The 306 DTurbo was the fastest Diesel on the road when that first came out.

Which is why I said to his own standards, as there were plenty of diesel's out before 2002! However could you really class the pugs and cit as hot hatches? What performance figures did they have?

They were the old XUD engine with 90bhp, which is by no means fast these days but they had good torque which made them nippy in their own right.

They were regarded as the fastest diesles on the road at the time they were made, so its fair to say they were a diesel hot hatch of their time.

It'll never happen IMHO as it's not good enough or rather, focussed enough, to attain classic status. Plus it's a Skoda and there's no getting away from the fact. They still won't have totally shaken the bad image until well after my 4ss is dead I reckon

However, the Clio 172 - 182 range will I think. As they are readily available and everywhere, nobody appreciates what they are, todays 205 1.9. In years to come everyone will realise this and be gutted they didn't own one at the time!

Clios have managed it with the Williams I II and III because of the pedigree of the williams team, but i'm not so sure the newer ones will attain that status, but time will tell.

Just look at the Citroen 2CV....

i think they will. you can see it now with how they hold there price. the cupra leon tdi is the same, you can see them in auto trader with milage around the 90k mark and your still payin top wack!

they`ll always be the car remembered for changing or help change the image of skoda. Im 19, and drive a diesel skoda, for that alone theyll be remembered for a long time i think.

My last car was the Leon FR TDI and it never lost a penny in the first 12 months of ownership, but thats because they sold them off with the Cupra R kit and they sold like hot cakes.

They are nicer looking than the new shape Leon (IMO) and have a decent engine without the DPF to add to problems, so its not surprising that they are highly sought after and holding value, but i doubt they will be a classic car.

Too many sold, and use the wrong fuel...

Yes, but not in the usual/normal way. I mean this by when you analyse the car and all that it offers in the way of price,cost to run, looks, 'fun factor' potential to be moddied, maintainability and the inherent VAG group build quality. IMO, this is a sort of modern-day diesel hot hatch classic.

It surely has to be considered, if not now then in the future.

I agree.

But I guess it all depends on how we define 'classic'.

In the traditional/literal sense of the word, the answer is 'yes' on account of the model simply aging (from Wikipedia):

"Classic car is a term frequently used to describe an older car, but the exact meaning is subject to differences in opinion. Some are very inclusive,[who?] considering any older car in fine condition a classic. Others, including the Classic Car Club of America, maintain that 1948 is the last year for a car to be a classic."

It really depends on whom you ask. For further reading, go here: Classic car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, if I take it that what we are talking about here is the same 'classic' that applies to something like ye olde 205 GTi (1.9 and in Miami Blue, for my money) then the answer is still 'yes'.

To many, Skoda is still a bad word, but with the automotive enlightened it reeks of VAG quality.

However, unlike the likes of Audi, you actually get a discount for the badge, while getting said same quality.

It's good-looking, in a tastefully understated way.

It sips fuel if driven carefully.

It goes like stink if you have a heavy right foot (and even then the MPGs aint too bad).

It rides and handles well in standard form.

It revs like a petrol.

It can sound a bit like a Scooby (surely a good thing?) when under load at 'moderate speeds'.

The cabin's a nice place to be.

For a supermini, it's rather capacious.

Every single review I've ever read about it sings its praises, from Clarkson to Autocar.

All are very pleasantly surprised, nay shocked, at just how good it is.

Not to mention fun, too.

It's a Group 9.

It's refined (between 20 and 100mph you can hardly hear the engine... on a track).

It's eminently moddable.

And owning one makes you more attractive to both the opposite and same sex.

Nah doubt it..

Personally think its heading for Saxo status myself

Yep, the local barry boys have started buying cheaper PD100's and putting body kits on them so the VRS won't be far behind, in fact I'd say it's already on it's way as it starts to get cheaper.

Nah doubt it..

Personally think its heading for Saxo status myself

It saddens me to think this is true.

I Don't think this is the case personaly.

most of the younger drivers are easily influenced by the likes of Clarkson who detest deisels and disregard their potential by slating the rev band or the smell of them.... Everyone who owns one knows this is irrelavant, but those saxo/corsa boys are influenced so they look for the next affordable fast petrol, which appears to be the earlier models of the imprezza (all of which have a hard time from the vRS) and they seem to be more common with the boy racers with 3yrs NCD or more.

Agree'd im seeing more PD100/PD130's in Ibiza form driven by young yobs! lol.

Im one of them

Yeah, it's half the fun of the fair - proving them wrong!

Yeah, but then if it was a big engined manual Omega, I think you might have been losing £20 and eating humble pie.

The tunes ones especially go very well.

it was a standard 2.2 auto and i know for a fact it isn't quick, just thirsty.

He didn't want to try it so i guess he knew it was slow too.

And my Fab' is mapped too

Yep, the local barry boys have started buying cheaper PD100's and putting body kits on them so the VRS won't be far behind, in fact I'd say it's already on it's way as it starts to get cheaper.

I don't see how what people choose to do to the car, or who it ends up being bought by, can alter its status, classic or not. :confused:

An E-Type Jag would hardly lose its classic tag if it somehow became popular amongst neds, for example.

Once a classic, always a classic.

Edited 27 September, 200817 yr by Mr Wobblytickle

Your average ned has never and will never be able to afford an E Type Jag, unless its just a chassis in need of a rebuild (before someone points out a scrapper on ebay for £2000.) Unfortunately this is the way of the the car world, as cars get older they get cheaper and so become available to those who couldn't have afforded them when they were new.

In the case of the E type, and most other high end sports cars, and later supercars, that price can still exclude most people. The Fabia vRS on the other hand was a bargain when it was new (one of the reasons why we who bought them new love them, its great watching your 13 grand car see off a 20 grand beemer) this very fact now means that younger drivers can afford to buy and more importantly run them.

