If it's quiet and I'm sat in Lane 1 with no traffic ahead in my lane, but there is some clueless idiot sat in Lane 2, then I don't think I've ever bothered to go all the way across to Lane 3 to pass them and I don't see why I should - I'd have thought it'd be covered by Rule 268 anyway. I just sit in Lane 1 where I've been for the past 5 minutes and will likely be for next 5 or 10 too.

Having said that, if there are any Police around when it's like that I'll have probably spotted them and hence will play it safe and go in to Lane 3.

Edited 26 July, 201213 yr by ckyliu

If it's quiet and I'm sat in Lane 1 with no traffic ahead in my lane, but there is some clueless idiot sat in Lane 2, then I don't think I've ever bothered to go all the way across to Lane 3 to pass them and I don't see why I should - I'd have thought it'd be covered by Rule 268 anyway. I just sit in Lane 1 where I've been for the past 5 minutes and will likely be for next 5 or 10 too.

How about because its against the law and dangerous.

Law doesn't cover you for doing this it specifically states - In congested conditions.......

I don't condone those that hog lanes 2 or 3 but if they are dim and selfish enough to do that the chances are they are dim enough to pull back into lane 1 without checking mirrors while you are undertaking them.

How about because its against the law and dangerous.

But it's not on either count (although the second is obviously more open to debate ;-)).

Focussing on the second point, the main objective when driving is to remain safe and when considering overtaking on the left, one must be mindful that undertaking is generally unexpected and so one must be sure that the person to be undertaken is stable and unlikely to change lanes when you're alongside them (with the option of using the hard shoulder as an escape route) and weigh that up against using the more predictable lane 3 for an overtake. Imho, I don't think undertake is implicitly unsafe, but there may be better, more safe, options available.

Chris

But it's not on either count (although the second is obviously more open to debate ;-)).

Focussing on the second point, the main objective when driving is to remain safe and when considering overtaking on the left, one must be mindful that undertaking is generally unexpected and so one must be sure that the person to be undertaken is stable and unlikely to change lanes when you're alongside them (with the option of using the hard shoulder as an escape route) and weigh that up against using the more predictable lane 3 for an overtake. Imho, I don't think undertake is implicitly unsafe, but there may be better, more safe, options available.

Chris

Don't I just know it ey!

But it's not on either count (although the second is obviously more open to debate ;-)).

Sorry, but no debate - Rule 268 explicitly says that undertaking is only allowed in congested conditions. You my try to debate what contested conditions are but I think you will find that in a court of law this would be classed as very slow moving traffic across all lanes.

Sorry, but no debate - Rule 268 explicitly says that undertaking is only allowed in congested conditions. You my try to debate what contested conditions are but I think you will find that in a court of law this would be classed as very slow moving traffic across all lanes.

unless you are on a motorbike where the highway code doesn't apply

Sorry, but no debate - Rule 268 explicitly says that undertaking is only allowed in congested conditions. You my try to debate what contested conditions are but I think you will find that in a court of law this would be classed as very slow moving traffic across all lanes.

Indeed it does - Highway Code *advice* rather than law though so in a court of law, which law are they prosecuting you for transgressing?

Chris

Ok, so no specific law in the Code but whether its a highway code, or an animal welfare code or whatever kind of code, these codes are seen as "good practice". Just as I am highly likely to be protected for animal cruelty if I don'e follow welfare codes with my farm livestock then a driver would not have much defence in court for not following accepted good practice on the roads - Driving without due care and attention would be the obvios charge -

unless as you point out you were diving a bike (motor or otherwise) where the law apparantly states it is perfectly safe to weave between the traffic and it is alwats the car drivers fault if the bike gets hit

Ok, so no specific law in the Code but whether its a highway code, or an animal welfare code or whatever kind of code, these codes are seen as "good practice". Just as I am highly likely to be protected for animal cruelty if I don'e follow welfare codes with my farm livestock then a driver would not have much defence in court for not following accepted good practice on the roads - Driving without due care and attention would be the obvios charge -

As I said earlier in the thread, it can form *part* of a driving without due care and attention prosecution case, but it's not illegal in itself and it's not enough to prosecute for driving without due care and attention on its own. Your black and white statement that it is a) illegal and dangerous is what I was responding to.

