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DSG problem on Octavia II


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#1 iscacamper

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:24

Hi,
I picked up a new-to-me Approved Used Octavia with DSG today (2008 2.0tdi estate) and after the long drive home it's evident that something's not right.

Basically, the problem is as follows. When I lift off the brake, the car should creep. However, rather than creeping smoothly, it surges every couple of seconds, especially when on a slope, making the car hard to control. It's even worse in reverse.

Obviously something's wrong and I intend to get it sorted under the warranty, but I was wondering if anyone has experienced this before and has any idea of the cause? Is this the dreaded mechatronics failure I have heard about?

Thanks in advance.

#2 Auric Goldfinger

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:28

I have an 11plate Tsi Vrs with the same Box, Mines fine. Has the oil/filter in the box been changed, think it's 4 years or 40k miles.

Just a thought, Hope you get it sorted

Andy

#3 iscacamper

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:43

Not sure on the specifics, but it has a full Skoda history and the 'actions at 60,000km' box was ticked at the last service (May 2012) so one would presume this includes the DSG oil change.

Car is at 53,000 miles, by the way.

#4 Grizzle

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:58

quite simple and i know its a hassle but feck it back to them mate.

#5 iscacamper

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 19:10

quite simple and i know its a hassle but feck it back to them mate.


Ummm... What's that English?

#6 Auric Goldfinger

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 19:14

Ummm... What's that English?


Mr Grizzle's from Scotland, :yes: I'll translate for you " Take it back it the dealer you bought it off "

#7 iscacamper

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 20:06

Mr Grizzle's from Scotland, :yes: I'll translate for you " Take it back it the dealer you bought it off "


Ok, thanks for that! :-)

#8 booke23

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:02

Ummm... What's that English?

You mean "What's that in English?"

"What's that English" makes no sense. Kettle Pot Black!

#9 iscacamper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:15

OK, thought I'd post an update on this.

I took the car into the local Skoda dealership yesterday (unfortunately not the supplying dealer, as they are over 100 miles away from me). I demonstrated the faults to a technician (not the master tech) - lurching when creeping on a slope, jerky takeoff, jerky behaviour in first gear. Faults more evident when car is fully warmed up.

They did a software update and claimed the problems were all fixed. Driving home it was evident that the car was still behaving exactly the same, confirmed by an extended test drive later that evening.

After discussions with the local dealer and the supplying dealer, I have decided to take the car straight to the supplying dealer at the expense of an afternoon off work. I am now afraid that after a test drive I will be told that this behaviour is a normal DSG "characteristic".

So I'd like some friendly advice from this forum please! Before I make a wasted journey, can DSG owners please tell how a properly operating DSG box *should* behave.

This is my understanding of how DSG should behave:
- Lifting off the brake, the car should smoothly move forward slowly with no lurching. On a moderate slope, the car should hold on the clutch (until the clutch gets hot, when it will automatically release).
- Behaviour in reverse should be the same as in 1st gear.
- Moving off at junctions etc. should be smooth, with no kangarooing.
- There should be no clunking when changing gear (I sometimes get this from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop)

Is my understanding correct? I'm happy to stand corrected, but I find it hard to believe that the behaviour I am experiencing is normal.

Thanks!

#10 booke23

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:51

Your understanding is correct.

On a slope you may have to have a bit of throttle applied to hold it, but apart from that what you say is how it should behave,

Does sound a bit like a Mechatronics failure.

#11 kalpat

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:10

My DSG behaves OK and not at all like what you are describing. When in Drive or Reverse just lift off the pedal and on the level car moves off smoothly. On a hill you will need a bit of accelerator but still should be smooth.

The only issue I get at junctions and roundabouts is that you can leap forward if you put in too much "gas" pedal. Others have mentioned this and the solution they adopt is to move lever into manual.

Never had any clunking when changing gears. Sounds like you need to get it back to the dealer and if they have another DSG on their forecourt take that out for a test drive with a tech then yours to convince them what is happening.

#12 JR RS

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:32

wat u've described is certainly not normal.

the dealer is simply trying to get out of having to replace the mechatronics unit on urs.
i'd keep pestering them, or get a 2nd/3rd opinions.

