Etka 7???

My vRS has Armed Guards:P:P

its the VAG parts system

ahhh ok

I guess the one I remember must either have been tweaked or I was just being brain dead.

Either way I think ETKA answers it.

I'm still with the difference this has made though

Have you declared this to your insurance? If so what price difference did it make?

Yes i checked out and declared before I had it done as I was expecting a big bump up, so I could factor this into costs.

The total cost from my insurance company was £0

They just put a new document in the post with Brake Modifications in it.

Obviously every insurance company will vary in what they will charge or even cover.

As some of you may know I've been toying with the idea of upgrading the brakes on my Octy for a while now as I just didn't feel they inspired confidence that they were going to stop you in time.

So after a few months of playing around ordering various bit and waiting I've now gone and done it.

So what parts were used:

The car in question is a PD140 which meant I could reuse the callipers as these are the same as the VRS.

- 312mm carrier callipers (Available from VAG Parts, who give a forum discount of 10%)

- 312mm OEM discs (I got a good price at the dealer but GSF do brembo ones for £60ish after the forum discount)

- EBC Redstuff Ceramic V3 brake pads - Part No DP31517C (Available from Larkspeed, who were very helpful, then a bit of a pain, then again helpful )

So so far it's a big for the EBC redstuff and another for the 312mm setup too.

I'm slightly confused :confused:

How come the callipers and pads are the same for the 288 mm discs and the 312 mm discs? I would have expected the larger discs to make use of larger pads as there is a greater area for them to act upon; or isn't there?

I ask as I'm due to get my car serviced next week, fancy upgrading the pads (not too expensive and simple top do) and want to make sure I buy the correct ones.

The callipers are ATE and exactly the same part number on the 288mm set up as the 312mm set up. The only difference is a different revision number to get them in green/red as opposed to plain silver.

The pads are exactly the same as they are in the same callipers.

For the 312mm discs the pad still covers the entire disc surface and comparing the discs it looks like they 312mm discs braking surface starts 24mm further out.

The increased braking comes from the extra moments (angular force) caused by pulling on the disc from 24mm further out.

I think I put the redstuff part number on the first post. Green and yellow are also available but I was hard pushed to find anyone else doing them

The front pads for a MK V GTI or 307 CC 180bhp are also the same part as the Octy II with 312mm brakes.

I'm also fairly confident that performance pads for the MK I octy with 312mm are the same part as for the MK II octy with the 312mm setups. It's worth checking and perhaps if somebody has some old used MK I pads they might volunteer them for a MK II comparison.

I can post pics up of my old MK II OEM pads if you want.

The callipers are ATE and exactly the same part number on the 288mm set up as the 312mm set up. The only difference is a different revision number to get them in green/red as opposed to plain silver.

The pads are exactly the same as they are in the same callipers.

Makes sense.

For the 312mm discs the pad still covers the entire disc surface and comparing the discs it looks like they 312mm discs braking surface starts 24mm further out.

The increased braking comes from the extra moments (angular force) caused by pulling on the disc from 24mm further out.

Understood; I did A-Level Physics

I think I put the redstuff part number on the first post.

You did.

Green and yellow are also available but I was hard pushed to find anyone else doing them

The front pads for a MK V GTI or 307 CC 180bhp are also the same part as the Octy II with 312mm brakes.

Logical.

Thanks for the swift response; Top notch.

I confirmed with my dealer this morning that he is happy to fit EBC pads during the service next week so I think I'll go shopping for a set of RedStuff (seem to be the optimum pad for a vRS) - certainly the blurb on EBCs website about performance etc is pretty convincing.

The thing I've found with the OEM pads is that they are very responsive on initial bite but appear to loose efficiency & feel less strong on a long application; maybe just my perception but having used Tarox and Ferodo pads in the past you kind of get used to them and the stronger response.

Thanks again.

As my comment regarding the MK I/MK II VRS pads, if they are the same (dealer can confirm) you could put in DS2500 if you're feeling flush.

The reds have lots of initial bite, lots of hot bite and don't fade in the wet like the OEM pads.

