Hi

I thought some people might be interested in my opinions of the Grande Punto 1.9 JTD Sporting that I test drove this morning.

Please bear in mind these are my opinions and I'm sure other people (sharkrider ) have had different experiences.

Firstly, seating yourself in the drivers’ seat you immediately feel along way from the front of the car. The dashboard slopes away from you for what seems like at least a mile eventually meeting with the windscreen. It's quite strange, you feel slightly detached from the car and it's completely different to the Fabia vRS which in comparison feels a lot more compact. In fact everything seems to slope away from you - for example, the controls for the mirrors and electric windows which sit on the drivers’ door arm rest; it feels akin to sitting at the top of a very steep rolling hill.

My initial impressions of the interior were it's smart, feels well built and looks good, apart, (and this is a big apart) from the horrible scratchy purpley? shiny (I'm colour blind so can't explain the exact colour but believe me, even being colour blind I felt a sickness in the bottom of my stomach when looking at it) plastic swathe that runs across the whole dash. What were those odd moustachioed men thinking? It's tacky and really not necessary. Solid black would be fine. No really, if people had the option of changing that plastic I'm pretty sure no one (save a few educationally challenged locals) would have this in their car.

Moving on and feeling a little nauseous I'll describe the seats. These were the standard fabric ones with odd little silver bubbles on them. They're really comfortable and although I'm not a large person, hold you very well and look good. Plus there's no light bits of fabric either (what was Skoda thinking - my seats are ruined), they're dark black and made from a tough looking but soft to the touch material.

The only other observation I made was the lack of space in the rear (the 1.9 JTD only comes with a three door option). My legs are long and I'm pretty sure if I sat behind myself (which I've only ever done once before after having a weird out of body experience after taking some Ketamine) I'd struggle to get comfy.

Pulling out of the garage (the sales manager let me go out on my own, he obviously doesn't know me at all) straightaway the car felt sluggish. Now I realise I drive a modified near 180bhp vRS which really pumps out the power at all revs, but this Punto felt exceptionally sluggish. However, as I looked at the lovely looking white speedo trying to ascertain if I was actually increasing in speed I noticed a little light showing 'City'. Now I didn't check but I assumed this meant 'No Power' so I turned off this optioned, and also turned off the ABS (I think it was labelled ABS) and floored it. It seemed to pick up and bearing in mind it was cold, started going.

Now my second impression, after giving it some time to warm up and finding some open road, was one of mild disappointment. I know it's not modified but the punch I felt when first getting in my unmodified Fabia vRS straight after it was delivered and haring it along an open B road was one of immense joy. The feeling was great, the sound was good and the cornering solid (I'd never gone round a tight 90 at 60+ mph before) - I just loved the vRS from the moment I owned it. I also loved that strange feeling as the turbo finally decides to spin up and wheeze ever so slightly as it pushes the air through it and even though you’re not going stupidly fast it just feels and sounds nice! I must say before I go on, I didn't get this feeling or hear that sound once in the Punto, and believe me I wanted to, I was giving it every chance I could!

Now - there is no pickup at early revs 0-2000 - it just crawls, then it starts to go a bit and then at about 4000 starts to mumble and at 4500 phones the dealer and starts complaining about abuse. Once the revs are up you can keep hitting the 'powerband' (that's using the word in the loosest sense) and you can keep it moving forward - just not very quickly...

I took the Punto around some country lanes and found a bit of deserted road where I immediately floored it, this time rolling in 3rd and I must say the punch never came in (I waited, honestly, I waited and I waited) and the speedo, well just say it must of been ill because it was really acting lethargic. The engine also sounded very noisy compared to my vRS and much more unrefined. Who knows, maybe a remap to 170+ (if this is achievable) would make a world of difference, but for me, this standard setup was very sluggish and really not even near hot, and more like at the bottom of warm hatch territory.

The cornering felt ok not much body roll (not compared to the vRS standard anyway) - but the steering was incredibly light. It's a complete opposite to the vRS. It feels like it's designed for a lady, yes a lady, and really doesn't feel, well right. At speed it stiffens slightly but it's still incredibly light - personally I don't like it.

The brakes are great. They stop you really quickly and even with the ABS off on a wet road felt really good.

Other than the lack of performance, I must say from the outside it looks really good. FIAT are really making leaps and bounds with their designs – I mean the new Bravo looks great, and so does the new Panda. However, this in itself, is not enough to sway me.

