nta16

Martin it could all be a bit of miscommunication or misunderstanding between yourselves, or not, either way you need to be fair and perhaps firm. The vehicle was sold to you as "exceptional condition" (but this is difficult to prove unless it is recorded somewhere) and if you paid top money for it you expected it to be in better than average condition allowing for it's age and mileage. I would point out to you that the car is 6 years old with only 20k-miles which is less than an average of 3,500 miles per year, unless the recorded mileage each year shows different, that sort of mileage might suggest lots of short journeys so lots of gear changes perhaps, unless there is evidence otherwise. You said you've been doing mainly longer journeys including dual-carriageways and motorways and avoiding short journeys so you would do far less gear changes so the problem is less likely from your ownership and more likely from previous ownership. Your ownership mileage over three weeks of 700 miles is nearly four times the previous ownership average, unless you're often going up steep hills, towing, dragging the clutch or think the clutch pedal is a footrest how have you worn the clutch in such a short time. Some people do though - I almost put this story before, we saw an old lady in a hire/loan car, that was a brand new registration that week, turn up a road with a steep hill and she was slipping the clutch and revving the rocks off the new car. I wonder if all these computers in the car now record that somehow. If dual-mass flywheel is a known problem to the make and model then a dealer should know about it and check for it if possible before selling the car as "exceptional condition" and if they did, or didn't know this, it is why there are warranties, which you have been given (bought?), they will probably try to get their money back from a warranty too if they took one out themselves or sold one to you. They may argue that by "exceptional condition" they only meant cosmetically but if they didn't include that word (term/condition) then it has a wider interpretation that I'd guess an average car buyer would take as meaning the whole car. You need to research dual-mass flywheel is is a common problem and what else needs replacing with it at the same time, your acquaintance suggests the clutch too, if Skoda (UK or franchise dealer) also suggest this then you should also check that's what your dealer is going to do as part of the warranty work. If dual-mass flywheel is a part that has failed within itself then again a dealer should know about this but not an average customer, that's again why they might have bought and/or sold a warranty on the vehicle. Make sure they understand they are not to do any chargeable work without getting conformation from you. Personally on dropping the car off I'd want to know what time I should ring them when they will be looking at what is wrong BEFORE they carry out any rectification work, and probably ring before that anyway. Garages can send videos nowadays of them looking at the car before starting work on it. Perhaps they're just being cautious by saying if it's driver error, or you got an old-style slippery motor-trade 'person' in which case he'd need to explain exactly what you as a driver could have done as driver neglect or abuse to the car and how it is proven that you done this and not previous owners or the garage itself. Just displaying a burnt out clutch on a garage floor means very little unless they happen to have some sort of expert forensic lab and experts to call on. (See attached). See how it goes tomorrow, things might not be as bad with the garage as you think, but just in case record everything and do nothing wrong yourself, two ears one mouth, use that ratio. Remain calm and polite, things could turn out well so be prepare but don't cross any bridges unless you come to them, allow yourself plenty of time to think, don't act in haste, don't rush to fill breaks in conversation allow time for explanations. https://techassist.valeoservice.systems/sites/default/files/2020-04/TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf Good luck. TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf

If it's that you want to get it done under warranty as what's caused it. Whole point of the dealer and you having a warranty on the car. You could do a search here to see if it's a known fault, the more information you have the better for approaching the dealer on the subject. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Hey, I'm very often on the opposite side with owning an old British car, and having had others too, and dealing with the English motor trade (like all of us). I think something is a total disaster just because another ****-poor modern made part has failed or more repercussion from ****-poor work and attitudes from some in the motor trade and someone has to remind me it's not the end of the world, even though I already know it myself I often need reminding. I had a very bad and very expensive, in monetary and emotional terms, experience with a car and people associated with it, far worse than usual and the final dragged out outcome was I learnt to value that car and my current car at zero, that way I could cut my losses and unless I had to pay someone to take it away I never needed to spend (or waste) any more money on it unless I wanted to. I can't say I'm entirely successful with my present car but there's far less pressure on me about it's ownership.

