Hi

I've done a quick search and this isn't obviously answered elsewhere so I hope it's OK to post what may turn out to be a stupid question:

I just went to Halfords to get oil and a filter for my 2000(W) Octavia TDi (110BHP not PD), as the Oil service indicator has started showing. I had to ask at the counter what I needed as it wasn't in the book. The guy asked whether it was fixed or variable servicing to which I asked how I could tell.

He told me that if the warning came up after anything other than one year since it was last done then it must be variable, and therefore I needed fully synthetic oil (costing me £60 as I needed the starndard 4L can plus a top-up).

Thing is, I'm sceptical about his method for identifying which type of servicing it needs - can anyone confirm what he says (or otherwise) and (if otherwise) advise on how I do find out what type of oil I need?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Chris

Fixed servicing is every 10k miles, while variable might go as far as every 30k between oil changes. My 2001 110TDi is on variable, and I seem to get the full 30k.

I get my oil from one of the site sponsors - opie oils. fuch stuff - seems to be ok, abd you get a 10% discount for being a briskoda member.....

If you reset the service light by pushing the button on the dash then that puts the car into a fixed service schedule. On variable servicing it needs to be be reset via the diagnostic socket (with vag-com, or a friendly RAC/AA man / someone with an ODB2 tool)

If you have vagcom you can find out the servicing schedule I believe.

Castrol Edge 5W-30 shows for your car

All this fixed variable rubbish confuses me too. What's the point?!

Just change the oil every 10k miles or 12 months, whichever comes first.

Personally I ignore all the Skoda service rules and just use common sense.

:iagree:

The variable (or long life) servicing is there primarily for high annual mileage cars I think. I would find it a right pain in the backside to be changing the oil and filter 3 or 4 times a year, where as just under once a year suits me much better :-)

No, it's for those (like Skoda) who do not wish to look after their car properly (variable is well known to cause engine damange and wear in excess of that seen in fixed) in the name of cheaper (in the short run) yearly bills and less time off the road.

From an engineering point of view I would highly recomend sticking to fixed/10k. Any mfr of actual componants, such as ZF with the gearboxes, or the oil mfr's (just had a meeting with a director of one of the major ones recently who spoke about long life as if it was evil and un-natural, which it is) will tell you that oil needs to be changed far more frequently than the car mfr's will admit. The car mfr's are competing via marketing and servicing costs, it's not an engineering choice.

Good buddy, if you forget the expensive longlife oil and get it changed by a good independant you'll likley not cost you any more anyhow and protect your engine better!

Greg.

The variable (or long life) servicing is there primarily for high annual mileage cars I think. I would find it a right pain in the backside to be changing the oil and filter 3 or 4 times a year, where as just under once a year suits me much better :-)

I change my oil and filter twice a year, I never think it does any harm to have the engine running in clean oil........

Halfords own VW507.0 will be fine for you it's about £44 in a 5L tin so will save you a good bit over the castrol edge they are selling you.

I'd use a genuine filter from the dealer myself, but otherwise should be all good

If you have not used the oil take it back and get a refund. lsuk at mitchell way off the airport service road sell 5L for about £25 and are open till 12 tomorrow.

Bazaa

Thanks for the advice guys. I will be doing as Bazaa suggests, as well as sticking to 10k service intervals, which for me is only just under a year anyway

No, it's for those (like Skoda) who do not wish to look after their car properly (variable is well known to cause engine damange and wear in excess of that seen in fixed) in the name of cheaper (in the short run) yearly bills and less time off the road.

From an engineering point of view I would highly recomend sticking to fixed/10k. Any mfr of actual componants, such as ZF with the gearboxes, or the oil mfr's (just had a meeting with a director of one of the major ones recently who spoke about long life as if it was evil and un-natural, which it is) will tell you that oil needs to be changed far more frequently than the car mfr's will admit. The car mfr's are competing via marketing and servicing costs, it's not an engineering choice.

Good buddy, if you forget the expensive longlife oil and get it changed by a good independant you'll likley not cost you any more anyhow and protect your engine better!