#13 iscacamper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:51

Thanks - that's what I thought. As I said, it's going to a different dealer next week (the one I bought the car from). Taking a drive in a different (perferably brand new) DSG is an excellent idea, and I will ask to do this for comparison. Can't stand being taken for a fool.

#14 smigg

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:00

I'd agree with what's been written here on the normal operation of a DSG. I've had mine for nearly 3 weeks now and have not experienced any of the same problems that you've described. Get it back to them and don't let them fob you off with any excuses. Something's wrong and they need to fix it.

#15 wardth

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 14:40

Simple - Sale of Goods Act. Don't understand why you are mucking about - take it back to the dealer you got it from and reject the vehicle as not fit for purpose. I would go so far as saying thats potentially a dangerous vehicle as well and you could possibly not have full control over it.

#16 iscacamper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 14:42

wardth - yes, but I have to give the seller the opportunity to rectify the problem before I can reject the car under the Sale of Goods Act. That is the route I am currently taking.

#17 eccleshill

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 14:56

My answers/comments are in bold

NB I have a different gearbox to you - mine is a 25k mile old 7 speed dry clutch version but I have driven the 6 speed wet clutch version in a Passat 2.0 diesel and apart from the slight jolt/clunk when selecting D or R from N/P on the 6 speed which is totally absent from the 7 speed, they drive the same. I have also driven the 7 speed in 2 other 1.6 CR diesel Octavias - as smooth and silky as my 1.8TSi (the gearbox - not the engine :giggle: ).
My comments below are true whether the engine/gearbox are hot or cold.

[your] understanding of how DSG should behave:
- Lifting off the brake, the car should smoothly move forward slowly with no lurching. On a moderate slope, the car should hold on the clutch (until the clutch gets hot, when it will automatically release).
I assume you mean with foot off the throttle? On the flat or very gentle slope then yes. On a moderate slope mine stays stationary on the auto hill hold but when that releases it rolls back down the hill - it doesn't hold on the clutch
- Behaviour in reverse should be the same as in 1st gear.
Yes - as my comments above
- Moving off at junctions etc. should be smooth, with no kangarooing.
Yes - whether moving off gently, under really hard full throttle acceleration and all points in between
- There should be no clunking when changing gear (I sometimes get this from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop)
Yes - my gear changes are undetectable - silent and smooth. Only exception is in "S" mode when braking moderately hard down to a halt there is a slight lurch from 3 to 2 and a slightly more noticeable lurch 2 to 1, but this really is nit-picking and is probably due to extra engine braking as the lower gear is engaged rather than lack of smoothness in the gearbox. This is the only time you know it has changed gear other than by looking at the rev counter or the gear indicator in the maxidot (yes! the 1.8TSi really is that quiet!!).

#18 iscacamper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 15:01

Thanks again for the info everyone. You've put my mind at rest that I'm not going insane.

It's going into the dealer's next Tuesday, so I'll report back what they say...

#19 Auric Goldfinger

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 15:20

This is my understanding of how DSG should behave:
- Lifting off the brake, the car should smoothly move forward slowly with no lurching. On a moderate slope, the car should hold on the clutch (until the clutch gets hot, when it will automatically release).
- Behaviour in reverse should be the same as in 1st gear.
- Moving off at junctions etc. should be smooth, with no kangarooing.
- There should be no clunking when changing gear (I sometimes get this from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop)



Exactly how mine drives
Octavis TSi FL Vrs with DSG ( 11 plate )

#20 Mysticality

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 15:36

I test drove a Scout 103TDI DSG and it lurched and all that.
I put it down to it being an automated manual.
It put me right off considering DSG's... Although, I was going Manual, anyway. ;)

Foot off brake - wait for a sec, then it takes off!
Foot slightly on brake, it'll slow right down, and then the clutch will disengage and stop like a manual - I.E. no engine pull!

#21 rockhopper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 18:43

I must say that I have not driven any DSG that moves away smoothly. It is more of a smooth lurch forwards. They can be tricky to move forwards just a couple of inches because of this.

They do not drive like a torque converter automatic which is very smooth.

When going up a steep hill and say coming to a halt, but very slowly, as soon as I lift off the throttle, there is a jerk as the clutch disengages. It doesn't happen if I have been using the brakes, but it does if I am only using the throttle and only doing 2-3mph maximum. Likewise reversing up a steep slope can be tricky. This has been noted many times in many DSG threads over time. It takes getting used to. Very low speed manoeuvres with a DSG is s skill you acquire but is a doddle in a 'normal' auto.

