Following on from a thread elsewhere...

Personally I can't stand the things and coupled with the now extremely dubious legal position how many people would actually fit an after market HID kit.

Vote for the car you would fit it to and Yes/No/Cause pain

Leave your reasoning below.

i would and am infact intending on buying one when my car is back on the road as i would like better lighting.

whats your reasoning for hating them? if a car has properly aligned headlights with a suitable beam pattern then whats your problem?

My problem lies in that most the cars they are fitted to were never designed for them

Therefore the reflectors don't give a proper beam pattern. The biggest offenders, IMHO, being the cars like the fabia MK I etc that don't have a piece of plastic to block light coming forward from the bulb that the owners then fit with bulbs without blockers.

I had them fitted to a Mk I Octy (not projector headlights) and the car passed an MOT without any problems, I think it does depend on the headlight design though.

We've discussed this before, but basically the problem is with the amount of glare that the headlamps give out with HID conversions.

Anything that is in front of the reflector & is chromed will cause glare.

I have ordered a H7 HID kit for the Leon.

The good thing about the Leon's headlamps is that only the reflector is chromed. Everything else around the reflector is black plastic.

If the headlamps were completely chromed, I would just fit a pair of H7 bulbs like the Philips Xtremes or Osram NightBreakers.

I had these on my Golf IV... which had PROJECTOR headlights, and after getting them correctly alighned at work after fitting (I work at VW Main dealer with MOT testing centre) they were absolutly superb, couldnt fault them at all, much much safer as i could see so much more.

However I have since sold the Golf and replaced it with a run about Ibiza Sport with REFLECTOR headlights and i have to say i found them extremly dangerous, lots of 'deadspots' and constant flashing from other motorists. I have since removed them and fitted uprated Halogen bulbs (Osram Night Breakers) and find them much safer as I'm getting a better distance from them.

Had mine fitted for ages. Been behind police, beam pattern is a dream, some glare but it kinda shouts get outta my way.

Visability is miles better.

Do not get any bulbs over 6k thought. Way tooo blue

i think it does depend on headlight design, but my HID kit works well enough. ive even been in front of my car while the SWMBO was driving mine to see what it was like. i was satisifed that it wasnt any worse than proper HIDs.

but then everything that isnt a reflector has been painted black in my lights anyway, so maybe that helps

Mark, why do you actually care this much? You argue your ar5e off in a thread created for a potential group buy, can't you just leave it alone and accept it isn't something you are interested but someone else might be.

I have 130w main beam bulbs, my car has passed 2 MOTs with them now and I am sure it would have no problem passing if or when I change to xenons.

Yeah ok, maybe the odd retro fit xenon might be a bit bright - better that than all the people who drive around with one head light and one side light. Seriously, get over it.

The main reason I don't like them is the stupid colour most people go for, what is the point of blue lighting? It's as much good as a waterproof tea bag.

I will put my hands up and admit I spent my hard earnt on a set for my Mk1 Octy and they were taken out within 48 hours as they were abysmal. Most of the light went up to the trees and my fog lights offered better light output onto the road.

Headlight reflectors are designed to accurately reflect the light from a coiled filament, not a high intensity electric arc.

If they are <6000k and fitted to projector style lamps no one would tell the difference but when Barry fits a set of 10,000K's to a 1991 Ford 'Escrot' with one light pointing up to the trees he is indeed spoiling it for everyone else

Mark, why do you actually care this much? You argue your ar5e off in a thread created for a potential group buy, can't you just leave it alone and accept it isn't something you are interested but someone else might be.

I have 130w main beam bulbs, my car has passed 2 MOTs with them now and I am sure it would have no problem passing if or when I change to xenons.

Yeah ok, maybe the odd retro fit xenon might be a bit bright - better that than all the people who drive around with one head light and one side light. Seriously, get over it.

Why don't you f**k off and stop having a go at everything I post!:thumbdwn:

I started this thread precisely because the OP on the group buy thread wanted to keep it on topic and not discuss the points on there.