Greg.

i kind of agree

variable service has it's place but it's purpose is the reverse of what people think

variable servicing is designed for light duty or gentle motorway cruising - oil approval VW504.00 VW507.00

fixed servicing is for arduous use i.e hard driving, high load, high speed, stop start town driving (all taxi drivers should be on this one ideally) -

oil approval VW505.01 VW505.00 VW502.00

different oils for both and really important to put the right one in

also be wary about the wording of specs on the side of the can "meets the specification of" is not "approved"

hope this helps

Edited 21 November, 200817 yr by wonkydonkey

VW backwards specified 507.00 as the best oil for all tdi's, superceeding 505.01. Also, DPF engines must use 507.00 regardless of fixed or variable. 507.00 is superior oil and slightly lower friction, regardless of the servicing routine.

Variable servicing is just that - if driven under ardous conditions it's supposed to shorten the interval, if on a motorway life lengthen it. However the issues I have is that the length of the interval, regardless of the style of driving, is driven by accountants trying to entice fleet buyers.

An engineers choice is to service his vehicle regularly, regardless of the grade of oil, not leave it till the oil virtually cannot hang on any longer.

Just as ZF, the maker of some of VW's auto boxes, say oil MUST be changed by 80k tops (preferably half that), and VW say that it's sealed for life and never needs changing. One is marketing talking, one is the engineers talking that built it.

Greg.

i kind of agree

variable service has it's place but it's purpose is the reverse of what people think

variable servicing is designed for light duty, low mileage or gentle motorway cruising - oil approval VW504.00 VW507.00

fixed servicing is for arduous use i.e hard driving, high load, high speed, stop start town driving (all taxi drivers should be on this one ideally) -

oil approval VW505.01 VW505.00 VW502.00

different oils for both and really important to put the right one in

also be wary about the wording of specs on the side of the can "meets the specification of" is not "approved"

hope this helps

...However the issues I have is that the length of the interval, regardless of the style of driving, is driven by accountants trying to entice fleet buyers...

Greg.

:iagree:

It's all about TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) calculations. In many markets, fully synthetic oil is used for fixed servicing intervals.

I saw a Skoda TCO document sent to a car rental company. It showed the service schedule type against the mileage at disposal.

The first thing it showed was no service before 12300 on variable. I have seen 'car must be returned by 12300 or penalty' stickers on rentals from different companies so I guess this is a common requirement.

The other interesting thing it showed was that it recommended a switch to fixed after variable service 3 (although it commented that most cars of this mileage would have already been disposed of) whilst continuing to use fully synthetic oil.

VW backwards specified 507.00 as the best oil for all tdi's, superceeding 505.01. Also, DPF engines must use 507.00 regardless of fixed or variable. 507.00 is superior oil and slightly lower friction, regardless of the servicing routine.

Variable servicing is just that - if driven under ardous conditions it's supposed to shorten the interval, if on a motorway life lengthen it. However the issues I have is that the length of the interval, regardless of the style of driving, is driven by accountants trying to entice fleet buyers.

An engineers choice is to service his vehicle regularly, regardless of the grade of oil, not leave it till the oil virtually cannot hang on any longer.

Just as ZF, the maker of some of VW's auto boxes, say oil MUST be changed by 80k tops (preferably half that), and VW say that it's sealed for life and never needs changing. One is marketing talking, one is the engineers talking that built it.

Greg.

there is a certain amount of pr to variable servicing but it does say on the volkswagen website

Volkswagen Servicing Plans : Volkswagen UK

507.00 definately does not supercede 505.01 for fixed servicing

the only time 507.00 is used in 505.01 (fixed) application for the 3/4 cylinder pd engine is if the car had a particle filter

You can use VW507 in all PD TDI's in all circumstance, fixed or variable.

The reasons you'd use 505.1 is to save a bit of money, but the VW507 is a higher quality oil.

That method to determine what the car's presently on works for me; I do 8 and a bit thousand a year on fixed, and "service now" goes off a year after the last service.

What he didn't mention was that a DIY service without a VAG-COM will set the service type to fixed regardless of what it was before.

Oh and Greg and RWB are correct about the motivations etc behind variable and extended service regimes.

You can use VW507 in all PD TDI's in all circumstance, fixed or variable.

