Coming second:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20253276

Being fined for infringing someone else's patent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20236114

.....I especially like the phrase: "Apple developers testified that they didn't pay any attention to anyone's patents when developing their system" arrogant *******!

You can just imagine the attitude of Apple when that one landed on their mat: "Yeah, we're Apple, bring it on baby!"

Coupled with defeat in the UK and being told off for not doing the apology correctly (and then stating they'd need 14 days to change it. The judge so loved that one that he requested that the head of Apple can and said why, it would take so long. Oddly Apple declined.) Defeat in Germany too, along with a US judge being very skeptical about Apple vs Amazon, a review of the $1bn fine against Samsung, and the possibility of having to work around VirnetX's software patent, these are more than a few minor setbacks.

VirnetX could request a sales ban on all of the Apple devices that infringe said patent - won't help their 2nd place sales much

The days of litigating instead of innovating could well be numbered.........

And this is why I hate Apple.

They jump straight in when someone else infringe on their patents etc but then when they're developing their systems they are too arrogant to even bother checking if they are infringing someone elses patents.

Phil

The second place in sales is only temporary, since the iPhone 5 was due out at the end of the quater a lot of people were holding out and not buying what was about to become last years phone. Now the iPhone 5 is out, its outselling the Samsung in quiet substantial numbers.

I must be the only one who seems to have had enough of these patent wars, I truely beleive that innovation is being held up by a select few companies who patent anything for anythings sake, just to make a few quid here and there.

I must be the only one who seems to have had enough of these patent wars, I truely beleive that innovation is being held up by a select few companies who patent anything for anythings sake, just to make a few quid here and there.

No you certainly are not, I think most people who are not into the ‘claim culture’ would agree with you.

It all does seem a bit pointless though unless you go after the Chinese and their R&D policy.

I must be the only one who seems to have had enough of these patent wars, I truely beleive that innovation is being held up by a select few companies who patent anything for anythings sake, just to make a few quid here and there.

It's more than a few quid though - when I worked for IBM (recognised as one of the companies at or near the top of the patent league table), more than $1 billion of revenue each year came just from licensing of patents.

Chris

Haters gonna hate.

my kitchen work top's got 'rounded corners', am I in breach of copywright :think: I don't want crapple lawyers knocking on the door

All the big companies have lawyers looking for copyright infringement. I have a customer, in there company name is "intel" the first five letters anyway, the company is called intelpack, within weeks of setting up they are in trouble with intel claiming they own copyright on that word! They have had to change the company name!

The British Legion, have ordered project mobility to remove the poppy from the website and the facebook page, as the British Legion claim the copyright to use the poppy symbol.

So whether Apple or any of the taiwanistan electronics manufacturers invent/lay claim to something that can be patented they will and then they will sue each other for as much as they can get.

Why incur all the launch costs when you can let another firm take the "will it sell" gamble, then take a cut of their nothing with next to nothing in capital outlay.

Who cares you's need to get out more

Soooo much apple hate why? You don't like their kit fair one why the bashing? I use apple a fair bit because the stuff works without messing. Tried android its ok but not quite there for me yet.

Always wondered what the problem is that people feel the need to scream about it and post threads slagging apple off.

Surely if you feel you've created something and someone else just copies/steals your ideas and work you'd want what's yours? I think it's going too far at the moment but what do you do

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Soooo much apple hate why? You don't like their kit fair one why the bashing? I use apple a fair bit because the stuff works without messing. Tried android its ok but not quite there for me yet.

Always wondered what the problem is that people feel the need to scream about it and post threads slagging apple off.

Surely if you feel you've created something and someone else just copies/steals your ideas and work you'd want what's yours? I think it's going too far at the moment but what do you do

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Apple are the world's worst at copying others and passing it off as their own for decades

I think they've improved things like mp3 etc don't know about copying I'm sure if that was the case someone would have sued them no?