That plus 130W mains are not going to blind anyone as they are not usually on when you have oncoming traffic. Unlike Xenon Dipped beam.

Also if you speak to Baker21 or look at the Dept for Transport stance on this you will find it is at best of dubious legality.

Therefore I don't see why me pointing out the dubious legality should be any issue. After all surely it is better that people know then they can make their own minds up and be aware of the facts.

Perhaps you prefer to bury your head in the sand, but I like to be aware of issues before spending my hard earned. I don't see why I can't have my opinion and ask others theirs.

Personally I'm just waiting for an insurance claim where the other driver claims they were blinded by the light and the insurance refuses to pay out due to an aftermarket HID kit.

After all, everybody knows insurance companies love an excuse not to pay out if they can avoid it. I wouldn't give them that reason.

EDIT: Out of interest, why when I made this a public poll and it started out as one has it now been made private by somebody without so much as sending me a PM to ask or explain why?

Easy Tiger! If you click on the number of voters in each category, you get the voter names

Non OE HIDs - All down to vanity and no consideration to other road users, I don't see the need to upgrade my headlights.

Tiger eased.

Never used to require that did it?

Also if you speak to Baker21 or look at the Dept for Transport stance on this you will find it is at best of dubious legality.

Firstly for those of you that don't know, I design Headlamps for a living so I am constantly working to strict regulations, laws and standards so I know pretty much everything associated with making a Headlamp Legal for the ECE and SAE market, I also see many tests and simulations of lamps with different light sources and also competitor products test results.....so this thread is an interesting read.....

Secondly I should point out that while I work to these rules, I have fitted OEM Xenon's to my Superb without having fitted Headlamp Levelling or Wash.....

I have not voted on this as I am split between work and everyday life but I would like to throw in a few things to think about;

1) Retro-fitting covers a broad area, the question is are you talking about a propoer OEM Retro-fit or chucking a Xenon Bulb inside a Halogen Headlamp? I think this thread is aimed at the later in which case I don't agree....

2) As soon a you modify a Halogen Headlamp to house a Xenon light source then the lamp is no longer legal, not type approved with the original intended light source and should technically not pass an MOT but in reality how many MOT stations check this?

3) It is very hard to tell whether someone has OEM Xenon or retro-fit Xenon on the road as they all glare at some stage however if everyone had Xenon on the road then your eyes would adjust to this and it wouldn't be a problem as it would be the norm but because we see Halogen on the road with Xenon, they always seem to be glaring....

4) While many people that Retro-Fit Xenon to their Halogen Headlamps are happy with the results on the road in the long term there will be problems within side the lamp, the heat is immense as the lamp was not designed to take the Xenon light, source deformation of the reflector and housing will appear over time, there is also a high chance that the alluminsation will also flake off the reflector over time....

I have seen many things and read many things with regards to this topic and I have really just taken a back seat as I believe that people will always do what they want if they can get away with it and this is the same as me 'stretching' my tyres onto my wheels, it shouldn't be done but I have.

I sympathise with both arguments so it depends how you want to look at it and the simple fact is that if you look at it in 'black and white', it's illegal.

I apologise for the lengthy response and hope it all makes sense......

I think those are fair comments & you can't stop people doing what they want.

I believe that MOT test guidelines will become more tighter on HID conversions, if the government see it as a big problem.

This won't stop people switching over to halogen bulbs just for MOT test purposes.

I think there will be a clampdown of some description in the near future as the number of people fitting after market kits has exploded in the past 18 months and that includes motorbikes, vans and trucks.

The bottom line is the police have better things to do than pull people over for incorrect headlights, this is evident when you see the number of ******* driving around with blown bulbs, incorrectly aligned beams and 12,000K 'purple' HID kits.

Well just to throw my tuppence into the mix.

I intend to buy a 5100K Set for my vRS mainly because the light output of the halogen unit is poor compared to Xenons.