The reasons you'd use 505.1 is to save a bit of money, but the VW507 is a higher quality oil.

wrong

i've spoken to shell technical and they say their helix ultra vx doesn't supercede 505.01 for fixed servicing and is only to be used for pd engines on fixed servicing with particle filters only

on the back of Mobil 1 esp 5W-30 it says supercedes 505.01 except 3/4 cyl engines without longlife service

VW are trying to explain it the best they can

the dealership salesmen sell it a different way i'm sure

wrong

i've spoken to shell technical and they say their helix ultra vx doesn't supercede 505.01 for fixed servicing and is only to be used for pd engines on fixed servicing with particle filters only

on the back of Mobil 1 esp 5W-30 it says supercedes 505.01 except 3/4 cyl engines without longlife service

VW are trying to explain it the best they can

the dealership salesmen sell it a different way i'm sure

The VW507 (certainly) is an all encompassing standard that can be used in all circumstances on VW PD TDI engines.

If you put VW507 in you won't do the engine any harm regardless of what servicing type it is on.

I don't buy shell oil so I can't comment, but certainly Millers and the others say it exceeds the VW505.1 standard and replaced the VW506.1 standard.

Certainly I have my car on variable servicing and have the oil changed for replacement VW507 stuff every 9-10k.

The VW507 (certainly) is an all encompassing standard that can be used in all circumstances on VW PD TDI engines.

If you put VW507 in you won't do the engine any harm regardless of what servicing type it is on.

I don't buy shell oil so I can't comment, but certainly Millers and the others say it exceeds the VW505.1 standard and replaced the VW506.1 standard.

Certainly I have my car on variable servicing and have the oil changed for replacement VW507 stuff every 9-10k.

There are exceptions and PD engines on Time Distance servicing is one of them

i only know about the Castrol, Shell and Mobil

Shell say definately don't use longlife III for Time Distance servicing in PD engines except if it has a particle filter

Mobil say the same

Castrol say on their website about their Edge product:

Q. Which is the replacement for the SLX Longlife II oil?

A. This is the EDGE 5W-30 – the Longlife II oil was a 0W-30 viscosity to 503 00 / 506 00 / 506 01 specification – you’ll notice that as well as the new viscosity the specification on the EDGE 5W-30 is VW 504 00 / 507 00 – this is the latest VW specification for the VW Longlife oil.

The EDGE 5W-30 is suitable for all Audi vehicles on both variable and fixed servicing and VW cars on variable servicing with the exception of - VW R5 and V10 TDi engines (Touareg) and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use the 506 01 specification oil (SLX Longlife II) – contact your VW/Audi dealer for this product.

VW cars fitted with PD diesel engines on fixed servicing (VW 505 01) must use the EDGE Turbo Diesel 5W-40.

These are the 3 biggest oil companies in the world (Shell, Exxonmobil and BP) and due to their ties to VW have the most up to date and accurate info and if all three are saying don't use longlife III in PD engines on Time Distance servicing then that's enough for me. You must bare in mind that Castrol worked with VW to create the longlife oil and they supply all VW and Audi's oil both as Castrol and Quantum brand so they should know.

this is from the VW website also which may explain the difference between Time Distance and Variable a bit better

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/common/content/owners/Longlife_servicing.pdf

best regards

Edited 21 November, 200817 yr by wonkydonkey

Let me get this right, what you are saying is that if you use 507 and, as the service indicator say, it tells you to service at say 15k, that's okay?

BUT, if you had changed the oil 5k earlier, when it had 5k less of contamination wear acidity and soot, somehow it would have been an unsuitable oil to use?

I think there is a confusion here between what companies are SPECIFING to do a particular job- eg 501.01 is specified to be able to handle 10k, and oils that are specified to be able to cope with a longer interval which BY DEFINITION means they would cope with the first 10k of that interval, but instead of being at a point of 'your oil is shafteed' when you drain it, there would be a bigger safety margin/level of performance in the oil.

I can also remind readers of the common 1.8T sludge failures, ZF box failures, PD camshaft failures ALL associated with following the instructions regarding oil type and service interval provided by these 'big companies'.....

Talk to an engineer, not a marketer, is good motto. I recently had a meeting with Panolin Oils re some bio oil and he couldn't agree with me enough on the curse of extended and variable servicing and mfr's specifications.

