Octavia II Poor Sounding Stereo Fix

[bogey555]

Dynaudio use 1. order filters because the expensive units can handle the power and because the lower the order of the filter, the less problems with the phase. Also you have less components in the signal line with a 1. order filter that ie. a 4. order filter. But it is impossible to make a general rule of which is the better filter.

It is also impossible to determine the cutoff frequence without knowing the "real life-impedance" of the tweater. It might be a 4-ohm unit, but such a thing doesn't exist. The impedance will go up and down according to the frequence and could be anything between 3 ohms and 40 ohms or higher.

What you are saying is correct and is even more true for the woofer. The impedance will change drastically there. You can use a Zobel network in this case but I guess we are taking things to far then.

I want to try to get the most out of the OEM system. A 1st order filter and maybe to correct the sharpness (higher volume) of the tweeter , 2 resistors to drop the level by about 2 dB.

[bogey555]

Interesting, I'd like to keep mods at min, but... have you got a link to best offer for HSK??

TIA,

Reijnders Automaterialen

This is a site in the Netherlands, It is possible that you can find it cheaper but i'm not sure about that.

If you read the reviews about this set and I presume there are English ones you will see it is very high rated and pro's agree that it is better than the 2way focal sets that costs a lot more.

[Genoa1893]

Thank you bogey

[A16NS V]

I recieved my Infinity components today and they turned out to be 5 1/4inch woofers :(

Still I've made the most of it and spent most of the day messing with the tweeter and woofer combinations. i also have a 6.5 inch Rainbow component set from a previous car so lots of tooing and frowing between speakers listening to some differences.

Now the first thing that imediately springs to my mind is the OEM woofers did not do voices as well as the other two. This is not actually surprising as if you look closely enough the size of the fronts are larger than 6.5 inch!? Have a look at this photo for comparison between the 3. Infinity 5 1/4 is the white cone, rainbow 6.5 is the black one. OEM looks to be about 7inch!

So no wonder the midrange is not that great yet everyone is impressed with the bass response

Anyway I decided to fit the Infinity Reference tweets in the stock location by popping the out the OEM and hot glueing the new ones in place. No drama and a good fit.

First listen and you can tell there is a gap in the sound and I guess that's what the 3 way system is meant for. However, almost imediately the shrill harsh sound has gone and it does sound sweeter.

I'll let the real judgement resdide in the week when I use it for work and I can listen while driving but certainly impressed with the difference for not much effort today.

[bogey555]

@ A16NS V

If I see your pictures I can't wait to start on mine, but for the moment my garage is full of stuff and I'm not eager to do it outside with our weather:(

As for the midrange, I think you also loose a lot of midrange in the seats. The higher the frequency the more it will be absorbed.

I guess the best way to go for the octyII is a tweeter on the A-pillar, a midrange in the cupholder of the door and massive sound deadening material on the inside to let your woofer play a mean kickbass. And as dessert if you like it a subwoofer in the trunk.

I heard a sound deadend octy II with Hertz HSK 165 in the doors(only 2 way) but the first thing I was wondering was where the heck did you put the subwoofer. The bass was massive.

Today I started my ICE adventure by placing the subwoofer in the trunk.

I putt the high pass filter of my HU on 80 Hz and send all frequencys below to the sub. The doors vibrate a lot less this way

I hope to get a bit of time in the near future to play with the front.

First thing to do is certainly sound deadening material, this makes a ENORMOUS improvement. You have to hear it to believe it

If I have a bit more time I will post a bit more info.

[GAFF]

Did you manage to get the door card off without breaking the the fastners? Any tips????

[Genoa1893]

Great!

Did you check if original woofer is connected through a LPF, or is it working full range?

BTW, is the woofer really riveted, as it seems?

Thank you,

[A16NS V]

Great!

Did you check if original woofer is connected through a LPF, or is it working full range?

BTW, is the woofer really riveted, as it seems?

Thank you,

As I noted previously the Leon's is a very similar unit and underneath the 4 pin terminal was a LPF coil. Comparing side by side with one of my other woofers unfiltered I'd say it definatley has some form of crossover.