Chris

As I said earlier in the thread, it can form *part* of a driving without due care and attention prosecution case, but it's not illegal in itself and it's not enough to prosecute for driving without due care and attention on its own. Your black and white statement that it is a) illegal and dangerous is what I was responding to.

Chris

I stand by my view that undertaking is a dangerous manouver which it infringes the code of good practice, which the Highway Code is, and so can and does lead to prosecutions. We will have to agree to differ

I stand by my view that undertaking is a dangerous manouver which it infringes the code of good practice, which the Highway Code is, and so can and does lead to prosecutions. We will have to agree to differ

Ok, more or less real situation:-

I am proceeding at the posted speed limit. I catch a lane hog who is proceeding at Limit-10mph in the outermost lane, and remains there whilst a queue builds behind him. We are literally miles from any junction. I move over 2 lanes and accelerate.

Explain to me how that is dangerous, if you can.

Ok, more or less real situation:-

I am proceeding at the posted speed limit. I catch a lane hog who is proceeding at Limit-10mph in the outermost lane, and remains there whilst a queue builds behind him. We are literally miles from any junction. I move over 2 lanes and accelerate.

Explain to me how that is dangerous, if you can.

That's how I view it... driving on the M3 today, and got so sick of morons who just sit doggedly in lanes. I try to stick to lane 1 where possible, and move back in after an overtake.

I noticed that, whilst heading up to the Midlands on Saturday, the standard of motorway driving was a LOT better than down south.

Ok, more or less real situation:-

I am proceeding at the posted speed limit. I catch a lane hog who is proceeding at Limit-10mph in the outermost lane, and remains there whilst a queue builds behind him. We are literally miles from any junction. I move over 2 lanes and accelerate.

Explain to me how that is dangerous, if you can.

In these particular circumstances I would not view this as particularly dangerous - but still contravenes the HC and leaves you open to prosecution IF something unforeseen goes wrong.

What I do find dangerous and utterly stupid is the practice (which some on here seem to think acceptable) of passing on the inside, 1 lane in, at say 70 mpg when the car in the outside is doing say 60. It happens regularly - I had a work mate got caught out while doing this last week and was very lucky to escape with little more that a lost wing mirror when the car on the outside decided to pull over.

A lot of this discussion assumes that there is no difference between lanes 1,2 and 3. Lane 1 is often badly rutted by HGVs. In wet weather, or icy conditions or if it feels like the car's really starting to steer itself along the ruts (particularly unnerving), I'll happily stick to lane 2 for a while. That said, I don't then drive at a snail's pace relative to the traffic and I pull over when the ruts have gone again.

Having driven a lot abroad, sometimes I think 2 lanes work better than 3 because everyone knows where to be - either you're overtaking or you're not and you're in lane 1.

Edited 19 August, 201213 yr by Yearofthegoat

A lot of this discussion assumes that there is no difference between lanes 1,2 and 3. Lane 1 is often badly rutted by HGVs. In wet weather, or icy conditions or if it feels like the car's really starting to steer itself along the ruts (particularly unnerving), I'll happily stick to lane 2 for a while. That said, I don't then drive at a snail's pace relative to the traffic and I pull over when the ruts have gone again.

Having driven a lot abroad, sometimes I think 2 lanes work better than 3 because everyone knows where to be - either you're overtaking or you're not and you're in lane 1.

I fond this not to alwys be the case. As even with two lanes of traffic during week lane one seems to have HGVs every mile or so, this mean most drivers become and lazy and filled wi thier own self importanct that there journey is more important then everyone around them and stay in lane 2 before you know lane becomes slow then HGVs "following the flow of traffic" pass you doing 56MPH its a joke.

And the more lanes envolved the worse it gets

It seems

lane 1 is for HGVs or caravan lol

Lane 2 people who typically travel about 60mph who cant be arsed to move between lanes when they approach the slightly slower HGV so sit in lane 2 or coaches partically National express ones

This means lane 3 fills with average people trying to make progress and get round thoese hogging lane 2. Self important reps and german saloons doing 3 figure speeds and flash and tailgate you for daring to do the 70mph limit whist overtaking the idiots in lane 2, and white van men who are much like those in german saloons.

Lane 2 people who typically travel about 60mph who cant be arsed to move between lanes when they approach the slightly slower HGV so sit in lane 2 or coaches partically National express ones

TBF coach drivers would be running faster, about 65mph. if they could, but they're not allowed in Lane 3 so can't overtake the CLOGies.

