Cold Start problems with a PD TDI 170

[bubblec]

Hi,

I've been an owner of a Octavia VRS PD TDI now for 3 weeks and loving it, but this latest spell of cold weather has highlighted an issue and I wondered if anyone had any ideas.

Basically from cold, I'm having to turn the car over twice to get it to fire. First time it sort of "half fires" but then nothing, but the second time it will fire and catch, but is really lumpy until it's turned over for a few seconds.

Not being a VRS owner very long I wasn't sure if there was a well know issue with these engines in the cold.

Any ideas?

Edited 31 January, 2011 by bubblec

[Wardy]

With that sort of issue, I'd look at the glow plugs or the battery.

Have you VCDS to run a scan, or someone nearby? Any issue relating to that sort of starting issue should be flagged up, within the Engine module.

Steve

[BratVRS]

Hi

i,ve owned a VRS for just over a month. and also had cold start issues. as you have. been back to SKODA. and they say haven,t found any problems. so just thought it was me [ my first diesel ]. so bought some REDEX fuel additive. says cleans injectors and helps cold starts. it has been better. not cut out after letting go of the key. however it still feels and sounds weak. but as the cold has really set in now. and i,m gonna leave it 2-3days on the drive. if it fails or struggles to start. it will be going back to skoda for 2nd and last time. it,s up to them. fix the problem or hand back my money. whats really funny is i,ve also own a renault clio 200 cup and if you,d believe all the reliability tests you,d stay away from a renault. but it,s been the most reliable car i,ve owned.lol which includes VW,HYUNDAI,CITREON,HONDA.FORD,SKODA.

[Phil284]

Don't skoda start telling you off if you put additives in with the fuel?! Or is them being fussy?

[Jane_i10]

iv got the same problem, anything below 6-7 degrees it will need a second turn of the key to get it fire and even then it does not feel sure of itself

i rung skoda and as mentioned before they said glowplugs or battery, i have not got round to checking either but does anyone have a rough idea of how long the glow plugs last? or when they start to get abit weak as there is not renewal time on them

[JonnyS]

I thought this was just the glow plugs needing time to warm? Standard issue for a diesel? If I turn the ignition round to the first click and wait for the lights to go out (including the glowplug light) it starts fine?

[Jane_i10]

after turning the key i wait untill all appropriate lights go out then crank but still struggles, i ad the same problem with my mk4 golf so in a way im not that bothered as im used to it! but its still anoying

[markyvrs]

I leave it a good few seconds after the light has gone out before I attempt to turn it over. Mine always starts first time but can be lumpy if I'm too keen to start it when it's cold.

[Dolla]

Never had this problem,my car is sometimes left all week parked at work as i work away,when i come back always starts first time.. :p

[kerrbryan]

Never had any of these problems. My car hasnt done many miles recently and starts first time every time. (touch wood)

As said I would look at battery and new plugs as a start.

[silver1011]

I am in exactly the same position, I also have a PD140 Scout which starts instantly, the PD170 vRS in comparison really struggles, so much so if I'm used to the Scout and I don't turn the key long enough in the vRS I end up having to try a second time to get it to fire.

And even then it's real lumpy for a few seconds.

I tried a recommendation on here to run the ignition/glow plugs through three cycles before starting to see if it helped, it made no difference.

The difference between the PD140 and my PD170 is night and day, I'm sure something is wrong...

[Jane_i10]

I am in exactly the same position, I also have a PD140 Scout which starts instantly, the PD170 vRS in comparison really struggles, so much so if I'm used to the Scout and I don't turn the key long enough in the vRS I end up having to try a second time to get it to fire.

And even then it's real lumpy for a few seconds.

I tried a recommendation on here to run the ignition/glow plugs through three cycles before starting to see if it helped, it made no difference.

The difference between the PD140 and my PD170 is night and day, I'm sure something is wrong...

wouldt that have wear on the lift pump after some time?

mine doest help with the fact my dmf is gone, even more lumpy on start up!

