IIRC Apple were embarrassed when trying to sue Microsoft over the "look and feel" of the operating system. Xerox (PARC) had patented mice, pointers, icons, drop down menus etc in the '70's. Bill had been smart enough to recognise this and get a licence from Uncle X. Steve's arrogance cost him some serious money back then. Seems he never learned the lesson on that one.

As said since the 5 has been launched its flying out!

And yet over the last week their share price has been tanking despite them selling pretty much everything they can make as fast as it arrives in the stores.

They got rid of a few high level execs which was a very good move (John Browett FFS!) but that seems to have kicked it off.

From a peak of $700 they have now dropped to $537, and this was after various predictions of anything up to $1000.

Could be a decent but risky investment.

WOW some major Apple hate...

Jealousy is a cruel mistress.

This comment from the single track mind of RainbowFire

""Revolutionsed the way we listen to music by having a Walkman size device"? Apple revolutionised the way we listen to music by copying a Sony Walkman?

The personal stereo was around long before Applie discovered the letter "i". Pocket MP3 players were around before Apple "invented" the iPod.

The analagy with E-Readers is interesting. I wonder how long it will be before Apple claim to have invented those too."

What a silly argument, the same thing can be said about any product, First LCD TV was invented in 1983 by Casio shall we all bash the current companies for making LCD screens and TV's

In business if you can market something and sell it a profit and have a great following then you are doing well, the first iphone was revolutionary lets not beat around the bush it was one of the first mobile phones to use a muti touch interface.

I have a few Apple products ipad 3, Apple TV & Macbook, and have had every iphone until the 4s the battery put me right off them when trying to run a business at the time it was useless and would constantly need charging.

Oddly enough my next phone is the new LG Nexus 4 due on the 13th nov. All i'm saying is dont listen to everyones opinions and negativity all the time try it for your self.

The Apple bashing is gettin boring these days, I see a dip in sales in the future judging by the recent updates of the iphone and ipad.

Apple are just reaping what they sowed.

What a silly argument, the same thing can be said about any product, First LCD TV was invented in 1983 by Casio shall we all bash the current companies for making LCD screens and TV's

Maybe you should read what you wrote there and think on it for a moment. Casio haven't sued anyone over LCD screens. Maybe they see a different future to Apple, one where things are done for the benefit of all, not just the shareholders.

There's no new technology on an iPhone........

Mobile phone: 1946 - Bell Systems

Touchscreen: 1960's - IBM

Touchscreen phone: 1995 - IBM

Multi-touch: 1982 - University of Toronto

Portable music player: 1979 - Sony Walkman

Portable digital music player: 1997 - The Audio Player from Audible.com

The gesture of putting a phone to your ear: Alexander Graham Bell, inventor of the telephone

The gesture of slide to unlock: pre-dates the Romans!

.......the only possible physical "innovation" is to have stolen other peoples technologies and ideas and wrap them into one package............but then others have already done the same, so it's not really an innovation.

The "innovation" on an iPhone 5? The marketing to get people to buy it. 5 does exactly the same as 4S, the only difference? (drum roll please) an extra row of buttons on the screen, oh and the requirement that you buy a whole new bunch of connectors so it will connect to everything you bought for the original connector. A whole new raft of devices that will be bought (having been designed with the new connector in mind, oh and a licence paid to Apple for the privilage, IIRC this is on a per item basis, not company wide), oh Kerr-Ching, Kerr-Ching, Kerr-Ching!

The innovation has come from milking the iSheep every 4-6 months with a new "must have" device, which is basically no different to the previous one.

"Bashing" comes when you try and stop people using the same stolen technology you used and people see you for what you are - a bunch of theives. It's easy to make it stop too: go back to the lab instead of the courtroom. Ask people what they actually want from a product, and find a way to make that fast and simple, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel and lose Stratford-upon-Avon in the process. (Does anyone know if Apple have found the town yet?) The arrogance that they know everything and need no-one's help: how much to have taken TomTom up on the offer of a developer to go with the data?.....against the embarressment of cocking it up royal?

http://arstechnica.c...was-the-iphone/

.....makes for interesting reading, especially the part on the second page where it shows Apple copied Android with regards to the notification system.

