Ok, it’s a bit of a strange thread but someone requested a comparison in another thread so I’ve obliged but moved it into it’s own thread so as not to drag the other one off topic.

Comparison is of my standard E46 BMW 330d Sport manual 204bhp (54plate) and my wifes standard Fabia vRS (a 55plate so has the facelift revisions like new lights etc, but not the stuttery Euro IV engine).

There’s no point doing a straight comparison (i.e BMW interior vs vRS interior etc) as they are very different cars aimed at different markets- we bought our Fabia brand new for about £12k, the BMW was £36k brand new! (I bought it at 3 years old for less than half that).

I guess the place most people would want me to start is straight line pace, as this is the basis of the “I raced a 330d off the lights” type posts.

Let me start by saying that as you would expect the 330d is faster. However, it’s not that much faster and until you get used to the way the 330d delivers it’s power, in a lot of cases the the Fabia actually feels faster. I was used to my Golf GT TDI 150 before I bought the BMW and that felt very similar in pace to the Fabia. I was actually mildly disappointed with the BMW when I first got it as it didn't really feel any quicker than the Fabia or Golf.

I eventually got around to doing a few non-scientific tests to establish which was quicker. For example near me there is a 40mph limit which goes into a 60. I would approach the NSL sign at 40mph in fourth and when I reached it floor the accelerator. I would then check my speed at the next lamppost (maybe 50 yards away?).

The vRS was doing approx 55mph by this point. The 330d was doing just over 60mph.

Everytime I did it the vRS felt like it was quicker but it wasn't. I'll try and describe the feelings as best I can.

In the vRS there would be a momentary pause, then the turbo would kick in like the drug squad breaking in your front door at 5.30 in the morning. You'd surge forward and then the kick would die off almost as quickly as it came. Kinda feels like you've been lifted up on this massive wave which takes you by surprise, hurtles you towards the beach and then dumps you down on the shore.

In the BMW theres the same (albeit shorter) momentary pause as the turbo spools up, then there's just this linear shove, kinda like how it feels when you're holding onto a dolphins fin and it's pulling you along. Just a relentless pull, getting stronger and while the Fabia dumps you on the shore, this sends you shooting right up the beach.

I haven't tried it but I suspect if I tried the same test in third gear in both cars, the Fabia wouldn't be all that much quicker as I'd run out of puff and have to change to fourth but the BMW would probably be a bit more responsive.

I think a lot of the difference comes down to responsivity, and throttle response in particular. The BMW has a very linear throttle response and a long pedal travel, while the vRS seems to deliver most of it's action in the first inch or so of throttle travel and doesn't really reward you for mashing the pedal into the carpet.

I actually prefer the Fabias throttle most of the time as it's much more effortless, and I reckon it is this feature that makes it feel a lot faster than it perhaps is.

The BMW on the otherhand, despite being a large capacity diesel with 300lb ft of torque feels like it needs to be worked more, in fact it's more like a petrol. My wife commented the other day that since I got the BMW I seem to drive the Fabia in a lower gear than is necessary, something which I hadn't noticed but it's true. The 330d needs a lower gear to match the instant responsivity that I've been used to. Maybe its the way it's geared, maybe it's the engine, maybe it's the throttle, more likely it's a combination of the three, but no doubt, the 330d needs to be driven differently to VAG diesels for it to feel like it has the performance advantage the figures suggest it does.

The noise is one area where there is no doubt about which is best. The 330d sounds simply glorious. :bowdown1::drool:Ok, it's not as good as a BMW 6 cylinder petrol but it would be doing it an injustice to say it sounds good for a diesel. It sounds good full stop. Better than my old VX220 with full Miltek exhaust even. I'm not even going to mention the noise the Fabia makes;)

I forgot how a nice induction sound enhances the enjoyment of a spirited drive

Handling is something which I can't really form a definitive opinion on yet as I've never had a warm, dry road to push the BMW on (only had it since November).

However what I can say is that it does steer much more clearly than the Fabia (although perhaps too clearly as you get a fair bit of tramlining from the front) and it puts the power down a bit more cleanly without the slightly scrabbly feeling you can sometimes get with the Fabia.

I also now understand what roadtesters mean when they say a car has a "tail led stance". You can feel the car pivot around the middle as you load the tyres and it feels like it is almost steering with all four wheels. It feels great (and a bit scary) at the same time, but as I say, I haven't had a dry road to play properly yet.

There's not much difference in ride quality between the BMW with sports suspension and 18" wheels and the Fabia on it standard 16s, although the far superior sound deadening of the BMW makes it a far more cossetting place to ride.

I think those criteria are the only fair ones to compare the cars in to be honest, given the difference in list price.

To sum up, the BMW is a better car in almost every way I can think of. But when I use the wifes Fabia I don't feel that I'm slumming it, or driving the poor relation.