Greg.

These are the 3 biggest oil companies in the world (Shell, Exxonmobil and BP) and due to their ties to VW have the most up to date and accurate info and if all three are saying don't use longlife III in PD engines on Time Distance servicing then that's enough for me. You must bare in mind that Castrol worked with VW to create the longlife oil and they supply all VW and Audi's oil both as Castrol and Quantum brand so they should know.

this is from the VW website also which may explain the difference between Time Distance and Variable a bit better

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/common/content/owners/Longlife_servicing.pdf

best regards

I'm going to stay with the VW507 and extra changes every 10k regardless.

I'm happier that way and my old cars ran for mega miles using Mobil 1, Millers etc with slightly over spec oil.

As greg says, better the oil it too good than not good enough.

Let me get this right, what you are saying is that if you use 507 and, as the service indicator say, it tells you to service at say 15k, that's okay?

BUT, if you had changed the oil 5k earlier, when it had 5k less of contamination wear acidity and soot, somehow it would have been an unsuitable oil to use?

I think there is a confusion here between what companies are SPECIFING to do a particular job- eg 501.01 is specified to be able to handle 10k, and oils that are specified to be able to cope with a longer interval which BY DEFINITION means they would cope with the first 10k of that interval, but instead of being at a point of 'your oil is shafteed' when you drain it, there would be a bigger safety margin/level of performance in the oil.

I can also remind readers of the common 1.8T sludge failures, ZF box failures, PD camshaft failures ALL associated with following the instructions regarding oil type and service interval provided by these 'big companies'.....

Talk to an engineer, not a marketer, is good motto. I recently had a meeting with Panolin Oils re some bio oil and he couldn't agree with me enough on the curse of extended and variable servicing and mfr's specifications.

Greg.

no mate you are missing my point

people are assuming that variable servicing is for all types of driving which it isn't and that the longlife oil is superior in every way but it isn't. As oil man tried to say it's just a longlife oil, it's designed for a certain type of driving style which it can be used without problem. VW know that the longlife oil doesn't protect the engine as well, that's why they have made the recommendations that i've linked before, to help you distiguish which on you should be on.

If you read the VW recommendations you will see that the variable service regime is for light duty, motorway miles at a constant speed and not many cold starts as this type of use is easy on the engine and on the oil and subjects both to minimal amounts of wear and contamination so the longlife servicing can be used and save the owner some money without any adverse affect on the engine.

The time distance servicing is for town driving, hard driving, frequent cold starts etc which is hard on the engine and on the oil and the longlife oil cannot protect the engine well enough. The 505.01 oil is the better oil for the pd engine and will protect the 3/4 cyl PD engine better for this type of driving, it's just that it can't handle long service intervals.

best regards

If you've got some evidence of the fact that it doesn't offer the same protection as the lower spec oil I'm all ears.

The longlife oil being 0w or 5w surely moves around the engine better when cold.

The long life oil can do between about 12k and 18k on variable servicing, so if you drive it hard you I can't see how you're going to have any problems if you change it at 9k.

I really must be missing something but a long life oil surely has to have extra additives in it to neutralise soot and acids over just a standard duration oil.

Can you explain how VW specify that ONLY 507.00 is used for town/local/fixed interval driving on a PD with DPF? The engine is identicle to a non-dpf, and you said that 507.00 can't protect the engine round town/fixed interval.

Also can you explain how cars come out of the factory with 507.00 and variable as standard, no matter who they are given to (the driving style/use)?

Finally, if 505.01 is a more robust oil, why does it have a lower specification number on the VW chart and why can't you use the '505.01 is superior' oil on variable servicing, seeing as you indicate you believe variable should lead to an easier life.

IMHO and IMHO of any I know in the trade, including the senior VW TPS rep, 507.00 is by far the superior oil and has a superior grade. Not to mention it's twice the price.

If you have any documented/hard evidence that 505.01 can do something that 507.00 can't, please share it. I don't mean oil recomendations, they are based on the minimum spec oil for a particular job and do not indicate if another superior oil may be suitable.