As does this one:

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/15/business/company-news-xerox-sues-apple-computer-over-macintosh-copyright.html

the serious use of the term iSheep renders any opinion worthless

WOW some major Apple hate...

Jealousy is a cruel mistress.

This comment from the single track mind of RainbowFire

""Revolutionsed the way we listen to music by having a Walkman size device"? Apple revolutionised the way we listen to music by copying a Sony Walkman?

The personal stereo was around long before Applie discovered the letter "i". Pocket MP3 players were around before Apple "invented" the iPod.

The analagy with E-Readers is interesting. I wonder how long it will be before Apple claim to have invented those too."

What a silly argument, the same thing can be said about any product, First LCD TV was invented in 1983 by Casio shall we all bash the current companies for making LCD screens and TV's

In business if you can market something and sell it a profit and have a great following then you are doing well, the first iphone was revolutionary lets not beat around the bush it was one of the first mobile phones to use a muti touch interface.

I have a few Apple products ipad 3, Apple TV & Macbook, and have had every iphone until the 4s the battery put me right off them when trying to run a business at the time it was useless and would constantly need charging.

Oddly enough my next phone is the new LG Nexus 4 due on the 13th nov. All i'm saying is dont listen to everyones opinions and negativity all the time try it for your self.

The Apple bashing is gettin boring these days, I see a dip in sales in the future judging by the recent updates of the iphone and ipad.

I dodnt notice any difference in battery going from 4 to 4s. Too late now tho lol the 5 is equally as good as the 4s too

the serious use of the term iSheep renders any opinion worthless

I read that and all I saw was "Baa Baa!" :p :p

Too late now tho lol the 5 is equally as good as the 4s too

Surely the 5 should be better than the 4s, not "as good as"? :| :|

Kinda made my point for me right there, thank you. :D

Awaiting more bleating from the iSheep now............

Awaiting more bleating from the iSheep now............

How old are you?

12?

I'm no I sheep far from it I've used and tried everything out the at the moment apple works for me but if something that better suits my needs comes out ill buy that regardless of manufacturer. I just find it funny these people bashing apple for no apparent reason is it because you can't afford their products or resent a company doing well or some other reason? seems a little pathetic to me especially when you start labelling all and anyone who uses any apple product isheep. That's like me saying if you use a Samsung phone you're obviously a benefit cheating chav isn't it? Fair enough if you've found something that works better for you personally I haven't I tried android for a bit and it was a little convoluted to do simple things when I tried it I don't slag them off though and I will be trying their new system when I get chance it's a bit like racism when I think about it.

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How old are you?

12?

Wow, that's your "contribution" to the discussion? Epic. I feel your considered counter to my points. :p

The iSheep have an oppurtunity to say something other than "it's Apple so it's *got* to be awesome", and demonstrate where all this "innovation" is in these hallowed products, yet all that is heard is "baa baa!"

I'm no I sheep far from it I've used and tried everything out the at the moment apple works for me but if something that better suits my needs comes out ill buy that regardless of manufacturer. I just find it funny these people bashing apple for no apparent reason is it because you can't afford their products or resent a company doing well or some other reason? seems a little pathetic to me especially when you start labelling all and anyone who uses any apple product isheep. That's like me saying if you use a Samsung phone you're obviously a benefit cheating chav isn't it? Fair enough if you've found something that works better for you personally I haven't I tried android for a bit and it was a little convoluted to do simple things when I tried it I don't slag them off though and I will be trying their new system when I get chance it's a bit like racism when I think about it.