The Fabia is noiser and cheaper feeling, but it can deliver it's own fun on a back road and has as much useable pace as the BMW. A remapped one would frighten 330d drivers:D

All in all I feel very lucky to be in the position where I have two such fantastic cars in the garage :P

I've just realised how long this post is- hope I didn't put anyone to sleep!

An interesting post indeed.

I have always liked the 330D :drool:

A simple map and FMIC will get you 300bhp and more torque than an M3

Like you say they also sound sweet!!!

Some photos of the BMW.

Cant see photobucket at work so I've just copied the links from a post I made on another forum. Hope they work.

Very good review mate. I think you'v been honest and fair.

I dont think the BMW's can be compared to much to skoda in way of luxurys, i would definatley expect a nicer sounding engine, much better interior (not hard to do!) and some better toys and gadgets for 3X the price.

I think when comparing a standard furby vrs and the standard 330d for speed and handling there would be no contest as the bmw would beat it by miles i would think. As for a remapped furby with a better suspension set up, i think the furby would be the more fun of the two cars and possibly the fastest (depending on who was driving!) Iv had a few run ins my self and they dont like it up em!

Your a lucky man having such a great collection of cars!

Id like the 123d with a remap one day

Great review. :thumbup:

Your comments about the power delivery and perceived speed are interesting, because I felt similar when I test drove the new Octy 170pd. (I have a furby). It didn't "feel" that much quicker, but when I checked the spedo, i was quicker!

Anyway, as I said, nice review.

Good review and nice car. Oddly enough, i actually like the clatter & whistle of the PD130, but I'll bet the BMW six sounds a lot more refined...

Fantastic review mate. Thanks for taking the time to write it too. Much appreciated!

very nice review, cheers

Interesting review I find that my 123D has a similar feel in as much as it doesn’t feel as quick off the line as my old Octy DSG TDi. Up to about 50 the Octy felt quicker. The 123 is about the same weight as the 3 series and has almost identical power and torque figures (albeit from only a 2.0 engine). But it’s the linear acceleration that really does remove the sensation of acceleration, very strange, like being attached to a big soft bungee rope. The 2 turbo thing is surely the bit to thank for this. This is the thread I started for a 123D hatch vs an Octy 140TDi DSG comparison. Bit like yours in reverse Stevoraith I guess.

Seems like a lot of people feel the same regarding the percieved feeling of speed in VAG TDI's compared to other cars which are actually a bit faster.

I guess a lot of VAG TDI drivers (and I include myself in this) are under the impression that they are a lot quicker than they are purely down to the way they deliver the power.

Cjb, The turbo whistle of the PD lumps isn't without its charm but it's no 6 cylinder!

Lady Elanore, how are you finding the MPG on your 123d now? Also are you using OBC values or calculated as I find my OBC can be a good few MPG out.

My next car will be a 3series touring I think (should be better for when the kids come along- saloons are rubbish- the seats don't even fold!) and although the heart says new 230bhp 330d, the brain is saying the rumoured 323d could be a good bet.

I would miss the 6 cylinder noise but if the performance is similar and the economy is a lot better then the head might rule.

Nice comparison. Have you driven it in snow or ice yet? A couple of years back it snowed the week after a colleague had got his new 318SE company car, I asked him how it was and received a string of expletives for my trouble!

Lady Elanore, how are you finding the MPG on your 123d now? Also are you using OBC values or calculated as I find my OBC can be a good few MPG out.

My next car will be a 3series touring I think (should be better for when the kids come along- saloons are rubbish- the seats don't even fold!) and although the heart says new 230bhp 330d, the brain is saying the rumoured 323d could be a good bet.

I would miss the 6 cylinder noise but if the performance is similar and the economy is a lot better then the head might rule.

Economy hasn’t really changed much, but I only have a few thousand miles on the clock so far. The 323d is going to happen and as it will weigh about the same as the 123D I guess performance will be similar, but with the benefit of better ride and probably better motorway fuel consumption.

Never had to dirve it in snow yet and I'm not looking forward to it! 255 section rear tyres will just sit on top of the snow and get no traction!

Ice is ok thou, you've just got to be gentle and careful. The stability control is excellent too, giving just a little bit of slide to let you know whats happening before pulling you back into shape.

Got it a bit sideways on a roundabout last night while unintentionally being a **** though!

I have driven on snow this year and my rears are only 225s……………………..bl00dy useless is being kind. The car is unusable after the first snowflake hits the ground till they have all melted. Atrocious absolutely atrocious.:(

I have driven on snow this year and my rears are only 225s……………………..bl00dy useless is being kind. The car is unusable after the first snowflake hits the ground till they have all melted. Atrocious absolutely atrocious.:(

Perhaps it's just that you are a crap driver eh?

Perhaps it's just that you are a crap driver eh?

You are either very brave or very drunk. Luckily for you I can’t do 3 point turns or I would drive over there and sort you out!:P

Interesting read, thanks

Steve