I also have a slight clunk when it drops down into 1st.

The car does not kangaroo when moving off, but on the odd occasion it has done so when part warm, normally in 2nd or 3rd gear. Not noticed it in 1st.

Edited by rockhopper, 03 October 2012 - 18:46.


#22 sherlocks VRS

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 19:12

From the symptoms that have been described it could be the clutch pack especially if it only lurches when in 1st and reverse but smooth in the rest of the gears

#23 TB1

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 19:21

Might be the switch on the brake peddle. As already mentioned, it's the dealer's problem.

#24 iscacamper

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 13:14

Might be the switch on the brake peddle. As already mentioned, it's the dealer's problem.


Yes, but the trouble is that if the dealer won't admit there's a problem, then it becomes my problem!

Will find out on Tuesday.

#25 iscacamper

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:08

OK, update...
The car went back to the supplying dealership today. I went on a road test with a tech, and the initial response was the usual 'well, these gearboxes are a bit odd' excuse. I demonstrated the fault (repetetive lurching on a slope) and got little response and no acknowledgement of a fault. Then we tested another Octavia with DSG for comparison, and lo and behold this car behaved perfectly on the same slope - a smooth creep both in drive and reverse after the initial clutch take-up. The tech acknowledged that my car wasn't behaving the same and agreed to take the car in and contact Skoda for advice.

I now feel I have at least crossed the first hurdle by getting the dealer to admit something's amiss. Now I have to wait and see what happens.

Really I feel the techs don't seem to know the proper behaviour of these gearboxes very well - or they are trying to fob people off.

#26 Tilt

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 19:16

I drive a 1.9 105 estate with a dsg box, 55 plate & 120k miles & it drives & changes gear as you would expect it to. ie properly & pretty smoothly. It did require a new dmf fitting (recognised by rattle on idle, heard behind nsf wheel) when i bought it, but two years later on & no problems have arisen. Mainly wanted to say mine does remain "in gear" even with foot on brake & the manual recommends selecting neutral when at lights etc to save the clutch from overheating. Makes sense, other dsg's may? differ though. I can only comment on mine.
There's a lot of speed bumps around here so to stop it changing gear when I don't want it to, I just push it into manual select. Simples.
Thoroughly recommend dsg, especially for diesels & their need to change from 1st to 2nd at about 2mph, ha ha.
I had a 120bhp saab 9-3 manual & it is much easier pulling off, & at islands, with the dsg in the skoda.

#27 reverse

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:41

I must say - reading comments here about "DSG doesn't move away smoothly" etc - I must be very lucky to have an "odd" version then. Mine is super smooth. And as mentioned above also - only way to see that gears have changed is to look at Maxidot or rev counter. When it comes to putting it to neutral at traffic lights - my cars user manual tells me not to do that, as it is not needed at all. Weird then, how even manuals can differ :)

- driving a 2012 DSG CR vRS

#28 Herschel

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:06

Mine also seems to remain in gear when stopped with foot on brake - if I lift slightly, the car creeps forward until I use the brake again.

Pulls away smoothly every time.

I also get very very minimal rollback, even on steep inclines - so it must disengage and re-engage the clutch, but it must do so quicker than you can tell in the car; at least for me anyway..........

Edited by Herschel, 11 October 2012 - 08:06.


#29 iscacamper

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:06

Yes, it does remain in gear with the footbrake applied, but it disengages the clutch, so it is effectively in neutral when stopped. When you release the brake, the clutch quickly engages (or it should!), allowing the car to 'creep'. That's my understanding at least. The manual for my car says you don't need to put it in Neutral at traffic lights, as the drive is disengaged by the clutch when the footbrake is applied. Stopping in gear with the handbrake on, though, is a no-no as it will slip the clutch in an effort to pull forward unless you put the gear selector in Neutral.

#30 iscacamper

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:33

I should add that the comparison car I drove when I took my car into the dealers was super-smooth, with no jerking at all on take-off, seamless downshifts when braking (unlike my car), and of course no lurching on creep. It was a 58-reg 1.9TDI Octy 6-speed DSG, so there are definitely some good'uns out there.