Driven cars for 20 years.Mostly not slowly.

Watching Tiff take that Mk II Golf GTI till the needle was nearly doing a full circle made me think.

I know lots of you thrash round tracks.I'd always had it drilled into me that you are damaging things once you get into the redline band.On my mx 7000-8000 is all coloured nicely red.

Long winded way of asking....is it ok or not to be touching the other absolute end of the rev counter with the needle:eek:

Cheers (mainly a qu for the petrol people really!)

Edited 25 September, 200817 yr by lozgti

On modern cars they have quite a heavily enforced rev-limiter so your not going to go over it unless you change down too early.. plus engines are designed to give their best performance mid-range, rather than towards the top end of the rev-band.

on older models they didnt so the redline was a guide.. i wound my old E reg cavalier rev-counter all the way round the clock before... prob approaching 9k

On that golf it had forged engine components, stronger valve springs etc so can rev higher without danger.

It also had new cams so would rev higher than standard anyway.

I bet those mods cost a fair amount. Nice car though, I would have put new tyres on when the suspension was changed.

Also the thing that just cought my eye...

The tuned golf was flying round that track just as quick as VBH was in the 911 and boxster S from the show the week before...

I don't think the straights are long enough on the track they use now to make a huge difference and the power to weight of that Golf must be great I think they mentioned around 185bhp and coming in at a tonne:thumbup:

i always thought the rev limiter was there to stop any damage happening?

as long as the car is in good condition, and properly warmed up the occassional redline shoudlnt matter.

im looking at pushing a 2.0ltr NA engine higher in the revs with throttle bodies, cams, management and head work. but weve found the internals wont take much extra revs. the cranks goes at something like 8000 rpm and the rods will be leaving straight after.but the rev limiter on the car stops you way before 8k, and on diesels the limiter is so sudden they dont tend to bounce about as much as the petrols do at the limit.

on older models they didnt so the redline was a guide.. i wound my old E reg cavalier rev-counter all the way round the clock before... prob approaching 9k

My first car was an '88 1.6L saloon Cav - I got bored of revs before it actually ran out of them.

Driven cars for 20 years.Mostly not slowly.

Watching Tiff take that Mk II Golf GTI till the needle was nearly doing a full circle made me think.

I know lots of you thrash round tracks.I'd always had it drilled into me that you are damaging things once you get into the redline band.On my mx 6000-8000 is all coloured nicely red.

Long winded way of asking....is it ok or not to be touching the other absolute end of the rev counter with the needle:eek:

Cheers (mainly a qu for the petrol people really!)

All depends on build. If you have a stock engine, stick within the rev limiter or red line. If you have a list of mods that allow the engine to produce power further up the rev range and survive, use the revs.

Incresing the revs an engine spins to is the most effective way of getting more power from a non boosted engine.

There are plenty of tuning bits available for the MX that will see it revving way past the red line.

Chris

The only reason you would hit the redline is if you still have some power there. Like Col says, most cars power is in the mid range, so revving to the reline is actually fruitless.

Tiff driving that Golf has made me want one......

The only reason you would hit the redline is if you still have some power there. Like Col says, most cars power is in the mid range, so revving to the reline is actually fruitless.

Tiff driving that Golf has made me want one......

Yep..

My mazbo will rev to 7k.. but ecu starts to close the throttle and turbo runs out of puff at 5500-6000 so no point pushing it...

how often does anyone push their furby vRS to the 5200 limiter? lol

The only reason you would hit the redline is if you still have some power there. Like Col says, most cars power is in the mid range, so revving to the reline is actually fruitless.

Tiff driving that Golf has made me want one......

Spoken like a true diesel head:D

I have two diesels (1.9 and 1.6 turbodiesels) and one petrol (6.9L V8) that really do not work well if being revved to anywhere near the red line. The other two petrol cars (3.2L V6 at 7000rpm and 1.8 4pot at 7200rpm) both work really well near the red line. All down to how they were designed and set up.

Mind you, a lot of modern petrol engines are set up for mid range power and economy, so no real gains in revving them hard. When an engine loses torque at high revs, it is really not satisfying to rev anyway. Personally, I like the MR2 which, since its modifications, just seems to love meeting the limiter in the first three or four gears.