Sorry to hear that, something like that will have a long lasting effect. There's nothing wrong with looking after things as long as it doesn't go too far otherwise you're worrying too much about things in life that are relatively unimportant really, and that's any lump of metal, at any monetary value. I was going to put a rant about modern cars with oversized wheels and tyres that are often far too low profile for their need and the state of the roads but instead I'll put it's not all your wife's fault but I bet she cares a lot less about scuffing the wheels than you and possibly better for it (unless the damage is a lot more than wheel scuffs). I bought my car as the paintwork on it wasn't particular good and the colour was boring so I wouldn't worry if I got the odd dink as my previous version had particularly good paintwork being a new bodyshell but I found I was beginning to get a bit over fussy and worried about where I parked it. The best thing I done was when I swapped the shiny new bumpers to a set of original bumpers of a different sort I didn't have them re-chromed (apart from the high cost at the time, much higher cost now) I left them dull and with a dink in one of the overriders. But I still worried about the paintwork which one of the reasons I got my present car and liked plastic cars as you can deal with scratches at your leisure. My neighbour had two new RS4 estates in a row, after an incident he started to worry too much about the second one so I suggested as he used it so little, and never in the way it was designed, and couldn't get all his fishing gear in, which was his real interest, that he change it for another vehicle, merely affirming what he was thinking. He did and said he felt so much better after it went. He got a more suitable vehicle but still uses that very little but at least he can get his all fishing gear in. His place and vehicle are kept very smart, he washes the vehicles himself even though he had vouchers for free dealer valeting.

Possibly good news then as there were already some imperfections (just using that word might suggest you have higher cosmetic standards than me) and if their bodyshop does the work it'll possibly/probably be they do the whole bumper. If it was me I'd have gone to look at it and if it was just a small paint scape (on a plastic part that won't rust) I'd have worked out the cost of a chipsaway (knowing the garage pay less for the same work from them) and asked for that retail cost as money off or asked for some added extras of similar (but higher) value knowing that dealers have high profit margins on some extras. All non-rusting damage can wait until you sell the car as often you pick up other dinks and it's more effective to do all at once usually. My wife got a dent in her car once and I said to leave it as she had to use public car parks at work, where this dent came from. 18 months later whilst she was having service work done the dealership offered her a good price to carry out the repair (£500 IIRC, it was on a large rear steel panel), they must have been short of work in their bodyshop. I said it was a good price as long as the work was done properly but I bet the panel would have another dink in it within a week of the repair. The day she collected the car in the morning she got a small dink in the panel that afternoon. I had to laugh (out of sight).

You'll learn that many things in life are relatively very unimportant, certainly lumps of metal, and that a very few things are very important so you needn't worry much about anything but these. A big problem today can be often be forgotten tomorrow. I'm 61 btw but feel about 80 some days, but then others I feel 59.

Often things seem better after sleeping on it, It might not be serious and the dealer might want to do the right thing if its required. Being prepared is good but you don't need to cross the bridge until you get to it and you might not get to it. Let us know how you get on as it all adds to the collective knowledge (not that I'd remember, I'd be something of an expert if I could remember the solutions to all the car problems I've had.

Yes see your acquaintance as it will give you peace of mind and if required power/knowledge to present to the dealer if they get wriggly. It might be as your acquaintance fears or something simple. Obviously don't drive it unless you have to and if it's not pushing the relationship too far get if your acquaintance can come over to you all the better. Your typing faster than me, I'm old.

ETA: another follow up post, to, er, follow up. Martin as long as you don't have to pay this acquaintance (especially at Sunday rates!) but specialists sometimes jump to the sexy exotic without first going through the boring and unsexy basics, a good specialist or mechanic or anyone will always start with the boring, unsexy basics as you often can't properly preceded without doing so. And bear in mind your car is under warranty so you don't want anyone touching it other than driver's maintenance. The sound not remaining in the same place might (or might not) suggest that it's from a fixed location and possibly from within a bigger area such as inside the engine, just not running right. You've blown my two original (unoriginal) thoughts of car battery low, and sensors and filters getting clogged up by short journeys only. The following video makes good points, for you that fact that you lost power might suggest any number of faults the computers might thought you had at that time so it could throw in a fault too. This vid makes some good point, not all apply now but can in future. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL9wYgWLlI

Now you say! I was going to put something and it might (or might not be) even more relevant now, I'll await your answers to previous question.

