesel.co.uk and there are a few testimonials from felly diesel drivers with no issues running 50/50

I was just looking at domestic heating oil prices (28-second Kerosene & 35-second Kerosene) over the past year and I came upon this: Frequently Asked Questions which says that for every litre of cooking oil you use in your car, you have to pay HMC&E (The Govt.) 21p in excise duty. This even applies to recycled cooking oil you settle & filter at home yourself :eek:

It is interesting to note though, that domestic heating oil is slightly lighter than mineral diesel oil and cooking oil is slightly heavier. DHO is 40ppl and can be added at approx 10% to diesel in cold weather... I would imagine that a 20/80 to 30/70 DHO/SVO mix might have some desirable properties (Old Merc diesels will run exclusively on DHO )

I must add that whilst Bosch pumps will be fine with this, I'd still question an expert on the possible effect it may have on a Lucas set-up.

HTH :P

BTW I don't condone withholding taxes (AS IF!!!)

All change since then...

Vegetable oil used as fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the UK, it is legal once duty on the fuel is paid.[9] In the UK, drivers using SVO/PPO have been prosecuted for failure to pay duty to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. The rate of taxation on SVO was originally set at a reduced rate of 27.1p per litre, but in late 2005, HMRC started to enforce the full diesel excise rate of 47.1p per litre.

Following a review late 2006[10], HM Revenue & Customs has announced changes regarding the administration and collection of excise duty of biofuels and other fuel substitutes (Veg Oil). The changes came into effect on June 30, 2007. There is no longer a requirement to register (enter premises) or pay duty on vegetable oil used as road fuel if you 'produce' (use) less than 2500 litres per year.[11] For those producing over this threshold the biodiesel rate now applies.

To replace my Felly I have just bought a Citroen 1.9TD Xantia. So I take it I am able to use a mix of shop bought veggie oil and pump bought diesel? Result!

On an XUDT19, no problem.

If you have a local fish and chip shop or the like, you may also have luck getting their oil for free, unless someone got there before you, as they usually have to pay to dispose of it. You have to filter it down and add something to it I think.