I do think the Fabia vRS was a trend setting car, but the advancement in Diesel technology made a car of its type inevitable. VAG just played safe by using its Skoda brand to test the waters (lets not forget the brains in the Czech republic wanted it to be petrol with the 1.8 20v turbo engine) and it was the boss of VW at the time who insisted it use the 1.9 TDI engine. I wish he would have followed this through to its natural conclusion and made it 175 BHP out of the box because then it really would have put the cat amongst the pigeons :-)

Your average ned has never and will never be able to afford an E Type Jag, unless its just a chassis in need of a rebuild (before someone points out a scrapper on ebay for £2000.) Unfortunately this is the way of the the car world, as cars get older they get cheaper and so become available to those who couldn't have afforded them when they were new.

In the case of the E type, and most other high end sports cars, and later supercars, that price can still exclude most people. The Fabia vRS on the other hand was a bargain when it was new (one of the reasons why we who bought them new love them, its great watching your 13 grand car see off a 20 grand beemer) this very fact now means that younger drivers can afford to buy and more importantly run them.

I do think the Fabia vRS was a trend setting car...

So, do you think the vRS a classic, or not?

Further, do you dispute that once a classic, always a classic?

Lastly, is that Letham in Perthshire, Angus, or somewhere else entirely?

Ive just speed read this...sorry if Ive missed anything.

As much as I love my vRS, and as capable as it is now, I dont think it will ever gain classic status.

Most classic cars (well, hatch back ones) are first of a kind, or improvements on them. MK 1 and 2 Golf gti, 205 Gti, Series 1 Rs turbo, Mk 1 Xr2.... etc.

All the now classic hot hatches from my youth only have 2 doors, neutral handling with a hint and in some cases lots of LOO. The Fabia is too safe, too heavy, too late to be a classic IMHO.

Surely a classic car becomes a classic as it gains desirability as the years go on. The Gti Mk1 is a car I have always wanted. I'm not only one, which is why good examples fetch good money now.

Mint 205 Gti's fetch good money in original condition, although most get stripped and battered round a track now.

I cant imagine anything from the current age becoming a classic. Maybe the Clio 255, because its a one of a kind and bonkers.

As for what was the first performance diesel hatch? 306 D turbo, Citroen Bx Td (lighter than the Pug ), both of these a long time before you would even consider a Skoda as an everyday car, and a long time before diesels were considered a decent alternative to petrol.

I had a 88 Citroen BX DTR Turbo years ago, which could possibly be classed as a very early diesel hot hatch. It had the huge rear spoiler, alloys, bodykit and sports interior of the GTI model. it had the PSA 90bhp TD engine, which (because most of the BX was plastic and thus weighed hardly anything) absolutely flew. Book 0-60 was 10 seconds dead, which is still respectable for a diesel today. Mid range acceleration was amazing. Still remember it fondly. Handlng and ride were superb, amazingly well-equipped car with electric everything.

205 Dturbo, ZX Volcane TD, 306 Dturbo all early diesel hot hatches. Peugeot did a fantastic 205 TD called (unfortunately) an STDT. It had the full bodykit and alloys from the 1.9 GTI, along with full leather GTI interior. Always wanted one of those.

VRS could well become a cult classic that sums up a particular era (especially in black or silver) - really mint XR3is can go for three grand (even though they are pants) and late MK2 Golf GTIs can go for five grand, because they sum up the late Eighties and early Nineties, and are bought by blokes who had one/wanted one back in the day. Which is why I'm trying to persuade my girlfriend that her first car should be a twenty year old 205 Cabrio...

I do think the Fabia vRS was a trend setting car, but the advancement in Diesel technology made a car of its type inevitable. VAG just played safe by using its Skoda brand to test the waters (lets not forget the brains in the Czech republic wanted it to be petrol with the 1.8 20v turbo engine) and it was the boss of VW at the time who insisted it use the 1.9 TDI engine. I wish he would have followed this through to its natural conclusion and made it 175 BHP out of the box because then it really would have put the cat amongst the pigeons :-)

The VW people had the Golf PD130 and PD150 ages before Skoda or Seat and as the Golf GTI was the first hot hatch then the PD130 or PD150 GT-TDIs are the first real hot hatchbacks. The PD engine was a fantastic breakthrough in diesel technology and it must be massively galling for VW to be forced to use CR diesel engines to hit emissions standards, as they're just not as good.

VRS could well become a cult classic that sums up a particular era (especially in black or silver) - really mint XR3is can go for three grand (even though they are pants)...

they`ll always be the car remembered for changing or help change the image of skoda. Im 19, and drive a diesel skoda, for that alone theyll be remembered for a long time i think.

i think you'll find thats the mk1 octavia vRS your thinking of mate

it was their first sporty car and the first to have the 180bhp engine

its certainly what got me interested in skoda's all those years ago along with many many others, the fabia came years later.

i think you'll find thats the mk1 octavia vRS your thinking of mate

it was their first sporty car and the first to have the 180bhp engine

its certainly what got me interested in skoda's all those years ago along with many many others, the fabia came years later.

i've just finnished reading a book written by a skoda historian,he crewdits both mk1 octavia and mk 1 fabia with saving the brand,after the octavia he says skoda needed another very strong selling car,and got it with the fabia,i think they both will become classics,after ll how many cars can lay claim to all the pro's the fabia and the octavia have,its not everyday a model is credited with saving a very historic brand like skoda.

with the fabia i wouldn't say it was the vRS that saved them on its own as around oxford at least its not a good seller, there are far more normal ones around. the same goes for the octavia as well