I've used the infinity reference crossover for now but will likely drill them out next time I take the door cards off and have a look.

Yes they are rivited on.

No there's no magical way of saving the suicidal green plastic fastners. Be careful at the top of the doors mind as i've bust the fastner holders.

[bogey555]

Great!

Did you check if original woofer is connected through a LPF, or is it working full range?

BTW, is the woofer really riveted, as it seems?

Thank you,

Check this one out as well, contains a lot of pictures of the front speakers.

http://briskoda.net/ice-security-insurance/octy-ii-ultimate-audio-upgrade-guide-pt-1-speakers/117485/

[GAFF]

mind as i've bust the fastner holders.

Exactly why I asked the question, what an absolutely STUPID DESIGN.

[Genoa1893]

Check this one out as well, contains a lot of pictures of the front speakers.

http://briskoda.net/ice-security-insurance/octy-ii-ultimate-audio-upgrade-guide-pt-1-speakers/117485/

Thank you bogey555, I'm really thinking of getting the Focal midranges and trying to leave the standard woofer and tweeter, each one with a different fc, of course

Stefano

[Hedge]

Did you manage to get the door card off without breaking the the fastners? Any tips????

When I tok mine off I had a supply of spares.

They are 7p from the dealer.

[bogey555]

Thank you bogey555, I'm really thinking of getting the Focal midranges and trying to leave the standard woofer and tweeter, each one with a different fc, of course

Stefano

I'm not convinced about the quality of the tweeter:confused: , but as far as the woofer is concerned, with adequate sound dampening of the doors I presume it will do fine.

Check out this site in Belgium, they sell Focal and Hertz and apparently you can get all speakers separetly. If you got a shop near you, you should listen to the Hertz stuff. It sounds great and at a much better price rate then Focal. (Only look at the Hi-Energy class) The HL70 is a midrange with the same size as the Focal midrange.

Hertz

[Genoa1893]

I'm not convinced about the quality of the tweeter:confused: , but as far as the woofer is concerned, with adequate sound dampening of the doors I presume it will do fine.

Check out this site in Belgium, they sell Focal and Hertz and apparently you can get all speakers separetly. If you got a shop near you, you should listen to the Hertz stuff. It sounds great and at a much better price rate then Focal. (Only look at the Hi-Energy class) The HL70 is a midrange with the same size as the Focal midrange.

Hertz

Great info here! Prices are really much lower than Focal. Perhaps these Herts is more than adequate for my first steps towards car hi-fi. And should you change the tweeter too, what would you suggest?

Stefano

[bogey555]

Great info here! Prices are really much lower than Focal. Perhaps these Herts is more than adequate for my first steps towards car hi-fi. And should you change the tweeter too, what would you suggest?

Stefano

I would certainly go for the HT 25 as it is far better then the HT 20.

The HT 25 is comparable to the Focal tweeter and shares the same sharp sound. With the Hertz crossover you can drop the tweeter level by 2 dB and that will be necessary.

If you don't use the Hertz crossover, it is still easy to calculate a resistor network to drop the tweeter by as many dB as you want.

If you check out the HSK 163, this set has al the components I would use, including the HV 165 L woofer wich is extremly good. Maybe a bitt less kick then the K2P but fantasticly warm

I have some dutch reviews about this set, but I don't know if this is interesting for you.

[Genoa1893]

Oh yes, it would be, given that I'm learning as much as possible for this small upgrade.

[A16NS V]

Just to back up what bogey555 says, no matter how you fiddle with the stock tweeter it will still have the same charateristics. Comparing one side OEM to the other with Infinity is night and day. You can tell immediately how the stock tweeter lacks finesse and HF extension.

I've been listening to mine over the last few days and I'm much happier but it still could be better. I think turning the tweet down by a few dBs is a great idea. On my Infinity crossover it does have a -3dB setting so I'll try that. The sound at the moment is like turning the midrange down on a 3 band equaliser. You get an initially pleasing boom tis but then you miss the detail midrange can give!