Hmmm, only those people who dribble over the next iProduct and worship at the altar of the Cult Of Apple deserve the label iSheep. There were posts before the 5 had even been announced about how people were *so* looking forward to them and how they'll be first in line to pre-order one........with no hint of what was to come. No hardware spec had been released and only a "teaser" as to what IOS6 was suposed to bring. (So much awesomeness over y'all getting a button to cancel calls). The same people are strangely quiet about the next version of the car they're driving. No-one has yet said that they're queuing up to order an Octavia III on the day all the final specs are released. Maybe more care and consideration is put into the car purchase process instead of "mmmmm shiney". [Homer Simpson face]

Your opening sentence shows you're not an iSheep: "I've used and tried everything out the at the moment". No iSheep would consider soiling their hands and eyes by dareing to look or touch another manufacturer's offering. The fact that you settled on iPhone and iPad is irrelevant: you considered other options. I did the same (there's a thread in here somewhere about it. The iPhone was part of the consideration process too (The thought of having to install iTunes, it's associated malware and other hidden "goodies" didn't help the cause. Neither did the thought of still being iTracked).

Although your closing statement does contradict "I've used and tried everything out the at the moment" if you've not "tried android for a bit", but the benefit of the doubt is given as it's not just Apple vs Andriod is it.

None of the iSheep appears to be capable of constructing a counter to the points that have been raised, or to show how the moniker "iSheep" is incorrect. Maybe we should call them "iWorshippers" instead? Would that hurt their iFeelings less?

"This year we put a "12" on the box." - Tron Legacy.

(Quite apt for Apple really)

I tried android earlier this year with ICS but not tried JB yet hence not used android for a bit just to clear that up for you. Not tried the new S3 but I think it's a little big for me personally. Windows phone not quite there either at the moment for me personally.

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Hmmm' date=' only those people who dribble over the next iProduct and worship at the altar of the Cult Of Apple deserve the label iSheep. There were posts before the 5 had even been announced about how people were *so* looking forward to them and how they'll be first in line to pre-order one........with no hint of what was to come. No hardware spec had been released and only a "teaser" as to what IOS6 was suposed to bring. (So much awesomeness over y'all getting a button to cancel calls). The same people are strangely quiet about the next version of the car they're driving. No-one has yet said that they're queuing up to order an Octavia III on the day all the final specs are released. Maybe more care and consideration is put into the car purchase process instead of "mmmmm shiney". [Homer Simpson face']

Your opening sentence shows you're not an iSheep: "I've used and tried everything out the at the moment". No iSheep would consider soiling their hands and eyes by dareing to look or touch another manufacturer's offering. The fact that you settled on iPhone and iPad is irrelevant: you considered other options. I did the same (there's a thread in here somewhere about it. The iPhone was part of the consideration process too (The thought of having to install iTunes, it's associated malware and other hidden "goodies" didn't help the cause. Neither did the thought of still being iTracked).

Although your closing statement does contradict "I've used and tried everything out the at the moment" if you've not "tried android for a bit", but the benefit of the doubt is given as it's not just Apple vs Andriod is it.

None of the iSheep appears to be capable of constructing a counter to the points that have been raised, or to show how the moniker "iSheep" is incorrect. Maybe we should call them "iWorshippers" instead? Would that hurt their iFeelings less?

So what's wrong with looking forward to something? I looked forward to seeing Skyfall despite not knowing the story or the contents of the fillum.

I also looked forward to going on holiday to Cuba last year without knowing what the country was like. I looked forward to it so much that I paid out a months wages before I'd even been on the holiday.

There will be people who can't wait to own an Octavia 3 but considering that owning a car is substantially more expensive than owning an iPhone I'm sure more research will go into their purchasing decision.

As for your iSheep argument you appear to be disagreeing with the concept of capatilism. Where companies sell things for a profit, and in order to do so they use a dark magic called marketing.

We are all influenced by advertising and peer pressure when we buy stuff. If we weren't then everything would be exactly the same and come in plain brown packaging. Anyone who's ever bought a branded product is a sheep then.

Why buy Audi when a Dacia will get you from A to B?

Why buy a VW when Skoda does the same job for less cash?

Just because someone makes a choice to buy a certain phone doesn't make them a brainless automaton.

(Unless its a blackberry as they are apalling. Lol)

In the last 12 months I've used phones from Nokia, Samsung android, BB and iPhone.

iPhone works for me. Simples.

I'm not going to start abusing all android owners for being massive geeks just because they've chosen an android phone.

