[LouisTsui]

Right, I got a letter from my estate agent, it says they (and landlord) want £20 more each month, and £50 on top for administration to renew the tenancy!!!

So guys, please tell me it is VERY common for agent to charge extra to renew contract. I mean, 50 pounds, how could they justify that!:thumbdwn:

Louis

[Babs]

Because they're c*nts.

[LouisTsui]

I really don't understand about the administration fees. Why tenant has to pay for it? Landlord is paying some sort of fees to agent anyway, isn't it? I remember, 2 years ago when I look for a flat to rent. I found one, agreed on rental price with the agent, so I went to their office to sign contract etc. And that agent tried to charge me 320 pounds for administration!! I really didn't expect that, so I walk away. A week later, they phoned me back said that the admin fees is negotiable, which they said is fixed when I was in their office, but I had found another place already. Well, I bet that agent didn't tell the landlord the reason I drop out is because of the sky high admin fees.

[cheezemonkhai]

Because if in doubt bone the tenant as £50 is cheaper than moving out :(

Is that £20 increase per month less than 5% of your rent price?

[bengie]

politely ask if they have people wanting to rent your flat and if not tell them to stick the £50 chrage up their A$$.

i simply wouldn't pay it as its rediculous, they have you over a barrel with paying rent in advance, having to give notice if moving and then charging you to save them the hassle of finding a new tenant.

[heresmo]

Not sure what sort of contract or tenancy agreement you have signed. If a tenant moves out, the landlord will pay a "significant" fee to the agent to find a new tenant and will probably have some cost re redecorating, plus might have a rent hiatus if the property is left empty whilst finding a new "suitable" tenant. (So, they'd like an income of £290 this year, but will suffer cost of £5,000+ if you move out). Good for the agent, not for the landlord.

Are you able to communicate with the landlord directly? Some leave everything to their agents. Are you entitled to renew in your contract? If so, a cost should be noted IMO.

As interest rates are expected to fall in the UK, rental prices tend to follow, so I'd arm yourself with all the facts you can (e.g. rental of similar properties, contract terms, downright money logic as the agent is meant to be acting in the best interest of his landlord) and start negotiating with everything you have...

I'm not a financial advisor, just someone who thinks the numbers don't add up.

Regards

Mo

['daiking']

A week later, they phoned me back said that the admin fees is negotiable, which they said is fixed when I was in their office, but I had found another place already.

This is the most important part - they are trying it on, fees like this are always negotiable, they're just free money to the agencies. There are some hints towards good advice in the posts so far but they need tidying up.

Up here in Manchester it is normal to have to pay high fees and they will try to charge a renewal fee too. Its easy money for them and it sucks :thumbdwn:. Also there is provision in a typical Assured Shorthold Tenancy (AST) agreement for rent increase without needing a new contract from scratch. Whether you pay them or not depends on how far you want to go. They're betting on the fact its probably not worth the effort of moving for the sake of £290 a year so you'll just give in and pay the extra. Here's some suggestions for your negotiations. Just suggestions as it'll depend upon your own circumstances and local rental market.

Starting with the renewal fee, they're probably charging the landlord a similar amount for no more than putting a few details into a standard contract and posting it to you both to sign. Easy money or what?

There's no reason that you need a new contract other than one of the parties (you the agent or the owner) wanting the security of having you under a fixed contract than just continuing the AST on a rolling basis where you can give one month's notice to end the contract. If you haven't requested a new fixed term, advise them that you're happy with the existing contract and that you don't want to pay another fee. If you're happy to, tell them you would be happy to sign a another fixed term contract but no fee.

If that doesn't work, is you deposit held within a secure Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS)? This was only a legal requiement from April 07 so if you started this agreement 12 months ago your deposit might not be held in one. If not, tell them that as you're signing a new contract you'd like details of where your deposit will be held. To do so they've got the hassle of paying out whatever your deposit is to the TDS. This might mean they let you keep your current contract.

As to the rental increase, there'll be a condition in your AST contract to say how much they can increase the rent on an annual basis. First check that the £20 a month is allowed on thsoe terms. You can tell the agent you don't want to pay the extra but at least give them a few good reasons. 1, check how much similar rental properties in your area are. If they're cheaper than your new increased rent show them and say you could move elsewhere for less. If so, you could be cheeky and ask for a rent reduction from the current level!

Also remind the agent that the rent increases amounts to £240 a year, how much would it cost the agent and landlord to a) find a new tenant? and how much would the lose from every month of rental void? - probably a lot more than the £240. Just be poltie and reasonable as you don't want to burn your bridges. How far you go depends on how much you like to gamble/play a bit of gamesmanship. Don't forget the aim is to save some money, not make yourself homeless.

Where I live there are far so many flats empty, there's no way a landlord in an average flat would risk losing a tenant unless they were stupid. If they start trying to be funny (big increases, try to evict you or something), head to your local CAB for some advice. They should be used to dealing with this type of thing.

But seeing as you've previously told one agent to frank bough and they came crawling back I think you know what you're doing

[LouisTsui]

Because if in doubt bone the tenant as £50 is cheaper than moving out :(

Is that £20 increase per month less than 5% of your rent price?

