Forced off the road

['daiking']

Unfortunately I think its a case that the good times are over and the incumbent government are going to struggle to resolve this.

Although having chatted to people who were young in the 60s and 70s, the sorts of things they did to keep a car/bike on the road, some youngsters today are rather privileged.

[Octygone]

i disagree with this, all the arguements about the frozen rate of tax on fuel is crap, yes the rate of tax may be the same percentage wise but the higher the cost the more the government make on tax revenues so they CAN reduce the tax rate while still raking in the same amount of money allowing us a little breathing space on bills. will they do that? hahahaha i doubt it.

The only tax element to have gone up is the Vat and I reckon that they now collect about 4p a litre more than a year ago so that could in theory be dropped .....but any more and it would have to be put on to something else.

All I can suggest is drive for economy and keep the car maintained ....tyres pumped up (even a bit higher than normal will help as well) .

I

Those electric cars for short journeys are starting to make sense

[TomH]

The government can't afford to reduce the tax on fuel - it is the only thing balancing the books and keeping them afloat at the moment. They've already been warned by the EU about the large budget deficit, and after the 10p tax thing, and the probably u-turn on the road tax they won't reduce fuel duty.

Personally I'm ok at the moment, and wouldn't mind maying more for fuel if the roads are emptier!

[sharkrider]

Not what people want to hear, but at the end of the day the rising cost of fuel is just the free market in a limited commodity having its effect. There's lots of people round the world who want the oil that is now being pumped, and if we want our share we're just going to have to pay more for it.

Government could reduce taxes on fuel (note that the rate they're levied at has been set by many governments through the years, not just the current one) but we'd all just have to pay more taxes in some other way.

The common sense approach is to change our lifestyle to reflect the new reality, ie by driving less and using the car more efficiently. But people don't like to hear about using common sense - they just want to be able to go on living their lives in the same old way, even though things have fundamentally changed.

things arn't that simple.. I am a driving instructor, so how can I use my car in a different way? how can i drive less? simply impossible. what about self-employed truck drivers, taxi drivers, couriers ect ect ...we CAN'T use our cars less...

and the goverment could help... its made so much money on vat on oil since the prices have been rocketing, that anylists state the could cut fuel duty by 9p per litre and NOT loose any money..... (and thats only going on the prices since april!)

one of my pupils is an Indian chap, and he says the indian goverment subsides fuel prices to help people..... hhhmmmmm

[Decron]

What fuel strike?

I am in Guernsey where petrol is still under a £1 per litre - spend £30 in the local supermarket and they given you a voucher for 10p off per litre - so there's your answer - move to the channel islands!* Cost under £50 to fill an Octy vrs petrol up from empty.

*Might not be the best advice either given the average open market property is £3.5 million :(

But seriously, I think the UK has a lot to be learned from Guernsey - which is not classed as being under the EU. There are only 98 people currently unemployed on the island, sin tax (beer, fags etc) is massively cheaper and everything in the shops is duty free - money is gained from income tax only - which has a flat rate of 11% (I think, need to look this one up to be sure)

Yeah but when your there there is nowhere to go!

[Decron]

the indian goverment subsides fuel prices to help people..... hhhmmmmm

Which increases demand and puts the prices up in the rest of the world and reduces incentives to use/develope green options.

There is no easy answer to this. No matter what you do it will get to someone

Retest every 5 years

Cars over 5 years old need a special license

Raise driving age to 21

Bite the bullet now and in ten years it sorts itself out.

['daiking']

things arn't that simple.. I am a driving instructor, so how can I use my car in a different way? how can i drive less? simply impossible. what about self-employed truck drivers, taxi drivers, couriers ect ect ...we CAN'T use our cars less...

and the goverment could help... its made so much money on vat on oil since the prices have been rocketing, that anylists state the could cut fuel duty by 9p per litre and NOT loose any money..... (and thats only going on the prices since april!)

one of my pupils is an Indian chap, and he says the indian goverment subsides fuel prices to help people..... hhhmmmmm

In a world where fuel is expensive, fewer people will want/need to drive. Fewer drivers means fewing people learning to drive.

Ultimately, are you good enough to beat the competition, uniquely placed to survive (i.e. no competition) or do you have a Plan B?

[Dodgy]

We've become a nation that is car dependent. That's primarily the reason why small outlying villages no longer have shops, everyone buggered off to the nearby supermarkets when they expanded in the early 80s, even if that was a journey of 15 or 20 miles. Surprise surprise, that caused local shops to close and public transport to become unviable (nobody using it).

People also started commuting further and further to work.

In real terms, fuel is actually pretty cheap, but we've become used to being able to drive long distances for just a couple of quid. The cost to the environment (no, I'm not talking about global warming) has always been greater than the cost of the fuel.

Put it this way, even with fuel costing what it does today, I can (and will) be driving to Formby today, a distance of 21 miles each way. It's going to cost me in the region of £5 for the return journey. I honestly don't think that's expensive at all.

I do understand that the threshold for being able to run a car is rising (VED, fuel etc), and that's going to hit some more than others, but that's a fact of life (shame though it is).