[silver1011]

Do you mean the three cycles for the glow plugs? I'm not sure what a lift pump is.

I only three cycled the glow plugs once as a test to see if it improved starting, if it did then I would know that changing the glow plugs might cure the problem.

I can't see how it would be the battery, that might explain the extended turning over but would a failing battery be responsible for a rough initial tickover?

[Jane_i10]

Do you mean the three cycles for the glow plugs? I'm not sure what a lift pump is.

I only three cycled the glow plugs once as a test to see if it improved starting, if it did then I would know that changing the glow plugs might cure the problem.

I can't see how it would be the battery, that might explain the extended turning over but would a failing battery be responsible for a rough initial tickover?

The lift pump is what what lifts the fuel out the tank.

well the only way i can see it been battery related is obviously the battery charges the glow plugs and im guessing they take abit of juice and on a weak battery this can affect starting performance but the engine cranks fine, anyone would point straight to the fuel as the last peice of the puzzel, its getting air, power so the last bit would be the fuel.

the one thing i dont like is that the glow plug does not change as the temp does, it can be 7 degrees or -7 and the glow plugs with light for the same amount of time

i remember on my dads mercedes van (its about 30 years old) that the glow plugs had to be done manually and the cold it was the longer they had to be on, common sense?

[silver1011]

On my old Peugeot 306 (1999) the glow light seemed to stay on for a little longer in the cold?

But, on the Scout the doesn't matter whether is plus 20 or minus 10 the time never changes and that seems to start even quicker in the cold.

I'll wait for the next service and drop the vRS off the night before at the dealer so that they can start it from cold and see for themselves.

I know what they'll say though, no fault code = no problem = can't be arsed to perform the role of a mechanic, ignore the laptop and use some good old time intensive investigative work.

Edited 11 December, 2011 by silver1011

[Jane_i10]

On my old Peugeot 306 (1999) the glow light seemed to stay on for a little longer in the cold?

But, on the Scout the doesn't matter whether is plus 20 or minus 10 the time never changes and that seems to start even quicker in the cold.

I'll wait for the next service and drop the vRS off the night before at the dealer so that they can start it from cold and see for themselves.

I know what they'll say though, no fault code = no problem = can't be arsed to perform the role of a mechanic, ignore the laptop and use some good old time intensive investigative work.

this is the case nowadays..take car in for a problem...straight on the vagcom..erm how about pop the bonnet and have a look? wish i could get their wage to open up a laptop and say 'computer says no'

[nick74]

But, on the Scout the doesn't matter whether is plus 20 or minus 10 the time never changes and that seems to start even quicker in the cold.

I'm quite surprised by that as on my PD140 there is a very noticeable difference between hot and cold weather in how long the glow plug light stays on. In hot weather it flicks on for a second, in very cold weather you virtually sit there looking at your watch waiting for it to go out! Having said that the PD140 in the Scout is different to the PD140 in the fwd Octys so the software may be completely different also.

[silver1011]

It's on for such a short time I hardly ever even see it. By the time I've turned on the ignition, looked down and focused on the lights it's gone off.

We had the hardest frost of the year on Saturday morning (York), rain late in the evening, -2.5 degrees and a thick covering, enough to make the doors difficult to open. Despite this, a quick flash of the glowplug light and an instant start-up.

The whole reason I took the Scout that morning was because I knew the vRS would struggle!

[nick74]

I have heard of leaking injector seals causing poor cold starting on PDs, but this should have been sorted out on the VRS if you had the free injector replacement done?