I like them, but from other people on the forum they seem to be a Marmite pad. I'm very happy with them though

Further update after another few hundred miles.

The things are now definitely bedded in properly and yes the very slight squeal at very low speed stops where you only just touch the brakes is still there in the dry. It isn't in the wet, so i might try a bit of copper slip.

The stopping power is great and I'm very pleased. There seems to be no obvious brake fade, but I wouldn't expect that on the road anyway.

Overall a big thumbs up as I now feel much more confident in the car when stopping and it really does seem to pull up much much quicker than the old set up even with less peddle.

I had SWMBO in the car the other day and a light went red quite quickly, so I pushed on the brakes with the force I would have normally used. This resulted in me pulling up a good 3 or 4 meters before the line and then getting told there was no need to show off when I then pulled forward to the line.

I'm still very pleased with this upgrade and will update the thread after a few thousand miles.

I confirmed with my dealer this morning that he is happy to fit EBC pads during the service next week so I think I'll go shopping for a set of RedStuff (seem to be the optimum pad for a vRS) - certainly the blurb on EBCs website about performance etc is pretty convincing.

The thing I've found with the OEM pads is that they are very responsive on initial bite but appear to loose efficiency & feel less strong on a long application; maybe just my perception but having used Tarox and Ferodo pads in the past you kind of get used to them and the stronger response.

Thanks again.

Last week I was on the verge of buying EBC redstuffs but kept thinking back to the Ferodo DS2500s I had used on two previous cars and how good they were; decided to investigate further.

Finished up talking to Tim @ Circuit Supplies UK Ltd 01525 385888 who is the UK importer for Ferodo Racing pads. After some discussion we reasoned that, as there was commonality between the Golf V and Octavia II, Ferodo Racing's DS2500 Part No; FCP1641H ought to fit the 288/312mm discs on the Octy. RRP with VAT and P&P is £124.48 (the DS2500s have always been more expensive than EBC pads).

I decided to stick with the Ferodos (rather than switch to EBCs) and a set arrived within 48 hours; top notch service.

My dealer fitted them today, I was slightly nervous as to whether they were the correct size/shape but they are. I collect my car tomorrow, so clearly too early to report on stopping power.

One point I ought to mention is that the DS2500s are not ECE R90 approved (whereas 'most' of EBC's redstuff are) if that concerns you; it doesn't me as the most important fatcor is that I know DS2500s will be significantly better than OE pads.

..... After some discussion we reasoned that, as there was commonality between the Golf V and Octavia II, Ferodo Racing's DS2500 Part No; FCP1641H ought to fit the 288/312mm discs on the Octy. RRP with VAT and P&P is £124.48 (the DS2500s have always been more expensive than EBC pads).

Sorry could have told you the Golf V and Octy II have the same front callipers and saved you some effort hunting. I believe they are also the same pads as the MK I octy but do need to confirm this when i have some time.

I decided to stick with the Ferodos (rather than switch to EBCs) and a set arrived within 48 hours; top notch service.

My dealer fitted them today, I was slightly nervous as to whether they were the correct size/shape but they are. I collect my car tomorrow, so clearly too early to report on stopping power.

One point I ought to mention is that the DS2500s are not ECE R90 approved (whereas 'most' of EBC's redstuff are) if that concerns you; it doesn't me as the most important fatcor is that I know DS2500s will be significantly better than OE pads.

Hope you enjoy them, I'm extremely pleased with the redstuff ceramics.

At half the price of the Ferodo and me not doing huge amounts of track time I can't see me needing the DS2500. I also have to say that I'm not sure if the DS2500 would offer much more stopping power, but obviously can't say as I've not driven both.

The EBC have been stunning in the wet and cold weather we have had recently, so I can confirm there are no heating up/lack of bite issues with them in the current compound (ceramic V3)

Another point worth mentioning is that R90 keeps your warranty on other parts, if fitted by a VAT registered garage. Perhaps more importantly R90 keeps your insurance company happier. Mine allowed the whole upgrade with zero increase.