My last car had Xenons on and the only reason i didnt get them on the Octy is because i didnt see the point in paying nigh on £500 for something i can get for £250 (yes i know you dont get self-levelling or headlight washers). As the Octy has projector headlamps and is the same cluster wether xenon or not (its just what goes into the headlamp housing that is different afaik no doubt someone will correct me if wrong) there should be no problem. My mate has a set fitted to his and he has had no problems in passing SVA tests both for Germany & UK.

I agree that if they are fitted incorrectly or cause too much glare then that is wrong. Also bulbs over 6000K should be illegal. But as long as they are aligned properly, Have a bulb between 4300K and 6000k and checked then i dont see the problem.

got mine fitted now. beam patterns superb and its like driving in the day now. big thumbs up

strange you talk about higher heat output. i cant feel much of a difference from my old high performance bulbs to the heat from the HIDS ive got.

plus a friend of mine melted his fog lights with high output halogen bulbs. but has been running hid bulbs in his new fogs (of the same design) for much longer and hasnt melted them yet

strange you talk about higher heat output. i cant feel much of a difference from my old high performance bulbs to the heat from the HIDS ive got.

plus a friend of mine melted his fog lights with high output halogen bulbs. but has been running hid bulbs in his new fogs (of the same design) for much longer and hasnt melted them yet

More than likely that these 'High Output' Halogen bulbs run at a higher voltage, which directly leads me to my comparison between Xenon which if run correctly requires a start up voltage of 24,000volts as provided by the ballast......

Surely a set of halogen bulbs will run at 12v in the car as that is the only supply they have (no transformer for halogens).

That would mean to get more light you need to increase the wattage and the only way to do that is to increase the current draw.

More current draw = more heat = meltage.

Surely a set of halogen bulbs will run at 12v in the car as that is the only supply they have (no transformer for halogens).

That would mean to get more light you need to increase the wattage and the only way to do that is to increase the current draw.

More current draw = more heat = meltage.

Your quite correct that a higher wattage will also had to increased heat within the lamp.....

As mentioned by cheezemonkhai, the voltage stays the same regardless of the wattage.

The current draw to power the high wattage increases.

High wattage bulbs in fog lights is a bad idea anyway. The lamps are significantly smaller than headlamps & the heat build in the confined space will cause the lamp to melt.

HID ballasts ignite the Xenon bulb at high voltage for a second or so when initally switching them on. Then they regulate the voltage to normal output (12-14V).

The bulb themselves burner hotter due to the Xenon arc.

Ok i posted this in the other thread but i'll add it here too as part of the debate.......

VW Driver Magazine - Issue 41 / October 2003.....

Increasingly Volkswagens are being offered with the option of gas discharge lighting. Instead of relying on a glowing filament as the light source, these units use an initial high voltage (23,000V) to create an electrical discharge in a glass envelope filled with xenon gas.

Rather like the operation of a fluorescent strip light, an arc of ionised xenon gas heats the enclosed metallic salts to vaporisation point, at which point full light output is produced. It takes around four seconds to initiate the ignition process and, once the discharge has reached full intensity, the igniter automatically shuts off. The inverter then maintains the correct operating maintenance voltage, drawing only 35 watts of power while producing three times the light output of a traditional 55/60W halogen bulb.

This also results in a much more intense white light, much closer in colour temperature to daylight. A 35W D1 gas-discharge lamp emits light with a high colour temperature (typically 4500k) and, similar to sunlight, relatively large components of green and blue light. So superior is the light output that it is a statutory requirement that gas discharge units must be used in conjunction with automatic levelling, to prevent the risk of dazzling oncoming traffic, and a headlamp washer system.

I also think that as more factory xenon fitted cars are made people will get used to how bright they are..... The same was said about halogen bulbs when they were first used in cars.

Cheers

Dave.

We fitted a set to the wifes last car and it flew through the MOT no problem twice. We never had people flash us and even took it over to europe and had no issues over there either.

I'm not sure if were going to fit a set on her vRS as we want to spend the money on other mods but we might get round to it.

Here's some pictures of her last car with the HID's on:

Chris