Strangely enough Android phones are also marketed at us, quite aggressively in some circumstances. Google invented Android and they use some of the most intrusive data storage software going. Another thing Apple didn't invent.

I suppose it all boils down to the fact that success breeds contempt.

Again, someone who's confusing choice over blind devotion. (and after having admitted to trying others too.) I have no problem with those who have actually made an informed choice (read up on the HID argument - I have no problem with people retro-fitting them as long as they are aware of the potential consequences). As I've said before, Apple's marketing machine do an incredibly good job at getting people to buy last year's products at next year's prices, year after year. You only have to listen to iWorshippers dribblling over the next shiney thing, come May next year there'll be wild inane speculation about what the next iPhone will have on it. The fanatics will be queueing up outside the shops for days on end, and will (as usual) cover their disappointment that the product has not delivered on those speculations by trying to point out deficiencies in other manufacturers offerings. (About the only time [other than in litigation] acknowledge the existance of other manufacturers.) Yet they get extremely upset when there's any mention of negativity about Apple and the iProducts. (Apple had a major hissy fit because the company they vowed to destroy, wouldn't let them have a licence to use their data. So that'll be Google's fault, not the almighty whiter than white Apple.)

You booked a holiday to a random country without any research whatsoever? Just opened the atlas and stuck a pin in? I admire your bravery

Oh, agreed with the BlackBerry description though

You have to agree that blackberry in its day was fantastic though in comparison to my then SE P800 it made emailing on the move so much simpler for me now I wouldn't touch one with a baseball bat but 8-9 years ago they're where fantastic for business. Who knows maybe in 8-9 years apple maybe in the same boat that RIM (blackberry) and Nokia are in now

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Why does anyone actually care? There are hundreds of sickeningly rich, arrogant, planet destroying companies out there. There is nothing you can do about it, so why get so irate? Chill out, sit back and concentrate on your own life lol.

People get very sensitive over their shiny toys. That's all I know for sure.

Maybe Samsung and Apple plan all these tiffs to keep people speaking about them?

There is nothing worse in the fashion business than being ignored, and phones are part of fashion now.

Is there a good phone company? You know, one that releases a new product that is always 0% like anything that has come before, doesn't have an inflated RRP and is priced close to a manufacturing cost, and that doesn't go about telling you that their product is both functional and useful and that you should go and buy it so they can gain your money? - you know, the opposite of the evil Apple company?

'Cause I can't actually think of one. Yet it's always Apple that is named in these types of threads. Not Nokia, not RIM, not Android, Windows or Samsung. Just Apple. Yet I can't really see a single thing that Apple does that another phone company doesn't.

Just seems like hate to me. Which is fine, if you're into hate. Personally I just let them get on with it. If people buy iPhones they buy iPhones, if they don't they don't and Apple have to innovate more or give up. I'm not really sure either way affects me in any meaningful way.

More "unwelcome" news:

$1bn fine that Samsung has to pay Apple?

Not a problem.........

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/12/samsung_hikes_apples_prices/

Guess that will filter through to the consumer at some point. As with any corporate fine, sooner or later the consumer will be footing the bill for it.

That'll teach them. Play dirty and karma rewards

I have no problem with Apple products, I use a MacBook Air, have an Android phone, SWMBO has an iPAD (PC relegated).

Only because these are preferred products to use. I personally dont like the iphone as it is built using old technology & when the software goes wrong its so locked down that you cant easily dig into it to sort out.

One thing i found out this week is that Apple are subsidising apps that can be got for free on Android, for example- I got Angry Birds Star Wars for Android free, but if i wanted it for ios i would have to pay for it :think:

One thing i found out this week is that Apple are subsidising apps that can be got for free on Android, for example- I got Angry Birds Star Wars for Android free, but if i wanted it for ios i would have to pay for it :think:

Surely that would be Android subsidising the app, not Apple?

Or, more likely, just the App maker wanting to make back some cash from the fact Apple require you to pay to be a developer for iOS. Apple don't set the price of the apps in their store unless they make them.