Just to remind I don't have mechanical aptitude. I thought I could here something in the first video but not really in the others. When you say the noise is shifting around do you mean within the engine bay or car? Sounds are devils to track sometimes, you're probably too young to remember this advert but it does actually cover a point. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmf0YjZXqo Sometimes you have to remove everything from the car (boot, storage areas, glovebox, umbrella from under seat storage, etc.). My wife use a metal water bottle that sometimes gets forgotten and clangs on the passenger seat runner rail of my car and the note is different depending on how full the bottle is, caught me out twice wondering what the noise was. Some of these questions are also to lead on to something else You've checked the obvious stuff like the engine is full of oil and water, nothing loose, the engine was fully warmed? What colour is the engine oil, a drip off the dipstick to a piece of white paper? Have you been doing a lot of short journeys, no long journey? How much fuel is normally in the tank? When was it last serviced?

Martin, what engine have you got (more detail in your logo thingy would save asking)? ETA: I've just seen it's a TDI, thank gawd for that, be rough for a petrol. Have look in the engine bay for anything obvious like (only as an example, the bonnet prop) loose, the clutch (taking up drive) may or may not have significance other than causing more vibration. Then have someone else start the engine whilst you look and listen - take car with a running engine, don't put or drop anything that could cause damage to it and/or the car. Why did you or the car stall? Have you had any other things you noticed whilst driving the car? Can you do a video of the car start sound. Too many items on your keyring jangling to hear much on the second video. You really need some one holding the microphone (phone) steady as you're possibly getting extraneous sounds from that being moved. That's enough for a start with.

@AGFalco I suggested the run not just as a charge of the battery, depending on what electrics are running at the time, but more as establishing the idea that the whole car needs more than just very short stop start journeys. How long the battery needs to be recharged can depend on so many factors including the charger being used and of course you can cook a battery, my elderly neighbour done so decades back which is why I took over his battery maintenance, visual checks just to reassure him, and he bought me a battery charger the same as the one he had as a "thank you" present for me, instead of the usual talc he sometimes insisted I took, I must have stank! I thought I'd never use it and very rarely have on our cars but it's been round a few neighbours over the decades. If I put my other 20+ year old 4-stage charger on a neighbours battery I only check it every so often and as it only has a yellow 'I'm working' or green 'I've done it' lights on it it could go from yellow to green the very second I turn my back on it from checking it so as I leave it for possibly the next 10 hours I could be just contributing to Scottish Power's profits for no good reason but there's more to life than watch battery charger LEDs. These cars must be great news for the battery manufacturers, many car purchasers won't be aware of the stop/start system being so wearing on the battery and intrusive to other systems on the car, I wasn't and I've always stressed the importance of a good car battery in good condition. Last night the chap at our 'local' curry house was going out doing local deliveries in a diesel that had the DPF warning light on and he didn't know the significance of it, reminded me of when they promoted fags as being good for you.

@BigEjit Yes I was mightily impress with the bike's brakes especially considering how very long and very far they were applied, not so much with the rider taking the middle of the road the whole time though. As someone that was a cyclist, and for 6 years was a full-time without a car, cycling to work, shopping, visiting, leisure rides (no holidays then) I do see the cyclists side even the fair weather, lycra clad bolchy old boys. I'll try again with Varta, three times transferred to an extension with an answerphone, I could have left a message but didn't. I have done some research on EFB/AGM batteries, including the links AGFalco put up. I also rang Tayna and the chap there said it was fine for me to charge the new battery up before fitting and the 12.4v label on it was indeed voltage it could sent out at and fitted to the car with. I was reading all about 'stock rotation' as I'll call it and when charging in storage might be required, a complicated coding system on one manufacturer's batteries that I read. I think compared to many I'm a modest user of battery power having go to used to unreliable vehicles but I can't stop these modern cars swallowing it away from me, I think the days of the factory fitted battery lasting 8, 10, 12 or 15(?) years might be over.