If I had used non R90 parts to do it then they did say they would want full details before they would confirm cover and any charges. Just worth bearing in mind if your main aim is improved stopping power for the road.

I'll be interested to see how the DS2500 stop in the cold and wet at the moment as I hear they need to get a bit of heat into them before they are up to maximum effect. I have also heard marginally less grip than OEM cold but much more warm.

My only problem with this brake upgrade is that I recently played musical tyres and put the bridgestones back on the front to try and last me out a bit longer. These tyres are truly cack compared to the Falken 452 I had on there. :(

EDIT: Just looked at ferodos DS2500 datasheet and the 0.5 friction co-efficient at all temperatures and lower dust is exactly the same as that for the EBC reds.

Federal-Mogul - Ferodo DS2500 Brake Pads

That low dust comment, which the 2500 never were, makes me wonder if it is a new compound.

I'm going to be very very interested to see how these two fare against each other

Sorry could have told you the Golf V and Octy II have the same front callipers and saved you some effort hunting. I believe they are also the same pads as the MK I octy but do need to confirm this when i have some time.

No apology needed; I'm sure you did mention it and that's how I was able to discuss it with Circuit Supplies, although Tim knew already.

Hope you enjoy them, I'm extremely pleased with the redstuff ceramics.

At half the price of the Ferodo and me not doing huge amounts of track time I can't see me needing the DS2500. I also have to say that I'm not sure if the DS2500 would offer much more stopping power, but obviously can't say as I've not driven both.

I don't do track time at all; just like good brakes. Either pad would probably suffice but having previously used the DS2500s I opted to stick with them.

I'll be interested to see how the DS2500 stop in the cold and wet at the moment as I hear they need to get a bit of heat into them before they are up to maximum effect. I have also heard marginally less grip than OEM cold but much more warm.

From past experience your about right; but I find OEM pads are too sharp on initial bite and then require more pressure on longer stops.

I'm going to be very very interested to see how these two fare against each other

I think it will be an interesting comparison.

I think the too sharp is the brakes being over servo assisted, but agree that when getting hot the OEM pads really seem to require a lot more pressure.

So.... How are they so far?

So.... How are they so far?

Only picked up the car last night; taking it easy and bedding them in as per instructions. These are 20-30 applications of 50% pressure of 3-4 seconds each (short firm applications). No squealing yet.

Probably won't get to use them in earnest until next week.

Good work on this Mark, I am going to head down the same route I think, but will maybe look at some crossdrilled disks as I am a car tart

Good work on this Mark, I am going to head down the same route I think, but will maybe look at some crossdrilled disks as I am a car tart

The EBC turbo groove discs come highly recommended and are dimpled rather than fully cross-drilled. Just trying to justify a set for the Panda

Chris

The EBC turbo groove discs come highly recommended and are dimpled rather than fully cross-drilled. Just trying to justify a set for the Panda

Chris

JKM are doing their own exclusive grooved discs as a possibility, see here;- JKM Performance Brake Disks - SKODA

or will you be looking at Brembo or APs?

JKM are doing their own exclusive grooved discs as a possibility, see here;- JKM Performance Brake Disks - SKODA

Do you know who actually manufacturers them as the site just says "by the UK's leading brake disc manufacturer" and I've no idea who that is!

Chris

Do you know who actually manufacturers them as the site just says "by the UK's leading brake disc manufacturer" and I've no idea who that is!

Chris

Blind Rudolph!

EBC? Mintex? AP?

JKM are doing their own exclusive grooved discs as a possibility, see here;- JKM Performance Brake Disks - SKODA

Do you know who actually manufacturers them as the site just says "by the UK's leading brake disc manufacturer" and I've no idea who that is!

Chris

You may see some very similar looking items if you have a look here:

National Autoparts Brake Disc and Drum Manufacturers and Remanufacturers

specifically:

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/catafiles/brake/nbd.pdf

part numbers:

- NBD1353 (Listed for Mk III Jetta 312mm and MK IV golf GTI 312mm)

- NBD 1292 (Listed for MK III Jetta 288mm and MK IV golf 288mm)

They are the normal parts.