I undertook many people yesterday evening coming home from Silverstone after Trax, I was happily sat on cruise control all the way home slap bang on 70mph. I'm not going to swerve all the way over from lane 1 to lane 3 just to overtake the idiot's sat in the middle lane doing 65mph when there is a lengthy gap all the way up lane 1 to the next vehicle that they will have to over take in about 10 mintues once they have eventually caught upto said vehicle.

Call me all you want, but next time your coming to heavy traffic on the motorway, have a look at which lane move's the best, it will always be lane 1 due to the idiot's who sit in the middle lane and swerve between the outer and middle lanes to 'gain distance' Whenever I come upto slow moving traffic my first aim is ALWAYS when safe to do so to move into the inside lane as the LGV's maintain a steady pace instead of booting it and then heavy on the brakes causing more issues.

I undertook many people yesterday evening coming home from Silverstone after Trax, I was happily sat on cruise control all the way home slap bang on 70mph. I'm not going to swerve all the way over from lane 1 to lane 3 just to overtake the idiot's sat in the middle lane doing 65mph when there is a lengthy gap all the way up lane 1 to the next vehicle that they will have to over take in about 10 mintues once they have eventually caught upto said vehicle.

Call me all you want, but next time your coming to heavy traffic on the motorway, have a look at which lane move's the best, it will always be lane 1 due to the idiot's who sit in the middle lane and swerve between the outer and middle lanes to 'gain distance' Whenever I come upto slow moving traffic my first aim is ALWAYS when safe to do so to move into the inside lane as the LGV's maintain a steady pace instead of booting it and then heavy on the brakes causing more issues.

A good way to earn yourself 3 points there!

The only way to legally undertake is in queuing traffic or on a one way system, all other undertaking in th uk is illegal.

We need better lane discipline , in Europe they pull out to overtake, then pull straight back in, I have done driven to the south of France in one day and then taken all day to drive from Dover to Bradford as no lane discipline. Like has been said on earlier posts, Dual carriageways can often be faster as you have to pull back in

This is what frustrates me.

Citroen sitting in lane 3 of 4 doing 65mph.

They spend millions changing the M25 from 3 lanes to 4 just for people to sit in a middle lane hog position, leaving only one passing lane.

I am still out in lane 4 as I am approaching yet another...

Why?

We need Gatling guns, you flash your lights on the stalk then if they have not moved over in 30 seconds they get blasted!

I undertook many people yesterday evening coming home from Silverstone after Trax, I was happily sat on cruise control all the way home slap bang on 70mph. I'm not going to swerve all the way over from lane 1 to lane 3 just to overtake the idiot's sat in the middle lane doing 65mph when there is a lengthy gap all the way up lane 1 to the next vehicle that they will have to over take in about 10 mintues once they have eventually caught upto said vehicle.

If you have to swerve in free-flowing m-way traffic then you are the idiot; try looking more than 5m past the end of your bonet.

Ok, more or less real situation:-

I am proceeding at the posted speed limit. I catch a lane hog who is proceeding at Limit-10mph in the outermost lane, and remains there whilst a queue builds behind him. We are literally miles from any junction. I move over 2 lanes and accelerate.

Explain to me how that is dangerous, if you can.

I will do it in the circumstances described. If I'm right behind the culprit, I'll normally have tried flashing and tooting first and if they're just ignoring everything around them I'll go under. I don't like doing it, I think it's risky more due to the fact the person you are undertaking is a gibbering idiot who is either not paying attention, is senile, is trying to cause problems and therefore is likely to do something else stupid.

Posted this in another thread here but though I'd copy it over just to show how easy it is to be an @rse!

"I have to put my hand up and admit a bit of a "senior moment" when joining a motorway yesterday.

It was at that horrible junction in Glasgow here the slip road from the A82 joins the M8 in the fast lane! After safely joining the motorway I stayed in lane and carried on at about 60 for a few miles and was grumping at cars undertaking me before I realised what I was doing!!!!! major fail............. "

if you stayed in lane you'd have came off at cathedral street!

also the limit there is 50, if people want to go faster they cannot blame you for their lack of progress

tbh you did the safest thing by staying in lane - even if you think you were a "lane hog"