The grand plan for me is to put a 15" sub in the boot and then swap the front midbase for something more musical.

[Genoa1893]

I would certainly go for the HT 25 as it is far better then the HT 20.

The HT 25 is comparable to the Focal tweeter and shares the same sharp sound. With the Hertz crossover you can drop the tweeter level by 2 dB and that will be necessary.

If you don't use the Hertz crossover, it is still easy to calculate a resistor network to drop the tweeter by as many dB as you want.

If you check out the HSK 163, this set has al the components I would use, including the HV 165 L woofer wich is extremly good. Maybe a bitt less kick then the K2P but fantasticly warm

I have some dutch reviews about this set, but I don't know if this is interesting for you.

Hi bogey555,

many thanks. I found the kit at EUR 259,00 which seems quite a reasonable price

Hi A16NS V, thanks a lot for your opinion. It seems I have to get rid of the original speakers...

And now, what about a power amp? I have the stream MP3 HU, but wouldn't a separate power amp (or a couple of them), yet driven by the HU amp, help good sound?

[GAFF]

When I tok mine off I had a supply of spares.

They are 7p from the dealer.

Tbh its more what they are attached to on the doorcard is the problem. Last time dealer had my door card off, one of the mountings broke on the door.

[bogey555]

Hi bogey555,

many thanks. I found the kit at EUR 259,00 which seems quite a reasonable price

Hi A16NS V, thanks a lot for your opinion. It seems I have to get rid of the original speakers...

And now, what about a power amp? I have the stream MP3 HU, but wouldn't a separate power amp (or a couple of them), yet driven by the HU amp, help good sound?

Hi Genoa1893,

First as promised some links

Mobile Electronics Australia > Hertz HSK-163

Rainbow vs Focal vs MB Quart vs Hertz - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

HSK 165

http://www.elettromedia.eu/press/title_files/Test%20Ausgereift220.pdf

http://www.elettromedia.eu/press/title_files/Hertz%20HSK%20165113.pdf

Just read a bit trough these and you will be convinced of their quality.

The last 2 handle the HSK 165 a 2way set that can't compare with the HSK 163. So if you read the positive remarks on the HSK 165, imagine what the 163's sound like.

Nice price (259 €) , just be carefull that you have the correct set, because they can vary from country to country.

Tweeter : HT25

Mid : HL 70

Woofer : HV 165L (Better than the HV 165)

As for an amp, 100% sure you need to amp these. They will sound ok from the HU but they will blow you're mind once amped.

Don't forget sound damping in the front doors or you won't enjoy your setup.

I'm going to hang them on an older pioneer amp with 2 times 100W rms because I still have it lying around here.

1 amp is enough if you don't use a sub.

I have a flat sub in the back since this weekend and I must say its a world of difference

[bogey555]

Just to back up what bogey555 says, no matter how you fiddle with the stock tweeter it will still have the same charateristics. Comparing one side OEM to the other with Infinity is night and day. You can tell immediately how the stock tweeter lacks finesse and HF extension.

I've been listening to mine over the last few days and I'm much happier but it still could be better. I think turning the tweet down by a few dBs is a great idea. On my Infinity crossover it does have a -3dB setting so I'll try that. The sound at the moment is like turning the midrange down on a 3 band equaliser. You get an initially pleasing boom tis but then you miss the detail midrange can give!

The grand plan for me is to put a 15" sub in the boot and then swap the front midbase for something more musical.

One of the disadvantages of your setup is the tweeter location. If you would have moved them up to the A-pillar it would have been better.

Anyway you have the advantage of a nice stealthy installation wich performs a lot better than OEM.

Be aware if you want to move the bass to the back you are going to pull the entire soundstage back.

I heard a lot about it but it isn't until this weekend since I installed the sub I know what it means.

If the music is playing soft and I crank up the amp of the sub, the bass moves to the back and it sounds terrible. The moment the frontwoofers get turned up a bit you get a sort of soundcoupling and the bass is all of a sudden cumming from everywhere:thumbup:

This sounds a lot better, so be aware you need to keep woofers in the front to play kickbass.

