The small diesels that just don't add up - Parker's

interesting:confused:

At the end of the day, the consumer will make their own choise based on what they want from a car and at the buget they are happy with.

Just my humble oppinion.

There was a massive thread on this about 6 weeks ago, do a search

A lot of it is down to use patterns as well. If you spend more time in traffic, diesels do much better on fuel than petrols. The standard figures suggest a small difference, but in real world use the diesels advantage is greater than in standardised testing. I ran a 1.0 petrol Corsa for tuition for a very short while and it struggled to see 34mpg average and often made 32mpg. Also looking at the comparisons, first in the list is the Fiat 500. Although the diesel is more expensive, it has a bit more power and around half as much mid range torque again, so is probably a better drive.

What really does not make sense is people driving diesels for low mileage use. I reckon you need to be up in the 40,000 miles per year range as an average user before diesel makes sense.

Chris

Modern diesels arnt just for economy though. Many years ago people would buy the petrol version cos they wanted outright performance and diesel for outright economy.

Nowadays, petrol engines are more economical than old but the mainstream ones have lost their edge on performance too as emmission controls etc take place. Diesels however seem to of gained more performance yet increased economy too.

Diesels now arnt just bought for economy, they are bought as a perfomance car and a for the way it drives, but not neccasarily on outright top speed etc.

Even though my TDi vRS costs more to buy than a petrol and over its life with me wont be that more cheaper to run than the petrol version, I just like the way it drives and couldnt stomach the 20mpg that I would get out of a petrol when pressing on compared to the 30-35 I get in the TDi.

Steve

Is that article not a bit disingenuous?

A diesel never has been a good option if you only do average or low mileage.

And the cars they compared don't all have similar performances.

Plus the higher up front cost is made back somewhat with the higher resale value.

I don't doubt that petrol cars can be cheaper a lot of time but this article is too simplistic.

...What really does not make sense is people driving diesels for low mileage use. I reckon you need to be up in the 40,000 miles per year range as an average user before diesel makes sense.

Chris

I drive roughly 900 miles / month (~11k/yr) yet on fuel and tax I calculate I save over £300 a year running a second-hand diesel. I really can't understand that people seem to think it's cheaper to run petrol cars or you have to do high mileage to see the benefits of running a diesel car.

:confused:

Matt

I drive roughly 900 miles / month (~11k/yr) yet on fuel and tax I calculate I save over £300 a year running a second-hand diesel. I really can't understand that people seem to think it's cheaper to run petrol cars or you have to do high mileage to see the benefits of running a diesel car.

:confused:

Matt

not that I've read the article on Parkers, but isn't it new cars they're on about and don't they factor in everything else, like (higher?) servicing costs?

I think this article is based on buying new.

If you buy a new diesel its a fair whack on top of a petrol counterpart.

So you would need to do a lot of miles or keep it longer to recoup the initial outlay.

The article doesn't take into account performance, drivability and if you need to tow things.

It's just to point out that depending on your mileage and what you want out of a new car it might not make financial sense buying a diesel over a petrol if it's economy you are after.

Things I think it ignores:-

1) The diesel will have a higher resale value.

2) What price drivability, or pulling 3_000rpm rather than 4_000 on a steady speed motorway drag?

3) Real on-road performance; both my TDis have had the overtaking ability of a much more powerful petrol car.

@ andypandypoos and captain sisco,

You're right, it only relates to buying diesels new. My mistake

It might be something about the way I drive, but in the VRS I have averaged > 52MPG for the last 8-9 months, however in a 1.2 litre Mitsibushi Colt the best I could get when trying was 32-33MPG. How do these new cars get a combined figure of 46MPG - 50MPG? Downhill all the way?

I think they prob drive them as if theres a bomb on board

I get 40+ mpg from my Felly 1.6

I bought my Fabia VRS because it outperformed petrol cars which would have had similar insurance costs (Astra 1.8 SRI, Civic Sport, Fiesta Zetec S)

It might be something about the way I drive, but in the VRS I have averaged > 52MPG for the last 8-9 months, however in a 1.2 litre Mitsibushi Colt the best I could get when trying was 32-33MPG. How do these new cars get a combined figure of 46MPG - 50MPG? Downhill all the way?