And by the way, when I was at College (couldn't get to Uni - too thick) in the early 80s, none of my fellow students had a car. And actually, in my first few years in the RAF, I was one of only about 3 blokes (out of 50 or so) that had a car.

Attitudes are already changing (evidence of unnecessary car journeys being stopped - fuel sales down 20%). Let's hope that this government can make public transport viable again before the paint dries on this corner we've all painted ourselves into.

Cheers,

Dave.

[Tailhappy]

Car ownership not that long ago used to be a luxury few could afford. I realised the other day that it may well soon become a luxury again. I feel that it is abuse of the car that has led to this - as with all things abused, the privalige is eventually taken away from us.

The motor car is a wonderful thing - it gives us freedom to travel to places that could not be reached on foot in comfort and in our own time - like a first class train that goes wherever you like, when you like, at a whim. BUT it has been abused for too long now, and the current rate of (ab)use cannot continue unchecked - especially with the UK population set to double by 2030.

The abuse of the car set in around 20 years ago, and at the time no-one seemed to care - despite the warnings. Runs to the newsagent to get the paper, 300 yard school runs with massive congestion at the school gates, stupidly long daily commutes including daily motorway gridlock, cars idling in winter to warm the car up for the user, drives to work that take more time than walking/cycling.

Many see the drive to work as the main use of the car, but if a savvy employer were to do a circuit in a minibus and pick up as many employees as possible it would save a huge amount of congestion if it were implimented nationwide.

We are at a point of equilibrium now, and I don't think that we will see 'cheap' motoring for a long while - if ever again.

Ian

['daiking']

The truth...

At last, somebody gets it.

There was a thread recently that included a post from KenONeill (I think) that said we would go back to living in the medieval ages with the loss of oil/cheap energy. I tried to look for it last night but failed miserably

I don't think it was meant as a prediction more a worst case possibility but that possibility will become more and more credible unless we address the imbalances in our consumption supply/demands.

[timbabwey]

Where I will public transport doesn't exist. We have maybe 1 bus every 4 years or so and it never goes anywhere you want it to and will always get you there late.

Public transport is also a rip off. For instance my g/f lives 30 mins Drive.... thats about 10 quid return in petrol...

Train however... inconvenient.... as u have to changew once.... costs 20 quid return and takes two hours and ur not even at her front door yet....

public transport is not worth it and i say lift share!!!!

(: i still drive tho, its funnnn!

[PD75]

Living on the side of a mountain with a daily commute of 220km Public transport is not an option for me. I have the oft maligned 70 BHP 1.4tdi which I bought for economy new last August. With 33,000km now on it and an extra bit of effort over the last six weeks or so, I have increased my mpg considerably. The last 3 tanks full have yielded just over 70 MPG. from a previous average of 56 mpg. It currently costs less per mile @ E1.39 / litre than when I wasn't being so careful and paying E1.10 / litre. All calculations have been made on the brim to brim method. Yes it is a bit boring and it now takes me an extra 30 - 40 mins. a day for my commute, but at least I'm going someway to sticking the finger up at the oil companies, tax office and investors that are all rubbing their hands with glee.

As an aside, I know the Oxford area well having lived in Harwell and Wantage. Public transport there has always been poor and expensive, even in the 80’s I had to buy a car to get to work as there was no bus to suit my hours of employment.

The bones of my ars* are well worn through being on them to pay the bills in the past – some of it not too distant! Beans on toast and curried meatballs and rice will help with the food bill.

[sharkrider]

In a world where fuel is expensive, fewer people will want/need to drive. Fewer drivers means fewing people learning to drive.

Ultimately, are you good enough to beat the competition, uniquely placed to survive (i.e. no competition) or do you have a Plan B?

I can't survive now :(

I do however have a plan B already passed two exams, and got my final interview next week... I'm going over to the dark side and becomming a civil servant.... hopefully be working for the goverment by the end of next month, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em eh?

if I'm doing 100 miles a week instead of 900 miles a week, the cost rises wont seem half as bad (well ten times as bad!) as they do now.....

but that is a conclusion, that its expensive enough to force us off the road, so if thats what people want, well, thats what they're getting!

[Duggie]

Well guys, it's come to this, not only have the fuel costs forced me off the road, they have now forced the sale of my Scalextric track I had when i was a little younger, brought me so much fun but i need the money here's a link:Scalextric Sport Track JOB LOT - Massive Track! on eBay, also Scalextric Sports, Track, Scalextric Slot Car, Toys Games (end time 21-Jun-08 00:59:50 BST)

Thanks for all of your comments, it's just the fact that I have grown up with cars and don't see them as a luxury. I mean I take care of the fabia, wash it every week, keep the oil topped up etc but do just expect to be able to drive it whenever without having to pay more. I pay my road tax, I pay the fuel costs (when they can be afforded) and I bought my car. What is the government trying to say? I've worked hard to be able to have a car and drive it, surely what the government should be encouraging, hard working teenagers. Though now they want to take it away from me... what are they saying? i shouldn't have worked hard and just taken drugs? No wonder crime is on the up... i know tjis is a drastic view, but this is MY view.