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They may not have invented the wheel so to speak but the phrase designed by … (insert manufacturer of choice) refined by Apple has never been more appropriate IMO.

I think they've improved things like mp3 etc don't know about copying I'm sure if that was the case someone would have sued them no?

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How? By cutting the bit rate and quality so you can show millions rather than 100's of tracks on an ipod whilst charging more per track than it would cost if you bought a physical a single or album?

How? By cutting the bit rate and quality so you can show millions rather than 100's of tracks on an ipod whilst charging more per track than it would cost if you bought a physical a single or album?

You don't think they revolutionised the way we listen to music? If you want top quality you buy a cd but for a Walkman size device be able to carry that music with you (I travel a lot) it's similar to what the Ebook has done for books I love physical books but with weight allowances when I travel you're limited to 2-3 paper backs realistically which when you're away for a month doesn't let's long.

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How? By cutting the bit rate and quality so you can show millions rather than 100's of tracks on an ipod whilst charging more per track than it would cost if you bought a physical a single or album?

You don't think they revolutionised the way we listen to music? If you want top quality you buy a cd but for a Walkman size device be able to carry that music with you (I travel a lot) it's similar to what the Ebook has done for books I love physical books but with weight allowances when I travel you're limited to 2-3 paper backs realistically which when you're away for a month doesn't last long.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You don't think they revolutionised the way we listen to music? If you want top quality you buy a cd but for a Walkman size device be able to carry that music with you (I travel a lot) it's similar to what the Ebook has done for books I love physical books but with weight allowances when I travel you're limited to 2-3 paper backs realistically which when you're away for a month doesn't last long.

"Revolutionsed the way we listen to music by having a Walkman size device"? Apple revolutionised the way we listen to music by copying a Sony Walkman?

The personal stereo was around long before Applie discovered the letter "i". Pocket MP3 players were around before Apple "invented" the iPod.

The analagy with E-Readers is interesting. I wonder how long it will be before Apple claim to have invented those too.

They may not have invented the wheel so to speak but the phrase designed by … (insert manufacturer of choice) refined by Apple has never been more appropriate IMO.

May be appropriate, even true in some cases, but that would mean Apple giving someone else credit. :|

Surely if you feel you've created something and someone else just copies/steals your ideas and work you'd want what's yours? I think it's going too far at the moment but what do you do

Someone once said that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", but they probably weren't interested in stifling competition at the time.

The second place in sales is only temporary, since the iPhone 5 was due out at the end of the quater a lot of people were holding out and not buying what was about to become last years phone. Now the iPhone 5 is out, its outselling the Samsung in quiet substantial numbers.

The iPhone 5 is last years phone. It doesn't do anything that the iPhone 4/4S doesn't do. (Unless you're in China).

I must be the only one who seems to have had enough of these patent wars, I truely beleive that innovation is being held up by a select few companies who patent anything for anythings sake, just to make a few quid here and there.

No, you're not. The patent wars only seem to be invoked by those who wish to stop any competition. Apple swapped innovation and litigation some time ago. I suspect that they'll soon start sueing other companies, because Apple "totally invented litigation" as well.

You'd have to wonder what sort of mess we'd be in if car manufacturers were doing this to each other all the time. How Ford would be sueing GM because the box has four doors, four wheels and you turn a nob to put the lights on................and comes in black too!

I couldn't believe I had to install itunes to put music on our lads ipod. Fortunately I have XP running on a virtual machine on my Ubuntu/Linux but not happy I can't just drag & drop. Looks like I have to have a bloody iphone through work soon too! Make Microsoft look like saints.

Apple have earned the knocking they get in a number of ways. In music terms, they have commercially dominated a market where they have imposed inferior sound quality on the end user by limiting the bit rate. I suppose you could say they revolutionised the way we listen to music by virtue of the fact that they conned the mass market into accepting inferior sound quality.

Their consistent use of aggressive litigation kicked off well in the mobile music scene. They tried to sue Cowon for having the name iAudio on their player, even though it was on the market over a year before the first iPod. In reality, Apple where quite late into the portable music player industry.