For performance add a P in place of the N and add G for grooves

Along with this which sounds familiar.

PBD - Performance Brake Discs National, the UK's leading manufacturer of quality brake discs have specifically developed this range of brake discs for the high performance fast road user. Using the latest CNC machining technology and SPC techniques the production facility is fully ISO 9001 accredited ensuring 100% total quality for every component. Manufactured from close grained perlitic grey cast iron conforming to the quality requirements of BS 1452 (DIN1619), each component is machined to exacting dimensional tolerances for geometric flatness and parallelism.

Also sold for other makes (not VW) here:

RACE SPORT EQUIP Brake Disc

The above site also says:

Attention - CAR CLUB' date=' TUNING SHOP & ENTREPRENEURS

we are able to custom made brake disc according to your required design (see above) as long as

you are able to commit a minimum of 5 pairs of each car model.

[/quote']

Their prices appear to be in USD, but if 5+ people wanted to get together for a group buy, you could probably get them made at a good price Maybe even direct from national for a reasonable quantity.

The standards are:

- ISO 9002 boils down to a we write down our process.

IIRC You can get away with saying "if we get it wrong we do nothing" right up to detailing a returns process in which you bend over backwards for the customer.

ISO 9002 Translated into Plain English

- BS 1452 is explained here: Grey Iron

I believe DIN is the German equivalent, but not 100% sure on that.

Good work on this Mark, I am going to head down the same route I think, but will maybe look at some crossdrilled disks as I am a car tart

In terms of my upgrade. I really rate the EBC reds and at half the price of the DS2500 with pretty much identical specs I'd say give them a punt. If you are happier paying more to use the more "proven" DS2500, then I doubt you would be disappointed either.

From extensive talks with a bloke who races cars and drives his atom and swift GTI-16v `shopping list edition`; the suggestion was not to bother with grooves for the road as you will only wear the pads out quicker. That plus the pads have a full depth line down the middle which l assume let any slight vapour out.

Either way, I think you'd be pretty damn happy with a 312mm set up and either of the pads with OEM or grooved/drilled discs.

I know I am

EDIT:

Updated links:

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/assets/content/documents/online_brake_disc_catalogue_jul2011.pdf

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/brake_products/brake_product_range.aspx

Edited 10 January, 201214 yr by cheezemonkhai

You may see some very similar looking items if you have a look here:

National Autoparts Brake Disc and Drum Manufacturers and Remanufacturers

specifically:

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/catafiles/brake/nbd.pdf

part numbers:

- NBD1353 (Listed for Mk III Jetta 312mm and MK IV golf GTI 312mm)

- NBD 1292 (Listed for MK III Jetta 288mm and MK IV golf 288mm)

They are the normal parts.

For performance add a P in place of the N and add G for grooves

In terms of my upgrade. I really rate the EBC reds and at half the price of the DS2500 with pretty much identical specs I'd say give them a punt. If you are happier paying more to use the more "proven" DS2500, then I doubt you would be disappointed either.

From extensive talks with a bloke who races cars and drives his atom and swift GTI-16v `shopping list edition`; the suggestion was not to bother with grooves for the road as you will only wear the pads out quicker. That plus the pads have a full depth line down the middle which l assume let any slight vapour out.

Either way, I think you'd be pretty damn happy with a 312mm set up and either of the pads with OEM or grooved/drilled discs.

I know I am

Wow; what a post; thanks. :thumbup: A complete mine of information! :eek:

The list http://www.national-auto.co.uk/catafiles/brake/nbd.pdf has a full listing for Fabia, Octavia I & II etc etc. also would answer any debated one "what size brake discs do I have?" It shows the NBD1353 is listed for Octavia vRS as front with NBD 1354 for rear.

As to what's next; well my DS2500s are responding well. Would I get grooved discs? Probably only when I need my OEM ones replacing.

Looks like we have found two sets of good pads for the front of the Octy 2 with the ATE 288mm/312mm set up.

- EBC redstuff at about £70 a set delivered.

- Ferodo DS2500 at about £130 a set delivered.

So far so good