Chris

On all the petrol cars I have driven, the engine screams out 'you're killing me' after 5000 RPM and at that point the passengers are also complaining, so a car able to rev higher had better have some pretty thick sound deadening in the engine bay and around the bulkhead.

TH

Tiff driving that Golf has made me want one......

Me too, I was straight on autotrader and ebay after watching it. Unfortunately, I either need to win the competition or the lottery before I'm likely to get one:(

On all the petrol cars I have driven, the engine screams out 'you're killing me' after 5000 RPM and at that point the passengers are also complaining, so a car able to rev higher had better have some pretty thick sound deadening in the engine bay and around the bulkhead.

TH

Lots of petrol cars are engineered with all the torque low in the rev range, so as they rev past that, the amount of thrust drops off and it feels like the engine is being strangled. A decent sporting setup sees the torque maintained higher up the rev range, so the engine just seems to pull harder and sweeter as the revs rise. My V6 is turbine smooth and very willing at 7000rpm, the modified 4 cylinder in the MR2 is sweet and happy revving to its rev limiter as well. I have a VW Polo with a 3 cylinder petrol here at the moment and revving it past about 3500rpm seems totally pointless.

You really should go and try a Honda with a decent Vtec engine. They just start to feel like they have reached the peak at about 5000 rpm, then the second cam kicks in and all is sweet and smooth right out past 8500rpm. I suppose coming from race tuned bikes where 14,000rpm was familiar territory, I am happy with high revs.

Chris

yeah, totally depends on the engine. power on mine appears to be climbing until around 5500rpm but looking at a typical torque graph shows that assuming I drop 1500-2000rpm (I've never really looked) changing at 5000rpm drops me slap bang into the middle of the built-in torque dip but changing at 6000rpm puts me just past it - but that's only when you're out on a jolly

Yes, I suppose you need to try such engines to understand them, but I never have had the chance yet. All the cars I have tried have been 8-valve pushrod jobbies - willing, but angry when rushed.

TH

I drove a car the other day where the red line started at 8000 rpm.

About 20 years ago I had an experiment with a 3000 mile 1.2 Nova (6 weeks old) to see how fast it would go in 2nd gear, it drove through one flat spot, picked up a little with the final flat spot at a speedo reading of 75 mph, unfotunately it did not have a rev counter. We continued to run around in that car for at least another two weeks without it breaking, before we sent it on a one way rental somewhere.

One of the possible courses for the development of the MR2 is to fit a tuned Toyota 2zz engine and gearbox. If I go for this, with stage 2 top end, toughened rods, bearings, uprated oil pump and cap bolts, I am told to expect a red line at 9500rpm with reliability! It is so tempting, but my wallet, at the moment, he say no.

Chris

...

You really should go and try a Honda with a decent Vtec engine. They just start to feel like they have reached the peak at about 5000 rpm, then the second cam kicks in and all is sweet and smooth right out past 8500rpm. ...

Yeah the Civic Type R I had a spin in was truly amazing. I've never driven a normally aspirated stock unit that revved as high and as freely and eagerly.

I never rev mine into the red line - the manufacturers stick it there for a reason!

A mate revved the hell out of a Favorit - red lining all the time, even in 5th and it survived. He only bought it for a bit of a laugh and sold it on again. It didn't seem effected by it.

When I have accidentally missed a gear (and red lined) it cost me £200 in an oil seal! Though it was an old Favorit, and had about 125K on the clock. Another mate had a go in my 1.6 Felicia when I had it, and red lined it, again I ended up with a bill for an oil seal. So my trick is dont red line it if you don't have to!

I never rev mine into the red line - the manufacturers stick it there for a reason!

correct they put it there so you cant damage the engine by accident by over revving. why put it up so high that if you go into the limter something breaks? makes no sense. you are pushing the engine to near its limits so things like seals will fail, im not surprised with 125k on the clock!

my vx engine is currently running tb's so i need to give it some welly to use them, once the extra work is done the rev limiter will go up a bit to make use of the power, but it will still be safe to do that once the cars warmed up.

Redlines a target isn't it?

I regularly put the Fab up to 4k but it is pointless going much over. My previous 2 cars which were both petrol I used to regularly take to over 6k and never had any issues, but I do always wait for them to be properly warmed through.