@rgcaston a bit of mussing going on whilst awaiting your report back. 30hrs is a reasonable time (if the battery was off the car) but depending on the charger and state of battery charge it could take even longer but you can always try again if you want to add back more. 30-mile drive on dual carriageway again is reasonable but hardly long distance and unless it was all in third gear not much of a blow out run. But these where just easy and relatively inexpensive things to try, if the battery isn't already too far gone for them to help. The car will start and probably continue to run but you may have more (and possibly additional) errors messages - or if you drive reasonable distances and conserve your electrical usage (never a bad idea) perhaps your error message might even go away with the battery and computers having replenished themselves, sometimes it takes computers a while to cotton on, as sometimes their programs aren't as smart as the programmers make out. You're showing off with your Moggy starting handle wots up with taking the handbrake off on a slope and bump starting, sometimes backwards. Let us know if you don't make it to the next service, I hope you do, cheers.

I'd expect anything from 12.6v to 12.9v depending on the testing equipment used, the weather, how long my left trouser leg is. I don't hold too much trust for DIY electronic test equipment or garage stuff that's been used and abused. My not rubbish but not good modern digital multimeter always seems to give optimistic readings but I always allow time for the battery to settle back down, and if on the car put the headlights on for a short while, before taking a reading. I've had dealership ticksheets with spare tyre shown at full tread depth when there was never a spare, another time the tyres on the car had grown a millimetre of tread each from the previous visit and I'd guess other stuff I can't remember. The AGM batteries could go on a 1973* car like mine, if they do one small enough, with only an alternator to decide on the charge rate . * A matter of months before the model was still on a dynamo, basically a late 50s car still on sale in the 70s, British innovation, or I also had 15 years back a 1980s Capri, a 1960s car still sold in the 80s, American innovation, no wonder Japan and now China are taking over, ya gotta laff.

Yes the UK ain't the USA, so it's swings and roundabouts for car manufacturers with making good the faults they pretend not to know about. I wasn't thinking of oil change to stop or prevent any design or build quality faults just as good running practice, sometimes it can help a little too with some problems but not miracles. So this DSG was it designed by the high quality German engineers then, I remember Audis and others with it a while back. I've learnt not to debate 'oil beliefs' but I will say with ethanol, and bear in mind I've been running over-priced and over-valued old cars called "classics" for over 30 years, that this is the same as when unleaded petrol came in, I was told it'd ruin my engine, and my teeth and steal looks. The engines were fine, and I still have my teeth and looks.

@e-Roottoot does DQ200 have a 100,000 miles / ten years warranty in the UK?

At that sort of mileage you definitely want to keep on top of the car battery unless you like looking up error codes. If you're only going to keep it 5 years you could worry about little else (or risk it) and do the minimum but if you want to go to 10 years I'd look at doing more of what I've put before. Better quality oils cost not a lot more, 'Long Life' is just another marketing term I'd ask an oil blender what they'd suggest, I use Millers and you can actually talk to them or email them and get an answer, a range of oils could do the job from each blender. A car sitting can pick up muck, I can guarantee you of that from nearly 40 years experience, less so if you're lucky enough to have a garage for it and less so if also covered or Carcoon'd/filtered so don't neglect regular air filter changes for the engine, cabin too if you care about the occupants. If at 5 years later you decide to go for 10 years ownership as the car will be 9(?) years old personally I'd think about that DSG oil change or see what Skoda/VAG say about it then. I've no idea what these "inspection" services are but ours has a file of tickbox bits of paper from the services done and contain "errors" suggesting the boxes were ticked distance from any work that was done, on a car I'm buying I'd at least expect an engine oil and filter change (despite this being one of the least important components on the car). Do yourself a big favour and actually read and refer to the 'Operators Manual' as it can save you a lot of time and hassle. And there are these kooky videos, simple stuff but handy and one saved me a lot of hassle with information that 'the internet' search had my head spinning and it's not in the 'Operator's Manual' (I won't say what it was though) and no it's not me. - Good luck, let us know how you get on.