Probably the same here: I got thirty-something out of a 1.2L Fox, but regularly see 48-50 from the Fabia vRS. I think small petrol engines are only economical if driven gently.

forget the nerdy figures I changed a top of the range 05 primera for a fabia 3 1,9 td cheaper road tax cheaper insurance great mpg, done no sums to justify it ,money is spent, love the car no regrets getting on with life not staying awake at night worrying about how many years i have to drive to balance the figures between petrol @ diesel

Well said. At the end of the day it's your car.

Sometimes you need to do maths but if you let that rule then you'll prob end up with a car you don't like regardless of numbers.

Modern diesels arnt just for economy though....

I know what you mean. I was simply mortified not to get more out of the Roomster...

I just prefer the feel of the Diesel engine so it doesn't bother me one bit.

i don't think "feeling" is anything to do with petrol Vs diesel myself as i have driven diesels that drive like traditional petrols and vice versa, i drove a TD astra for a couple weeks on holiday and it only managed high 30's mpg wise(and i was trying my best to get high mpg by using very little throttle, changing early and on long motorway runs or even main roads that were straight and flat i used cruise to keep it steady), had virtually no pull till 2k+ and was all gone before 3k so was pants all round but i have driven other diesels that are super strong low down and give excellent mpg figures.

also you say you like the way diesels drive but i find my 1.8t drives like a diesel at low revs with bags of low down torque(steep hil starts, towing large cars(both cars with people) and towing large cars on trailers all on idle with no fuss what so ever) and on a long run back from scotland not hanging around and lots of accelerating still managed mid 30's mpg wise which for a 1500Kg 270bhp 4x4 estate car getting a hoofing i thought was excellent.

It does depend how you drive your car at the end of the day. Often the figures quoted by the manufacturers aren't always obtainable anyway - they are usually based on a car which is in peak condition. I find I can get up to 40mpg out of my 1.6 Octavia on a good day, however if I need to move it drops to the low 30's.

i don't think "feeling" is anything to do with petrol Vs diesel myself as i have driven diesels that drive like traditional petrols and vice versa, i drove a TD astra for a couple weeks on holiday and it only managed high 30's mpg wise(and i was trying my best to get high mpg by using very little throttle, changing early and on long motorway runs or even main roads that were straight and flat i used cruise to keep it steady), had virtually no pull till 2k+ and was all gone before 3k so was pants all round but i have driven other diesels that are super strong low down and give excellent mpg figures.

I agree totally about the general cr@pness of V@*xh@11 diesels. Ok, it's about 10 years ago, but I drove one that was less flexible than a 1.4l petrol engine in a bigger shell!

I agree totally about the general cr@pness of V@*xh@11 diesels. Ok, it's about 10 years ago, but I drove one that was less flexible than a 1.4l petrol engine in a bigger shell!

drove my boss' 06/07 reg 1.9CDTi Zafira this week and it's lack of b*ll*cks (the assessor's words not mine ) below about 2000RPM was downright scary at times

drove my boss' 06/07 reg 1.9CDTi Zafira this week and it's lack of b*ll*cks (the assessor's words not mine ) below about 2000RPM was downright scary at times

My only dabbling with recent Vauxhall diesels was with a 1.9 CDTi Vivaro (100bhp I think). Thought it was a really good engine, certainly much smoother and more refined than the 1.9 in my Fabia and with plenty of predictable overtaking poke where needed. The van was good fun across the B roads on the way back too when it was unladen

Chris

drove my boss' 06/07 reg 1.9CDTi Zafira this week and it's lack of b*ll*cks (the assessor's words not mine ) below about 2000RPM was downright scary at times

Whereas the VAG 1.9 TDi110 in an Octy will gain speed from idle in top, and starts feeling "pleasantly quick" at about 1_500, whilst not actually slowing acceleration until over 4_000.