When I got back in my vRS I knew I wasn't going to the 'red side'. Perhaps the new 180bhp Abarth will be different and change my mind (not that I could afford one) so I guess I’m sticking with my Fabia vRS and I must say, I feel happy about that!

I definitely won’t be moving forums anytime soon, so I’ll look forward to reading your comments.

Cheers

giblet

PS sharkrider – I’d like to drive a remapped one to see how much better the car would feel as I’m sure you’ll tell me it’s great. Its just I’m not going to spend what is quite a lot of money in my books to find out for myself.

Hi

I thought some people might be interested in my opinions of the Grande Punto 1.9 JTD Sporting that I test drove this morning.

Please bear in mind these are my opinions and I'm sure other people (sharkrider ) have had different experiences.

Firstly, seating yourself in the drivers’ seat you immediately feel along way from the front of the car. The dashboard slopes away from you for what seems like at least a mile eventually meeting with the windscreen. It's quite strange, you feel slightly detached from the car and it's completely different to the Fabia vRS which in comparison feels a lot more compact. In fact everything seems to slope away from you - for example, the controls for the mirrors and electric windows which sit on the drivers’ door arm rest; it feels akin to sitting at the top of a very steep rolling hill.

My initial impressions of the interior were it's smart, feels well built and looks good, apart, (and this is a big apart) from the horrible scratchy purpley? shiny (I'm colour blind so can't explain the exact colour but believe me, even being colour blind I felt a sickness in the bottom of my stomach when looking at it) plastic swathe that runs across the whole dash. What were those odd moustachioed men thinking? It's tacky and really not necessary. Solid black would be fine. No really, if people had the option of changing that plastic I'm pretty sure no one (save a few educationally challenged locals) would have this in their car.

Moving on and feeling a little nauseous I'll describe the seats. These were the standard fabric ones with odd little silver bubbles on them. They're really comfortable and although I'm not a large person, hold you very well and look good. Plus there's no light bits of fabric either (what was Skoda thinking - my seats are ruined), they're dark black and made from a tough looking but soft to the touch material.

The only other observation I made was the lack of space in the rear (the 1.9 JTD only comes with a three door option). My legs are long and I'm pretty sure if I sat behind myself (which I've only ever done once before after having a weird out of body experience after taking some Ketamine) I'd struggle to get comfy.

Pulling out of the garage (the sales manager let me go out on my own, he obviously doesn't know me at all) straightaway the car felt sluggish. Now I realise I drive a modified near 180bhp vRS which really pumps out the power at all revs, but this Punto felt exceptionally sluggish. However, as I looked at the lovely looking white speedo trying to ascertain if I was actually increasing in speed I noticed a little light showing 'City'. Now I didn't check but I assumed this meant 'No Power' so I turned off this optioned, and also turned off the ABS (I think it was labelled ABS) and floored it. It seemed to pick up and bearing in mind it was cold, started going.

Now my second impression, after giving it some time to warm up and finding some open road, was one of mild disappointment. I know it's not modified but the punch I felt when first getting in my unmodified Fabia vRS straight after it was delivered and haring it along an open B road was one of immense joy. The feeling was great, the sound was good and the cornering solid (I'd never gone round a tight 90 at 60+ mph before) - I just loved the vRS from the moment I owned it. I also loved that strange feeling as the turbo finally decides to spin up and wheeze ever so slightly as it pushes the air through it and even though you’re not going stupidly fast it just feels and sounds nice! I must say before I go on, I didn't get this feeling or hear that sound once in the Punto, and believe me I wanted to, I was giving it every chance I could!

Now - there is no pickup at early revs 0-2000 - it just crawls, then it starts to go a bit and then at about 4000 starts to mumble and at 4500 phones the dealer and starts complaining about abuse. Once the revs are up you can keep hitting the 'powerband' (that's using the word in the loosest sense) and you can keep it moving forward - just not very quickly...

I took the Punto around some country lanes and found a bit of deserted road where I immediately floored it, this time rolling in 3rd and I must say the punch never came in (I waited, honestly, I waited and I waited) and the speedo, well just say it must of been ill because it was really acting lethargic. The engine also sounded very noisy compared to my vRS and much more unrefined. Who knows, maybe a remap to 170+ (if this is achievable) would make a world of difference, but for me, this standard setup was very sluggish and really not even near hot, and more like at the bottom of warm hatch territory.