No. There's been ****-poor rubbish rubber in fuel hose (and classic car parts) for at least 15 years in my own personal experience, I've often wondered how long before it'd also affected modern car parts or even dealers parts, counterfeit dealer parts have happened before. I'm a bit more surprised it's happened to a factory built car - although I did have it happen to me 20+ years ago but that was on a British/English made car and they'd used the wrong hose from their supplier without checking.

I was going to delete this after TerFar's post but seeing e-Roottoot's latest post I've revived it. If there are 40,000 and 80,000 miles oil change intervals are there also time interval alternatives too? ETA: From the chart above it will be very interesting to see if that "No service interval" changes in the future. As I put changing the oil gives the chance to check the oil that comes out, if only visually and rubbing it between (gloved) fingers to to tell you what condition its in and possibly tell you how things might be going with the box especially if you analyse the oil for what's in it (not expensive nowadays and can be done from home). I've no idea how easy or difficult it is to change the oil(s) on these DSG but if it could be done I'd do it. ETA: But others may think I'm wasting my time and that's fine as they may be correct and different people have different views. Seen this 'sealed for life', doesn't need changing gearbox oil stuff before, in fact the Ford (type 9) gearbox in my car was without drain plug but it's gear changing can be improved (but not speeded up) by changing the oil and to better oil. That gearbox could be 37 years old for all I know and I've no evidence it's ever been reconditioned in that time. The gearbox and rear axle on Midget never had recommended oil changes but both benefit from occasional oil changes, yet the similar gearbox on the MGB had 24-months or 24,000 miles whichever was sooner (soonest?). Gearboxes, same as engines, have lots more bits added to them now but they still basically bits of metal tuning in a bit of oil, cars are very ancient technologies with lots of electric, electronic, computers and programs on them to squeeze out the last drop of possible efficiency from their ancientness. In ancient times if you had something like an old Ford you could just run it and never do more than add petrol and oil as required and just see how long it'd last with that neglect and it'd often be a very long time but the computers on modern cars wouldn't be happy with their readings doing that now, plus you'd probably never pass the MoT now, unless it's done over the phone.

Hi @BasilHume just some general comments about running any car at such low mileage (apart from the huge relative costs per mile) you may already be aware of them but in case not. These mostly relate to any car. I'm not trying to dishearten you just make you aware - "head over heart". At 20,000 miles it needs whatever service is required for a 4(?) year old model and I'd suggest that's more that two "inspection" services (whatever they are?) and a change of brake fluid is a minimum, brakes are always your number one priority (not the engine or DSG box). I would be checking the tyres (they are a very important part of braking) and changing engine oil & filter and air filter too for the engine, don't know about the spark plugs (but plugs do age and can under perform if left long enough or they have faults or damage). As I'm into "classic cars" (over-priced and over-valued old cars in reality) I know of many cars that do very low annual mileage, some are really more static lumps of metal, and low mileage causes many issues more so in many areas than high mileage. The servicing and maintenance requirements proportionately with be greater not less because of the low mileage particularly if the low mileage is made up of lots of very short journeys as this will be very wearing on the engine, starter system and battery, wearing on clutch and gears, possibly brakes. Tyres, which effect the braking, steering, suspension, road holding, handling comfort and noise can go hard through lack of use and age so need changing regardless of tread depth left on them. I've just change my set of four on my 'classic' car after about 6 years and 20,000 miles and I should have changed them at least a year earlier normally, loads of tread left on them but they were hard and cracked and horrible to drive on, mind my car sits outside 365/6 days a year. The fluids like engine oil and filter will need changing at least once a year as short trips don't allow the oil to fully warm and it gets contaminated and you want good quality oil as it working under more not less arduous conditions to protect your engine. The coolant (antifreeze) also wants to be changed at the time interval, normally it's checked for its antifreeze but this doesn't cover it's its other additive lubricant properties and as with the engine oil changing it will also remove containments in it which will help to keep things a bit cleaner internally and stop the debris causing additional wear. The transmission oil needs to be changed at the time intervals as a minimum, I'd do it more often than that as again the oil does lose it's efficiency over time and use and again you will be remove contaminants and you can check for what debris comes out (even have it analysed for what's in it for wear or issue if you want). I've already put about sparkplugs but other items can deteriorate with age regardless of use, in fact the lack of use can cause accelerated deterioration. The car battery will need maintaining (changing) otherwise it could cause all sorts of issues and on modern cars cause the computers and their programs to get very upset and throw wobbles. You would also included checking the batteries in both keyfobs (use keyfobs alternately if you can that way you know where they are and that they work) and synchronising them with the car at car or keyfob battery changes or disconnections. If the car is to be not used for many weeks or months on end then you'd want to research what is done for storage - that's another ball game. Sorry if I banged your head but at least I didn't kick your heart. A photo of your car. -