[Jane_i10]

I have heard of leaking injector seals causing poor cold starting on PDs, but this should have been sorted out on the VRS if you had the free injector replacement done?

which ones did this apply to?

mine is only bad at starting one that first start of the day, after that it seems to be ok

it is under a years warranty, if i took it back to skoda to do a cold start (not only to diagnose the cold start issue but for the DMF aswell) would they charge me for this? as i know they do with the vag com (£48 )

[nick74]

which ones did this apply to?

mine is only bad at starting one that first start of the day, after that it seems to be ok

it is under a years warranty, if i took it back to skoda to do a cold start (not only to diagnose the cold start issue but for the DMF aswell) would they charge me for this? as i know they do with the vag com (£48 )

Its not an official recall but VAG will replace the injectors for free on PD engines with Siemens piezo injectors. In the case of the Octavia it only applies to the VRS PD as the other PDs were solenoid injectors.

I've never been charged for diagnostic work under warranty.

[Jane_i10]

Its not an official recall but VAG will replace the injectors for free on PD engines with Siemens piezo injectors. In the case of the Octavia it only applies to the VRS PD as the other PDs were solenoid injectors.

I've never been charged for diagnostic work under warranty.

hmmm

when i rung up my dealership asking about the glow plug she said to me bring it in and we will test them, does this testing require vag cam? then i can get away without paying

edit:

Rung Skoda UK, asked them about the diagnostics charge to which they said yes they can charge and asked about replacing the seals on the injectors, to which they said yes they will but will need to inpect the car first, well duh...

Also rung my dealership about leaving it with them for overnight so they can start it in the morning, also when its the first start up this highlights just how knackered my DMF is, just waiting for them to get back to me.

Edited 12 December, 2011 by Ema_jane

[silver1011]

hmmm

when i rung up my dealership asking about the glow plug she said to me bring it in and we will test them, does this testing require vag cam? then i can get away without paying.

Your vRS is almost identical to mine in terms of reg date, I had all four injectors replaced (and the wiring loom) just after I bought it in October for free in York.

I think I also use the same dealer as you too (DM Keith York)? They told me the same, they wouldn't look at it to determine if I had the faulty injectors without charging me half an hours labour. A quick call to Dan at Skoda UK (08457 745745) resulted in an apologetic call back from DM Keith telling me that they were wrong and to bring it back in, not for a check but to have them replaced any way.

For the last few months this has not been an official recall, it just flagged up as an advisory on the system, however it is now. Skoda will be contacting all affected owners. Just make sure you are the listed owner on Skoda's system (not just with the DVLA / V5C) to ensure they can get in touch. As you bought from a dealer then you already should be.

There is a huge thread on this in this same forum.

However, back on topic, I can eliminate the injector issue as possible cause for the dodgy starting as they were replaced less than 8 weeks ago.

Speaking of which, my vRS was stood all weekend since I got back from work on Friday night. This morning it was +2.0 degrees but the windscreen was frozen. For a few seconds I didn't think it would catch, it was the worst it's been since I got it. It seems the colder the engine / ambient temperature the worse it is.

I hope it doesn't get as bad as last year, I remember starting the Scout up one morning and seeing -15 degrees on the display. If the vRS is struggling at +2 I don't hold out much hope if it gets much colder.

Anyone know if replacing the glow plugs is a relatively easy DIY? This may be something I can try myself, followed perhaps by a new battery...

[Jane_i10]

right my car is DM Keith now for cold start problems (left it with them over night) and they are also doing the recall on the injectors, just rung them now as im only insured on the loan car for another 5 hours and it takes an hour an half to get there but they still have no answers as to why the car is not starting, when i get mine back ill let you know what has been changed.

[Urpeth]

I drive a 07 plate 2.0 TDI PD VRS estate and starts perfectly from cold, but have experienced terrible problems when starting from warm from the past 4 months. I’ve replaced DPF, had an early service and recently had x4 fuel injectors replaced (due to product recall), but the problem persists. Car needs to be cranked 5 times or more from warm and cruise control will never operate if excessive cranking has been required to start the car.

It has been suggested that replacement of the camshaft sensor might solve the problem.

Don’t know if there is commonality with your difficulties.

Any opinions would be welcome.