If you want more mid I'm afraid there is nothing else to do then placing a midrange speaker in the front.:(

Would have been a lot better if the speakers would be located in the front of the doors.

[Genoa1893]

Hi bogey555,

thanks for the wealth of info! It seems I'll have to read for a while. What do you mean when you say to pay attention to the correct version of Hertz HSK-163?

Just to add more "meat",did anybody listen to Dynaudio set for VW passat?

About the sub theme, I can speak for personal experience in my home setup. My two diy 100lt sealed subs are lpf at 50Hz (-3dB) and I can assure you that you can't feel where is the bass coming from, as ear can't localize such low freq source position and because low freq waves couple with room modes.

So, if you can feel basses from rear, I fear you have too a high fcut for your sub lpf.

HTH,

Edited 8 October, 2008 by Genoa1893

[A16NS V]

One of the disadvantages of your setup is the tweeter location. If you would have moved them up to the A-pillar it would have been better.

Anyway you have the advantage of a nice stealthy installation wich performs a lot better than OEM.

Be aware if you want to move the bass to the back you are going to pull the entire soundstage back.

I heard a lot about it but it isn't until this weekend since I installed the sub I know what it means.

If the music is playing soft and I crank up the amp of the sub, the bass moves to the back and it sounds terrible. The moment the frontwoofers get turned up a bit you get a sort of soundcoupling and the bass is all of a sudden cumming from everywhere:thumbup:

This sounds a lot better, so be aware you need to keep woofers in the front to play kickbass.

If you want more mid I'm afraid there is nothing else to do then placing a midrange speaker in the front.:(

Would have been a lot better if the speakers would be located in the front of the doors.

You're right about the sub. I prefer to listen to mine so it boosts the low frequencies and not take over.

The kick from the front midbase units is enough to keep the soundstage where it is but as you point out by the hips is not great.

I may have to suffer with mine for a while as it is a company car so I can't cut too many holes in it otherwise the A pillers would be a good location

[bogey555]

Hi bogey555,

thanks for the wealth of info! It seems I'll have to read for a while. What do you mean when you say to pay attention to the correct version of Hertz HSK-163?

Just to add more "meat",did anybody listen to Dynaudio set for VW passat?

About the sub theme, I can speak for personal experience in my home setup. My two diy 100lt sealed subs are lpf at 50Hz (-3dB) and I can assure you that you can't feel where is the bass coming from, as ear can't localize such low freq source position and because low freq waves couple with room modes.

So, if you can feel basses from rear, I fear you have too a high fcut for your sub lpf.

HTH,

Hi Genoa1893,

The sub has an active crossover that goes from 50 to 125 Hz.

You can't compare a room to a car, it is completely different.

I can assure you even on 50 Hz, if you lower the front woofer volume without lowering the sub volume you hear the sound seperating. I know its strange but it happens. Once you cranck the volume up on the front you hear a smooth transition as were the sub seems to blend in the rest of the music.

My sub is also controlled by the HU, so there is no problem there. I set the volume of the sub to the desired level and it goes up and down with the volume of the HU.

The only point I was trying to make was that if you should only place high and mid in the front and let the bass come souly from behind it would sound pitifull.

[bogey555]

You're right about the sub. I prefer to listen to mine so it boosts the low frequencies and not take over.

The kick from the front midbase units is enough to keep the soundstage where it is but as you point out by the hips is not great.

I may have to suffer with mine for a while as it is a company car so I can't cut too many holes in it otherwise the A pillers would be a good location

I thought you were planning to take out the woofer and replace it by a midrange, so I misunderstood

It's a pitty that you can't change to much about the company car :(

Judging by your pictures I thought you were planning to change everything.

Anyway it should already be a lot better than the OEM setup

Maybe placing a midrange in the side cupholder is still a possibility :confused:

There is only a little hole necessary for the cable if you use a sort of PVC tube like mr200sx.