Fair enough I should have chosen my words more carefully, I was being flippant there. I expect there's some program to compensate for such anyway otherwise if I'd have been using the car on Sunday following the cyclist down a very long very steep hill with the brakes smelling from the effort of holding the weight of the car back from running over him as he held the centre of the narrow one lane road all the way to the bottom. What I wanted to know was what his brakes were but they where only taking his weight and the bike's due to my efforts and those of the other two cars. Also AGM batteries can go on conventional cars without stop/start technology so the alternator would be charging as normal. But what words should I use to get the point over - fully charged to it's capacity of charge, fully charged doesn't have to mean 100%, then 100% of what, and what would be 100%, from factory at factory tolerance, as new, off of storage shelf and how long on the shelf. I would email Bosch but last time I tried I went through three levels of return email checks to get no further, bit like the old flicking the phone switch off just as you get through to someone on the telephone bureau. Perhaps I should try ringing Varta as they make the battery, some places do have people that reply to phone calls. I did notice on the battery a small image with 12.4v and a tick so I could pin down what that actually means too. I'll report back if I get any firm answers.

@gcasey that's for your post with feedback. I've no idea of the work involved but with labour costs it's a good job it's under warranty regardless. You could suggest to them it might save them time money and hassle to replace the existing battery with a new one that is the equivalent in type and quality and have it coded all under warranty to save you possibly returning with more warranty work error codes be worthwhile to them and you. Let us know how you get on.

Good news for my mate who I gave the factory fitted Moll EFB battery to for any shed or spare battery needs he might have. I took the Moll battery off the car to charge it and Sod's Law an hour later the new Bosch (Vatra) AGM battery was delivered. I don't think it took too long for the Moll battery to fully recharge even with the maintenance charger, done by next day IIRC, and the charge held for at least a couple of weeks before I took it over to my mate's so I think I panicked by getting its replacement. I also topped up the new Bosch battery with it and the two bits of charging have merged in my mind now. 1957 hey, mines mainly 50s and 60s technology (despite being a 1973 model) with just a little 21st century. My Spridget sits outside 365/6, is used in winter though sometimes left for 2 or 3 weeks now, no isolation switch but I don't think I ever charged my previous battery more than twice, first time just a test as I had the charger out and was done within minutes and second time I can't remember why but I decided to replace the battery after this as I didn't know its age and I can't stand a car that won't start for whatever reason and I'm too old and fat to be pushing lumps of metal around now. If you get the battery fully recharged I wouldn't be surprised if not only you lose the warnings but also it seems to run better, especially if you also give it an Italian tune-up run just to ensure the battery is topped off too. All the basics that apply to the Moggy apply to the Fabia, except the Minor doesn't have banks of interfering computers with mixed up programs to battle against. I'd no idea how invasive this stop/start BCM is. I changed the transmission oil on my wife's Fabia and she said it made a noticeable improvement on the feel of the gear shifting, I thought it did too but I don't drive it enough to really know. I've got new coolant to put in to too but have yet to get a roundtuit. Let us know how you get on and how long it takes to fully recharge the battery if you can.