I view it as my human right to drive a car (I know a few of you will object but it's just how i have been brought up) and the rises have taken that away from me... what's next? Anyone want a kidney? only £20,000.

-Duggie... relying on pedal power.

[Duggie]

Oh, and as for the moped idea... I quite like where my limbs are at the moment and value my life....

[Adam K]

i am in a good position where the vast majority of my fuel is payed for by work, and i don't get taxed on it either as work foot the bill for that too.

what is incredibly annoying is that people seem to have slowed down on the motorways but they still seem to be sitting in the fast lane at 65-70mph leaving all us people who don't care about the cost of fuel to get frustrated that we can't get past at the speeds we want to do.

i would rather fuel went up even more and it priced some people off the road, then i wouldn't end up sat in traffic jams in london for the vast majority of my morning/evening.

admittedly if i had to pay for all my fuel myself i recon i'd have a different opinion, but currently i'm alright jack!

['daiking']

I can't survive now :(

I do however have a plan B already passed two exams, and got my final interview next week... I'm going over to the dark side and becomming a civil servant.... hopefully be working for the goverment by the end of next month, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em eh?

if I'm doing 100 miles a week instead of 900 miles a week, the cost rises wont seem half as bad (well ten times as bad!) as they do now.....

but that is a conclusion, that its expensive enough to force us off the road, so if thats what people want, well, thats what they're getting!

I hope it works out

Sadly there'll be good driving instructors/hauliers/yak herders who'll be oblivious to it until the day they have to sell their car/lorry/tools. Never saw it coming they'll say.

[sms]

yeah hope it works out, things should get a bit cheaper at the end of the summer and even more when all these city lot who are speculating on the price of crude f--- up and loose everything.

[dxg]

I just slipstream trucks. Got another just below 80mpg (indicated) on the way home today. It takes *ages* though, and is so dull. Still seem to put £40+ in it every Friday...

[GeordieJohn]

SHOCKING last Aug i was paying 98.1 in shell, now 113.9!!! 47 quid for a full tank! Hate filling up! but ive got a full time job so am fine, normally use car to and from work thats all but may go out places during week. Cruizing has stopped, me and 4 other mates all took our cars out lol!!! not my plannet so i dont care about global warming. But i new fuel would run out and prices would go up but, NOT IN THE FIRST YEAR OF ME DRIVING! < lol tempted to not use my car and use the smelly public transport and get packed into a carrage like cattle!

['daiking']

I view it as my human right to drive a car (I know a few of you will object but it's just how i have been brought up) and the rises have taken that away from me... what's next? Anyone want a kidney? only £20,000.

-Duggie... relying on pedal power.

[bobh]

60%tax on fuel, plus vat on top. We're being taxed on the tax we 've already paid !!!

Where does all the money go?

I rode a pushbike to work once it nearly killed me took me nearly 2 hours, i can walk it in 45 min's

[Tailhappy]

"I rode a pushbike to work once it nearly killed me"

Yes, the first time I rode to work it nearly killed me too. That told me that I was not as fit as I thought I was:O. Next day I rode again (forced myself), and it was a little easier. After a week it was almost easy and now after 6 years I don't even think about it.

What really made me enthusiastic to ride is knowing that as soon as I got to work I was earning money, NOT working for free to pay back the money I had just paid on fuel to get to work. After a couple of months I found I could treat the family out for a meal as I had more money than I had before and it great to breeze past all the cars during the Friday afternoon gridlock:). Fresh air, free, good for you and a pay rise (as you are not paying to get to work) makes cycling a solid and worthwhile option for those who are able.

Much as though I love driving and cars, I now ensure that I use them for strictly leisure now - holidays, rides out and the like.

Ian

[Chrispy]

I'd love to cycle to work but it's 32 miles up the A1 and down the A64. Takes 40 mins in the car but public transport would involve 2x trains and a bus taking about 2 hours overall.

Add over 2 extra hours onto your day just for travelling to and from work and it would mean I'd be out of the house for 12 hours each day. No time to go to the gym after work, no time to cook any healthy meals. I might as well get a sleeping bag and stay in the office, only coming home at weekends.

What gets me though is the lack of homeworking in this country. We were chatting to a Swedish chap and he said they have hardly any traffic problems because everyone works from home if they can. No rush hour, no gridlock, nothing.

In this county your employers have to health and safety inspect your home before you're allowed to work from it in case you impale yourself on a kitchen knife or fall down the stairs or something. Puts them off doing it hence they don't bother.

I'm still expected to do on call from home though.....interesting.

We have the technology - broadband, laptops, mobile phones, video conferencing/ web chat etc.....it's not quite the same as being face to face but that may be a luxury we can no longer afford. :confused:

[Dodgy]

Chrispy,

I work from home roughly 3 days a week, sometimes 5. I'm completely convinced that it's part of the answer to all this. If those whose job is compatible with home working were given the option, it would cancel out traffic problems overnight, well at least the rush hours anyway.

There is still a perception amongst management that home-workers are swinging the lead (not in our company), they have to get over that and realise work is an activity, not a location.

Dave.