Where they have been incredibly clever is in their marketing. In the early days, they aimed their computers at the media market (especially photo editing / graphics industry). Of course the media has a strong influence on the buying public. This and slick marketing creating an aspirational brand with an almost religious following means that people who buy into the brand are often boastful and rudely dismissive of other options. Of course this makes people who dont buy into the brand a bit resentful of the brand snob iFan. An indicator of just how tight a hold Apple have on their iFans is that Apple can launch a phone that needs an expensive adapter to connect to existing hardware and iFans just lap it up.

The truth is that the iProducts are OK, a little better than some competitors in some areas, a little worse in others. They like to portray market dominance by clever marketing. The iPhone may be the biggest selling phone, but ios only accounts for 14% of the mobile phone market in the UK. Where Samsung, HTC et al have multiple models on the market, this dilutes the sales total by model, but Samsung shift more phones than Apple when you add up sales of the full Galaxy range and by some margin.

I think it is time the courts started taking a tough line on these lawsuits. Patents for things like basic shapes (rectangles with rounded corners / slide to unlock... FFS) should be unenforcable. It is not like Apple got there first, HP where making tablet PCs years before the iPad for example, so it is not as though it was Apples original idea. Imagine how good these products could be if the legal budget was spent in the development labs.

Chris

On a slightly related note, this made me chuckle: http://boingboing.net/2012/11/08/microsoft-patents-spying-on-yo.html

Chris

On a slightly related note, this made me chuckle: http://boingboing.net/2012/11/08/microsoft-patents-spying-on-yo.html

Chris

At some point, a media company has to concede that once it puts something out into the marketplace, it is out there and beyond their control. The media industry pushed digital tech in the interests of reducing costs / increasing margins. It has of course made it harder for them to control the product post sale as a result.

Chris

They'd be better developing the products more for the enterprise. RIM has just got FIPS140-2 for their v10 operating system. iOS is used on sufferance and Android is kept as far away as possibly since it's just so insecure.

I don't think I've really seen anything properly innovative for a good few years. At the moment it's just more of the same but smaller/faster etc.

Apple wins on styling and user interface. Their products are 'cool'.

The tech nerds can't cope with this because other products are 'better' in spec and 'did it first'!

But Apple have been riding an incredible wave, particularly in their stock value - so it was time they got knocked back a bit!

I think with the copying thing, every major company copies another. Most products on the market will have a rival brands at he same price with an equivalent spec... A companies have been during each other for years! It's just the way of the world! Apple may have stolen some things, but they are innovators in interface and packaging!

I think with the copying thing, every major company copies another. Most products on the market will have a rival brands at he same price with an equivalent spec... A companies have been during each other for years! It's just the way of the world! Apple may have stolen some things, but they are innovators in interface and packaging!

I'd agree, but intellectual property is big business and so getting there first is a good thing and very lucrative so most big companies (I suspect Apple included) will be paying their developers handsomely to file patents that will then become revenue generators. I'm not sure I see the benefit in filing a patent for a rectanglular shaped device with rounded corners nor really how that is "innovative" and I'm surprised it was allowed (but based on my experience with patent lawyers, I suspect that clever legal jargon made it sound important). However, being able to use multi-touch gestures to navigate, for example, is a great invention although ironically Apple didn't invent that either but simply acquired the company who did.

Battling in the courts is nothing new though and most high-profile companies spend a large amount of time trying to smear their competitiors. Here's a random example from when Windows first came out:

Windows Version 2.03' date=' and later 3.0, faced challenges from Apple over its overlapping windows and other features Apple charged mimicked the ostensibly copyrighted "look and feel" of its operating system and "embodie[d] and generated a copy of the Macintosh" in its OS. Judge William Schwarzer dropped all but 10 of Apple's 189 claims of copyright infringement, and ruled that most of the remaining 10 were over uncopyrightable ideas.

Chris