Rear brakes get stuck over night

[Citigo2032]

I have had some issues with the rear brakes lately. I never use the hand brake - just put the car it in 1.st gear. Still I have had some issues with the rear breaks. They get stuck over night, and are so tight that the car lifts its rear end up when I try to back out of the garage. Then I hear a "bang" and the breaks loosen up. Still, the breaking pads might cause the rear wheels to stop turning on ice and snow - not good.

 

I talked to a technician at the dealer, and the rear breaking system is suppose to be cleaned every 30 000km. My car has ran for 81 000km now without any cleaning. So I guess we've addressed the problem.

 

Today I tried to disassamble the breaking system, but could not remove the drum (I removed the torx screw). I hit the drum and the shield behind it (where all the springs and mechanism is fasten) several tims with a rubber hammer. The drum was clearly loose becaus I could turn the hub and hold back the drum.

Is there an adjustment screw somewhere I can loosen up so the breaking pads are fully released from the drum? I just could not remove it - not more than 0.5mm or so.

 

So instead removing the drum, I used high pressure air and blew into the bolt holes. The garage was instantly filled with brown dust, so I though it migh be a god idea using a vacuum cleaner near by while blowing. That helped a lot.

 

Anyways, I slammed that hammer into every spot I could find, and soon enough a pile of dirt and breaking dust was growing on the floor. Suddenly the drum was free to rotate, tested the hand break, and the wheels released when putting the hand break back into normal. The problem is solved for now, and hopefully it will last for a while.

[Jonny118118]

And are the shoes in good condition? Not worn out, don't need replacing?

[Citigo2032]

And are the shoes in good condition? Not worn out, don't need replacing?

I didn't reached that far to see if the shoes was worn out. I did not manage to get that drum off, and there is no obvious place to kick that drum off or loosen the shoes enough to allow the drum to be removed easily. I think the dealer has to look at it. The breaks has now been running for 81 000km (approx 50 600 miles). The breaking pads in the front are still good, so are the discs, but that does not necessarily mean that the shoes and the drum is fine.

[rum4mo]

Typically, VAG rear drum brake shoes need to get "slackened off" before you can remove the drums over them. to do this, you need to shine a light through a wheel bolt hole and rotate the drum+hub until you can see the shoe adjustment wedge and then force the spring connected wedge down to allow the shoe to move back.

 

What I tend to find, as well as a lot of brake dust/rust there will be sections of the swept area of the drums that are blackened with rust - I rub that off using carbarundum paper.

 

Edit:- I would like to be able to say that I remove and clean the brakes every year, but some years I don't!

Edited 21 January, 2017 by rum4mo

[Jonny118118]

I didn't reached that far to see if the shoes was worn out. I did not manage to get that drum off, and there is no obvious place to kick that drum off or loosen the shoes enough to allow the drum to be removed easily. I think the dealer has to look at it. The breaks has now been running for 81 000km (approx 50 600 miles). The breaking pads in the front are still good, so are the discs, but that does not necessarily mean that the shoes and the drum is fine.

Ah okay, maybe worth the dealer having a look just to be sure. Sounds like they haven't been touched in awhile if your having problems getting into the drums.

[Jonny118118]

Typically, VAG rear drum brake shoes need to get "slackened off" before you can remove the drums over them. to do this, you need to shine a light through a wheel bolt hole and rotate the drum+hub until you can see the shoe adjustment wedge and then force the spring connected wedge down to allow the shoe to move back.

 

What I tend to find, as well as a lot of brake dust/rust there will be sections of the swept area of the drums that are blackened with rust - I rub that off using carbarundum paper.

Is that the self adjuster?

[rum4mo]

Is that the self adjuster?

 

Yes, but some people don't trust it to self adjust!

[Citigo2032]

I just watched a video regarding the same issue on an Octavia. Shining a light into ine hole and locate this adjustment wedge. I'll try that. Lots of tools, but lack of CitiGo-skills, but now I'm ready to end this war :-)

 

Thanks!

[nbJubilee]

My rear brake stuck today. Just had 30,000 mile service. Greased a few bits too. When the day warms up will try to remove the brake drums and take a look.

[Citigo2032]

I finally made it. I did not actually find the adjustment wedge, I think, but I managed to hear some spring noises when clawing with that screwdriver. I located the hand brake lever too, and pushed it via the hole.

The drum did not come off easy, and the "nail" with that spring on it which hold one of the shoes in position, did fall off.

 

Now I have grinded the drum with a Dremel to remove that edge which prevents the drum from being removed.

 

The shoes have approx 3mm of useful sole.

 

However, when I got that drum off, one of the pistons fell of, so now there is air in the cylinder. I will remove this air tomorrow. It's late now, and I have no one to tighten that bleeder screw for me when the air is out.

[rum4mo]

Oh bother, now I feel guilty about encouraging you to take things apart!