Damn right, it will cost me another 100+ admin fees if I move, plus time and hassle. It goes up from 530 to 550, so it is only 3.8%. I think is just about fair around my area, if the rent increase 10 pounds only.

[heresmo]

Damn right, it will cost me another 100+ admin fees if I move, plus time and hassle. It goes up from 530 to 550, so it is only 3.8%.

True, but that's exactly the defensive stance they'll be counting on to get you to pay up. They'll know you'll have hassle, removal costs etc. If you want to pay up, fine, if not then put the ball back in their court and leave your personal finances in your pocket (nowt to do with them).

Regards

Mo

[LouisTsui]

Are you able to communicate with the landlord directly? Some leave everything to their agents. Are you entitled to renew in your contract? If so, a cost should be noted IMO.

I have landlord's address. Maybe I can write to my landlord to check whether it is his idea to increase my rent...

I renewed the contract once last year, the rental didn't went up, and they didn't charge me admin fee.

[heresmo]

Hi, in that case, what I would do - not what you should do, just what I would:

Write a draft letter to assemble my thoughts with the cogent facts as "bullet points" (one-liners) - cut out all rambling and gripes - stick to the facts, all from the landlord's side, not mine. Then, when I'm absolutely sure I know I'm asking the right questions, I'd ring him (if poss) and hear what he has to say.

If you are asking questions first, you are not making statements, so not burning bridges. I could go on about what questions I would ask, but I'm not you and you have to handle this as you'll be happy with - you'll already have a few questions lined up methinks...

Best

Mo

[LouisTsui]

There's no reason that you need a new contract other than one of the parties (you the agent or the owner) wanting the security of having you under a fixed contract than just continuing the AST on a rolling basis where you can give one month's notice to end the contract. If you haven't requested a new fixed term, advise them that you're happy with the existing contract and that you don't want to pay another fee. If you're happy to, tell them you would be happy to sign a another fixed term contract but no fee.

In fact, it is because I am a full time international student, with no full-time income, and no references. My contract is based on paying 6 months rent in advance every 6 months. So I don't know does it make any different...

The thing is I renewed the contract once last year with another AST, but they didn't charge me any admin fees at all (rent un-change). Now they think they should, because the rent goes up......just doesn't make sense to me.

If that doesn't work, is you deposit held within a secure Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS)? This was only a legal requiement from April 07 so if you started this agreement 12 months ago your deposit might not be held in one. If not, tell them that as you're signing a new contract you'd like details of where your deposit will be held. To do so they've got the hassle of paying out whatever your deposit is to the TDS. This might mean they let you keep your current contract.

I signed my first AST contract 2 years ago, so the deposit is held by the agent initially. I did received some letters from them about the Tenancy Deposit Scheme...so I don't know if they still holding my deposit. But I guess I can have a go with them on this point.

As to the rental increase, there'll be a condition in your AST contract to say how much they can increase the rent on an annual basis. First check that the £20 a month is allowed on thsoe terms. You can tell the agent you don't want to pay the extra but at least give them a few good reasons. 1, check how much similar rental properties in your area are. If they're cheaper than your new increased rent show them and say you could move elsewhere for less. If so, you could be cheeky and ask for a rent reduction from the current level!

I checked my AST, I don't think it mentions that they can increase rent on annual basis or how much. But I think it might because my AST is 12 months, so they can do whatever they want after 12 months...

Many thanks for your and others reply, I am now more clear about my position and my tenancy agreement.

['daiking']

I can see why they would want the 6mths rent in advance (I've got British friend who had to do the same thing after coming back after a year away and not having a job) but if you've been good for it for the past 2 years you should have developed some reputation by now with regards to being a good tenant. As you say they didn't charge you last year but this year they want to. Somebody need the money. As we've all said no harm in trying to get round it.

Best of luck to you

The only place I know of for this sort of advice is: House Price Crash forum -> All about renting

this thread seems useful: Does A Rent Increase Mean A New Tenancy Agreement? - House Price Crash forum

there are probably many others too but as I no longer rent I'm not so up to date

[vrswhite]

Right, I got a letter from my estate agent, it says they (and landlord) want £20 more each month, and £50 on top for administration to renew the tenancy!!!

So guys, please tell me it is VERY common for agent to charge extra to renew contract. I mean, 50 pounds, how could they justify that!:thumbdwn:

Louis

walk down to the agents and punch him in his face!!!

This may cost more than 50quid due to lawyer fees when he takes you to court for assault but i think you will not regret it

[SJFISHER67]

Because they're c*nts.

Couldn't have said it better myself! Had my fair share of letting agent 'nugget heads'! Got charged £150 for some chunky bint to come round my last flat and tell me, "yeah it's all ok, your deposit will be returned to you without penalty!"

[cheezemonkhai]

They can charge up to 5% increased rent when a contract is negotiated.

The £50 fee if for drawing up a new fixed term contract. It might be worth seeing if instead of the £50 for another 1 year contract they will put you on a rolling contract with 3 months notice.

This would mean you only pay this fee once.

I say 3 months as this gives you time to find a new place if they pull the rug from under you at a bad time of year.