The cornering felt ok not much body roll (not compared to the vRS standard anyway) - but the steering was incredibly light. It's a complete opposite to the vRS. It feels like it's designed for a lady, yes a lady, and really doesn't feel, well right. At speed it stiffens slightly but it's still incredibly light - personally I don't like it.

The brakes are great. They stop you really quickly and even with the ABS off on a wet road felt really good.

Other than the lack of performance, I must say from the outside it looks really good. FIAT are really making leaps and bounds with their designs – I mean the new Bravo looks great, and so does the new Panda. However, this in itself, is not enough to sway me.

When I got back in my vRS I knew I wasn't going to the 'red side'. Perhaps the new 180bhp Abarth will be different and change my mind (not that I could afford one) so I guess I’m sticking with my Fabia vRS and I must say, I feel happy about that!

I definitely won’t be moving forums anytime soon, so I’ll look forward to reading your comments.

Cheers

giblet

PS sharkrider – I’d like to drive a remapped one to see how much better the car would feel as I’m sure you’ll tell me it’s great. Its just I’m not going to spend what is quite a lot of money in my books to find out for myself.

Interesting review, i look the look of the Punto, but i think the Fabia VRs is more fun.

good review.....

when I first drove it, I felt really dissapointed with the performance too... it definatly doesnt feel as fast as a fabia vRS, but you also have to remember the different engine designs, this is a common rail multijet unit, where the power delivery is liner... there is no big punch between 2 and 4k, even with it remapped, it drives more like a petrol

the PD unit has a characteristic power delivery, that gives you big (sledghammer in the back) feel, common rails arn't like that.... it feels slow in comparison to a fabia vRS, but on the road in the real world, it actually isnt, the first meet I went to witout mine remapped (standard power) Jason (devonutopia) was following me, and ask him if it was fast enough! lol... no problem keeping up with the vRS's, I think its just a feeling........

after the map, I've been to a meet with Mac67 chasing me in his remapped (180bhp) vRS, and there was absolutley nothing in it..... (these people will verify this) so I think its just a feeling, with how the m-jet delivers its power, and how the PD delivers its power.....

the steering you would get used to, its variable power steering which means the ratio tightens up between the wheel and the road wheels the faster you go, so its actually alot sharper than a vRS, but cetrainly light... some people really wont like this, but I really don't mind when I get in a vRS now (thanks postmanpat, for letting me play with the handling differences with the jabba ARB) it feels heavey, and lifeless.....

as you say, these are all opinions....

the only thing I really diasagree with you about is the noise and refinement, it is SO much better than the 1.9PD its shocking! no vibration, and not even half the old rattle as a vRS! lol..... so don't know why the one you drove seemed worse :(

and also remember with trim issues ect, the NCAP 5* bluetooth ESP equipped GP sporting can be had for £11k, the same price as a new fabia 2 105 diesel (actually the fabia is probably more, for just a basic model!) so I don't really mind the plasicy interiour ect... you always get what you pay for! lol....

how many miles did your tester have on it? mine felt espesially weak when it was new, took about 9,000 miles before it livened up

still a good review

edit: I see you're in the midlands... can you make it up to the act'n'fiddle meet? I'd be happy to let you have a drive of mine (or any other members who are comming to a meet and want a play )

Cheers sharkrider, I must reiterate that it is by no means a bad car, I just didn't get the wow factor from the performance that I was expecting (maybe unfairly) as I'm so used to my vRS.

I understand about the multijets linear power delivery - I must admit I didn't know that until you explained it. That makes sense now.

As for the engine noise, it did seem loud, but then I'm so used to the sound my vRS makes I probably subconciously ignore it. It had 5k on it.

Cheers for the offer of the drive, but unfortunately I'm way down in South East Kent pronounced Sowf Eest Kennt (my profiles probably wrong - or you we're looking at MikeW).

If I'm ever going up North (thats anywhere above London for me) I'll let you know.

Cheers again (jesus I'd be ****ed by now if I was down the pub the amount of Cheers I've been saying)

Good reviews guys, each with their own merits. Still the fiat sounds like a decent enough motor. Think the VRS has more presence though.

Good reviews guys, each with their own merits. Still the fiat sounds like a decent enough motor. Think the VRS has more presence though.

I like the looks of them both for different reasons..... the fiat is pretty , without being girly (clio-ish), and modern on the inside, and although some people don't like the look of the vRS, I think it has a nice "meanacing" look about it, especially from the front.....