 

Very satisfying grinding down that ridge, though it does not solve much if you manage to get the wedge down out of the way, make sure that you rub off any areas that are black back to grey shiny metal.

 

One other thing, make sure that the cylinder/pistons are not leaking/weeping fluid as that is not good!

[Citigo2032]

I have attached pictures of the adjustment wedge (I found it), and the whole braking system.

 

I discovered the wedge when I activted the brakes without the drum. Then I did see that the wedge was on its way to fall out because the braking shoe was so far out. So I thought it was logic that this part is the adjustment wedge.

 

When I pressed this adjustment wedge upwards with a screwdriver, AND pushed the hand brake lever sideways a bit, the drum almost fell off by it self. A little fight though, but very easy to remove the drum.

 

So now I have grinded both drums, and they are very easy to remove - because I think I have to replace the shoes and all the other parts soon.

 

Vidar

[Citigo2032]

Oh bother, now I feel guilty about encouraging you to take things apart!

 

Very satisfying grinding down that ridge, though it does not solve much if you manage to get the wedge down out of the way, make sure that you rub off any areas that are black back to grey shiny metal.

 

One other thing, make sure that the cylinder/pistons are not leaking/weeping fluid as that is not good!

No worries. I managed to repair the "cup" where the nail is going throug, and fittet it easily. It works fine. I have ordered a complete set of parts, so everything except the drums will be replaced.

When the drums are off next time, I will sand blast them on the outside and give them a good protective coating that stands heat. Then uing the airbrush and paint them ruby red (Ruby red is VERY close to the original color of this car).

Edited 22 January, 2017 by Citigo2032

[rum4mo]

Having messed about with cars for over 40 years, I have just bought one of these special tools to remove/re-fit these brake shoe pull down things (squashed nail and cup) - I just have to buy more tools that is all.

 

Trying to keep these drums looking like new is a bit tricky, I used a wire brush on a drill twice and coated the drums in some grey underbody protection with rust protection below, different rust inhibitors/protectors each time, still rusty marks appear.  Maybe your plan to paint them a better colour will mask any rust marks!

[Citigo2032]

Yeah, rust is hard to fight. The problem with most coatings is that they are not actually waterproof and rubble proof. Painting with powder coating is probably the safest way to make a long term solution. I'm not gonna do that, but maybe I'll use a few layers of 2-component paint that can stand rubble for a good while - not shure it will stand heat.

One problem is that the drum will rust where you cannot apply paint - like on the inside. Rust WILL eat its way out and loosen the paint, and start its rust attack there too.

[montecarlo]

I think the main problem is either the quality or design of the brakes drums, I've had cars with drum brakes for many years and never had this problem before, my fabia has done this from when I bought it new, if I leave it parked for 2 or 3 days in bad weather the handbrake sticks on, sometimes it happens overnight if it's stormy. A good solution would be brake drum covers which would stop water entering the gap between the brake drum and backplate, I've seen stainless steel ones for sale for classic cars but I don't know if they're available for ordinary modern cars, if anyone knows of some I'd be pleased to know about them. Of course the real solution would be to fit discs all round but that would cost VW too much I suppose and the dealers would lose the income from maintaining the brake drums when they go wrong.

[Ootohere]

?

Have you seen the state discs on the rear of Fabia get into, and the front.

Cosmetic rusting in a few hours and worse over night, and scoring and wear reported at Skoda Main Dealer Services / Upselling opportunities.

 

Plenty manufacturers have Rear Drums as standard on vehicles and no sticking on parking brakes when using them when it is not Damp / Wet and then below Freezing weather.  Some do not even stick when it is wet / damp conditions that VW Group ones are highly likely to stick on.

 

Removal of Wheels and checking brakes was part of Major / 20,000 mile services.  Drums off.

Then it was dropped in the Service Schedule / Guidelines, or just by Main Dealers, but still appeared in Skoda Websites / National Pricing.

 

It then disappeared, and then reappeared.

Hit and miss if Drums or even wheels are off before the 3 years / First MOT, or ever off unless you take them or request / pay to have the drums off, 

cleaned, ie Servicing.

 

I had 4 replacement sets of discs in 6 years, 70,000 miles on a Mk2 Fabia.

Winter salted roads and always outside.

Hand brake regularly pulled on a little at the start of a journey for a few yards to clean the rust off, even after just parked and then the car washed.

Edited 23 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[montecarlo]

Yeah they aren't great, should have kept my 1980's Saab with 4 discs and a handbrake that used the calipers instead of parking brake drums, you could leave it parked for weeks in the rain and the brakes wouldn't stick on. I guess that's what they call progress!

[Emil]

They had asbestos back in 80's. Maybe it didn't stick on. I don't miss that stuff personally. 

[DinsdalePiranha]

Mine do that too, though not as bad as that. It feels like the brakes are releasing, but it is only very brief. Not a problem at all.