Cheers, Greg.

no mate you are missing my point

people are assuming that variable servicing is for all types of driving which it isn't and that the longlife oil is superior in every way but it isn't. As oil man tried to say it's just a longlife oil, it's designed for a certain type of driving style which it can be used without problem. VW know that the longlife oil doesn't protect the engine as well, that's why they have made the recommendations that i've linked before, to help you distiguish which on you should be on.

If you read the VW recommendations you will see that the variable service regime is for light duty, motorway miles at a constant speed and not many cold starts as this type of use is easy on the engine and on the oil and subjects both to minimal amounts of wear and contamination so the longlife servicing can be used and save the owner some money without any adverse affect on the engine.

The time distance servicing is for town driving, hard driving, frequent cold starts etc which is hard on the engine and on the oil and the longlife oil cannot protect the engine well enough. The 505.01 oil is the better oil for the pd engine and will protect the 3/4 cyl PD engine better for this type of driving, it's just that it can't handle long service intervals.

best regards

Can you explain how VW specify that ONLY 507.00 is used for town/local/fixed interval driving on a PD with DPF? The engine is identicle to a non-dpf, and you said that 507.00 can't protect the engine round town/fixed interval.

Also can you explain how cars come out of the factory with 507.00 and variable as standard, no matter who they are given to (the driving style/use)?

Finally, if 505.01 is a more robust oil, why does it have a lower specification number on the VW chart and why can't you use the '505.01 is superior' oil on variable servicing, seeing as you indicate you believe variable should lead to an easier life.

IMHO and IMHO of any I know in the trade, including the senior VW TPS rep, 507.00 is by far the superior oil and has a superior grade. Not to mention it's twice the price.

If you have any documented/hard evidence that 505.01 can do something that 507.00 can't, please share it. I don't mean oil recomendations, they are based on the minimum spec oil for a particular job and do not indicate if another superior oil may be suitable.

Cheers, Greg.

Can you explain how VW specify that ONLY 507.00 is used for town/local/fixed interval driving on a PD with DPF? The engine is identicle to a non-dpf, and you said that 507.00 can't protect the engine round town/fixed interval.

This is because the 507.00 oil is a low SAPS oil, it's a comprimise between the best protection of the engine and protection of the diesel particulate filter as the ash in the 505.01 oil would clog the filter. I never said that the 507.00 oil would not protect the PD engine, it just doesn't protect it as well.

Also can you explain how cars come out of the factory with 507.00 and variable as standard, no matter who they are given to (the driving style/use)?

You are right, all cars come with variable service as standard, however, when you get the car your dealer should discuss with you which service plan is suitable for you, this doesn't happen usually as the salesman has used the "low cost of ownership" method to help sell you the car. Scroll down to page 3 on this doc and it will explain it to you

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/common/content/owners/Longlife_servicing.pdf

Finally, if 505.01 is a more robust oil, why does it have a lower specification number on the VW chart and why can't you use the '505.01 is superior' oil on variable servicing, seeing as you indicate you believe variable should lead to an easier life.

It's not that variable servicing leads to an easier life, it's that if the car has an easier life it's suitable for variable. The 505.01 oil hasn't been designed for extended drain intervals and it is not a low SAPS oil, it's just designed for the Time Distance service (arduous use) for PD engines without particle filters, that's it, that's the only application 505.01 has.

If you have any documented/hard evidence that 505.01 can do something that 507.00 can't, please share it. I don't mean oil recomendations, they are based on the minimum spec oil for a particular job and do not indicate if another superior oil may be suitable.

Hey don't shoot the messenger. Oil recommendations are based on information gathered from the vehicle manufacturers, often by a company called OATS. VW say don't use longlife oil in PD engines without particle filters that are on Time Distance servicing, fact. Castrol, Shell, Mobil and Fuchs also say the same because they get they're info from VW.

The higher the VW number doesn't mean it's a superior oil that will supecede all the previous specs like the API or ACEA specs sometimes do, 506.01 is higher than 505.01 but you cant use the 506.01 in 505.01 applications. 507.00 is the variable oil specially desined with low SAPS content, it supercedes as many as it can but there are exceptions and the PD engines on Time Distance servicing without particle filters are one of them.

i'm not trying to have a go at you bud

i'm just trying to help you

best regards