I run a VRS and my son runs a new grande punto sporting 130.

We switch between them all the time.

The Punto is no where near as lively as the VRS. It may be as quick but its not so much fun. Its also not as economical. Strange its not as rapid as I understand its lighter in weight and same BHP, although the VRS develops more torque.

However, the Punto looks great - modern, sleek, and I love the three door uncluttered lines. Both on the drive next to each other, I have to say the Punto looks beautiful, especially in red with the panoramic sunroof.

Its also a very nice place to be inside. Its much quieter than the VRS and less wearing on a run.

The crunch is which would I choose. It would be the VRS and my son would say the same but he didnt want the same car as mom and dad, did he.

Ps the city button just affects the steering - makes it lighter for parking etc.

Does the Fiat have climate control & ipod/mp3/cd multichanger as std?

All you running the 1.9PD vRS and who are thinking about switching to the new vRS when it comes it will be common rail and that means linear performance & lower MPG.

Also having driven the 2.0 140 PD that unit is far less peaky at the 1800-2500 range over the 1.9PD.

Does the Fiat have climate control & ipod/mp3/cd multichanger as std?

All you running the 1.9PD vRS and who are thinking about switching to the new vRS when it comes it will be common rail and that means linear performance & lower MPG.

Also having driven the 2.0 140 PD that unit is far less peaky at the 1800-2500 range over the 1.9PD.

1) the GP has blue and me, a windows based system with two USB ports in the glovebox, (I use one with an 8 GIG memory stick with all my music on it, which is accesed through voice control, or the steering wheel controls, and the other to power my satnav) this system uses bluetooth to connect to your phone (I dont even take my phone out of my pocket, it just connects up on startup of the car, and to make a call, i simply press the windows button, and say "call Mel" for example.... ) the head unit will play mps discs, but to be honest with a possible unlimited memory for music through the USB ports, a CD stacker is kinda obsolete... for example, I generally have my music on "shuffle" but if I simple say "Folders" or "artists" I can flip through the folders in the memory stick, using the steering wheel controls, all shown on the multi-function display, and choose , say, all the kieser cheifs albums, ect ect

2) as standard it has "thermostatic" temp control like the fabia vRS has... climate control is an optional extra

3) people who have driven the GP all say (including me) slower acceleration, and no power "shove" like the vRS has, but mine now has a genuine 280 lbs/ft of torque , so it really does shift, even if it doesn't give you that big shove, and the power curve was a flat line, above 150bhp, all the way between 2.5k and 4.5k, so its very "usable"..

(of course this is remapped, standard, I believe it is 130 bhp and 0-60 in 9.3 seconds, and some "standard" vRS's are giving 155bhp, and 0-60 in 8 seconds, so the GP WILL feel slower......)

2) as standard it has "thermostatic" temp control like the fabia vRS has... climate control is an optional extra

What, in that it's commonly broken, blows air at whichever random temperature it feels like and needs to get fixed by a dealer?

I had a GP1.2 on hire in Italy over the summer. I thought that it was going to be **** but I was pleasantly surprised. Obviously it was no rocket but handled well and gave nice even power.

Agree on the common rail front. It does produce a linear power curve which doesn't feel as agressive as the PD's sudden shove. But I've found they rev a bit better and are more petrol like to drive. Also quieter, especially at idle as the common rail system allows much more flexibility in tuning the injection cycles/ frequencies etc.

But, with the lower injection pressures they inevitably produce less torque and lower mpg in standard form.

Personally, I like the PD shove, barbaric as it may be. It makes the car feel faster than it is.

Great reviews chaps...my missus has a 53 Punto 1.2 8v and while it could never match the vRS for power etc, I have so much more confidence in its ability to corner. It's really fun little machine, but could do with a few more horses.

I was considering a Punto HGT until I bought the vRS, but there were no decent ones locally.

You probably will think that I'm completely mental after reading my review, but after having a go in my friends newly modified GP on Saturday I've changed my mind and ordered one.

Yes - it is a lot more responsive and having understood sharrkriders comments about the power delivery I looked at it in another light.

I've hopefully made the right decision. My local dealer gave me a reasonable price for my Fabia Feb 06 55 @ £7500 and I managed to get my local dealer to come within £300 of DC Cooks internet price of £11738 @ £12000 on the nose.

This bearing in mind is with the dealer seeing my Fabia, with slight knocks to boot (I used to reverse into my drive and literally pushed up against the plastic wheely bin - not realising that the lid was putting little dimbles in my boot. I saw the dimples one day, there's 4 of them, and blamed my local garage for them, until rather embarrassingly I admitted to them that I'd found the cause....) dirty, bobbly seats and a small scuff on the front offside bumper which incidentally was a very close miss with another Fabia head on (neither one of our faults I may add).

The PX price is also fixed until my car is delivered (factory order, ambient white, leather, tints, sub and skydome) in early April.

I've already looked at remap options - the celtictuning.co.uk 190bhp one seems the best (yes I have seen all the negative comments, mainly from one person, but to be fair I've also seen celtictunings replies - and searching on the net there are no other complaints).

Roll on Fiat... fingers crossed I've not made a bad decision - and if I have it's too late now. I guess I'll somehow manage to put up with the steering and the plastic swathe too....

Good on you mate. I don't think it's a bad decision just cos it's a 'different' one.

You probably will think that I'm completely mental after reading my review, but after having a go in my friends newly modified GP on Saturday I've changed my mind and ordered one.

Yes - it is a lot more responsive and having understood sharrkriders comments about the power delivery I looked at it in another light.

I've hopefully made the right decision. My local dealer gave me a reasonable price for my Fabia Feb 06 55 @ £7500 and I managed to get my local dealer to come within £300 of DC Cooks internet price of £11738 @ £12000 on the nose.

This bearing in mind is with the dealer seeing my Fabia, with slight knocks to boot (I used to reverse into my drive and literally pushed up against the plastic wheely bin - not realising that the lid was putting little dimbles in my boot. I saw the dimples one day, there's 4 of them, and blamed my local garage for them, until rather embarrassingly I admitted to them that I'd found the cause....) dirty, bobbly seats and a small scuff on the front offside bumper which incidentally was a very close miss with another Fabia head on (neither one of our faults I may add).

The PX price is also fixed until my car is delivered (factory order, ambient white, leather, tints, sub and skydome) in early April.

I've already looked at remap options - the celtictuning.co.uk 190bhp one seems the best (yes I have seen all the negative comments, mainly from one person, but to be fair I've also seen celtictunings replies - and searching on the net there are no other complaints).

Roll on Fiat... fingers crossed I've not made a bad decision - and if I have it's too late now. I guess I'll somehow manage to put up with the steering and the plastic swathe too....

you'll be happy with it.... its just a different driving experiance to the vRS....leather, tints and skydome are nice options, the white goes really well with the skydome, i've seen it in the flesh

and as for the performance I just waited until I'd run mine in before I re-mapped it (4,000 miles) remember it will give poorer performance and mpg till it gets a few thousand miles under the belt...

and the remap? well as for the company you suggest, i do remember a few members on here suffering from blown turbo's, and the 190? hhmmm angel told me they mapped one to 190bhp, and the clutch lasted for 2,000 miles before it died.... I suggest a more symathetic map, mine only RR'd at 157bhp (but 280lbs/ft!) , and keeps up well with the mapped fabias, really nothing in it, it may feel different under acceleration, but ask any of them who were at the lakes meet on sunday, its certainly fast enough and you'll get better traction out of the corners!

good luck and don't be a stranger, bring it along to a few of the meets

Didnt have an out and out dash with your Punto on saturday, but it seemed to keep up with the Remapped Fabia's from where i was sitting.

Not my cuppa tea though, sounds nicer than mine however...

But its a fiat :confused:

The success of style over substance?

It's like owning an Alfa - lovely cars but you know they're going to let you down. Having said that, I have no idea how Skoda keep being rated so highly in the JD Power surveys. They're far from reliable with lots of silly little things going wrong that simply shouldn't.

IIRC, Fiat pinched one of VAG's top quality control bods which may explain the rise in Fiat's reliability and the decline in VAG's?

Chris

Ooooh.....now there's a piece of gossip for ya.

Haven't Renault done the same thing too recently?

Ooooh.....now there's a piece of gossip for ya.

Haven't Renault done the same thing too recently?

renault need it..... I really like renault cars, the new twingo turbo (GT I think?) seems like a cracking car, but every time it floods up here, the only cars on the side of the road after the water are renaults!

my dad's old laguna (previous model) is like driving an armchair...... really nice cruiser (if you're old )