F1 - Singapore

[Ender]

Ermm no.

Ok, so Massa wasn't at fault directly but he left and took the hose, half his team and almost took out Sutil (IIRC), a very dangerous situation for which he recieved a drive through.

The other two who did nothing wrong excpet to take fuel that they needed in what was a long pit closed window and recieve a greater penalty by means of a stop/go.

I bet the delay in the stewards decision was while they worked out how best they could manage the Ferrari interests.

As far as I am concerned they should have black flagged the team citing their pit control system as dangerous. How long before somone gets really hurt?

cynical rubbish mate, Firstly their where three penaltys to dish out hence some time taken, Ferrari's was the first given and they where also told to go to conventional means for the remainder of the race, We wont see the traffic light system again as it will be banned, One person gained from the duration of the penalty delays and that was rosberg it allowed him to open up a 14.2 second lead.

you can blame the FIA all you like mate, but the fact is this season has been litterd with mistakes by both title contenders, I get the feeling if Shuemy was still around or Alonso in a top team I feel the title would be decided already, its only dragged on this long because the Macca's and Ferrari are making silly mistakes, an experienced head will of been crowned champion already.

[redbaron]

Bel doesnt care about rules or fairness or anyone getting hurt, as long as Fiarrari win that is the only aim.

[Ender]

Bel doesnt care about rules or fairness or anyone getting hurt, as long as Fiarrari win that is the only aim.

Oh realy? so why are my post's litterd with "Stupid traffic light system", "It will be banned" and defending Massa but stating Clearly it was the system at fault?

Their are a few Bel's mate and your one of them period.

[gallego1968]

A great race for me as it was funny seeing Ferrari fall apart.

[VRStu]

Much as I enjoyed the Ferrari downfall I thought on the whole it was a cr@p race. Very little opportunity for overtaking and if it hadn't been for the safety car it would have been the usual follow my leader.

[MPM]

Bit of a rubbish race.

Glad to see Karma in full effect regarding Ferrari.

MPM

[jlwah]

Very little opportunity for overtaking . . . . .

It does seem odd (no, make that disappointing) that circuit designers can't seem to design tracks that allow or even encourage overtaking opportunities these days. We've had two brand new tracks for this season and neither offered any real opportunities for overtaking :thumbdwn:

We'd be better off with 16 races at Spa (but only if they put a barrier at the last chicane - can't have a Lewis circuit and an everyone else's circuit)

[moley]

Bernie seems to like these modern boring follow the leader circuits. Singapore along with other new circuits are boring, limited overtaking even if your car can run a lap 5 seconds faster than the car you are following. The safety car shuffles the pack and you have to second guess when the the safety car will be used. The good circuits, Spa, Monza, interlargos etc. show the good cars and drivers. Singapore, Hungary, Monaco, Valencia etc are a lottery and can favour the lower teams. which is OK, but are no where near as exciting as the fast circuits.

As for todays penalties, shutting the pit lane when the safety car is deployed is crazy, if your out of fuel you have to pit. Why did Massa not get a drive through or 25 second post race penalty At Valencia? He /the team did the same thing to today & got the penalty, probably because they he was so far behind.

Renault got it spot on, fuel Alonso light, come in early then get your team mate to put it in the wall just as most teams will pit so that the safety car comes out, brilliant:D

Kimi, fantastic!! In the wall again, perhaps the sight of Hamilton a couple places in front of you put you under intense pressure:rolleyes:

Three races to go, lets hope they are more exciting than this one.

[gadgetman]

I'm very surprised the commentators made no comments when Ferrari went back to using the lollipop.

IMHO the FIA must investigate this system and ban it. Many say there is a sensor linked to the fuelling rig. Messing with the rig is a penalty in itself, yet this system will always be flawed if this is true.

As soon as it's unlatched, the light would go green - and this assumes the refueller then clears the car. The lollipop acts as a clear barrier.

I also found it interesting that all the cars bar Mclaren's bumped over the track after turn 7(?). I suspect this was so there could be no doubt as to the fact that the bottom board hadnt been worn. Keen to know if any cars boards were found to have excessively worn beyond the limit.

[Ender]

Their is no senser, Each corner has a button as does the fuel man, when they all press the button a green light comes up on the pit wall the engineer then press's his button and the light goes green, its just a **** system that needs banning.

Massa got a pen because he had 15feet of fuel hose flapping about he didnt in velencia, the macca's have their titanium mounting bolts on brackets at the sides however most other teams apart from FI have them in the boards, hence the sparks from most but only dust from the Macca's and FI.

[moley]

I was under the impression that the Massa penalty today was for being released into the path of an oncoming car & not for the flailing fuel hose. This was the same offence he & Ferarri were only fined for in Valencia.

If the Ferrari system relys on the the four corner men & the refuller pressing a button when they are ready, then it must be the resposibility of the guy on the to make sure that it is safe to release the car. The FIA would have to make a rule to ban this system if they believe it is dangerous. Personally I think the whole pit lane refulling safety should be looked at as there seems to have been a lot pit crew guys injured this season.

[Ender]

I agree, I think its human nature i mean DC has been hurting engineers for years lol, However what could you do? say each car has to have a stationery period of atleast ten seconds?, this would mean fuel and re shoe and then wait for the lolly however it would negate the main overtaking feature in F1!, its not just the Fezza's that are bad as said DC is bad, infact most have had problems at regular times, I think the only way would be to add a 3rd dimension to a pit stop.

Dimension one- Re shoe

Dimension two- Re fuel

Thats how it is currently, however I would say this.

Dimension one- Turn off engine

Dimension two- re shoe

Dimension three fuel

Dimension one continued- restart engine

GOO

As it was said in Velancia, Massa was released into the "path" of a car, the stewards sais this time massa was released "Into" a car and trailed 15 feet of hose down the pitlane, their is the differance near miss before, blatent **** up this time..

[moley]

How about the rear jack man has to keep the car in the air until the fuel hose is released? If the driver tries to pull away too soon he'll spin the wheels in the air & the Jack man is behind him so there is litttle chance of him being injured.

[Ender]

ya that works also

[KenONeill]

I was under the impression that the Massa penalty today was for being released into the path of an oncoming car & not for the flailing fuel hose. This was the same offence he & Ferarri were only fined for in Valencia.

If you take your McSlimeball coloured glasses off you'll see the difference. In Singapore Filipe caused the other guy to brake, unlike in Valentia (and ironically it was the same car both times).

And as for Alonso being good, he wasn't good, just lucky!

[Ender]

Nah Alonso is good very good, however their was luck right time right place and all!

[moley]

Just got back to this thread as I've been away all week, Ron sent me down to Marinello to spy on Ferraris' pit lane light system, he wants to use it next season:D

If you take your McSlimeball coloured glasses off you'll see the difference. In Singapore Filipe caused the other guy to brake, unlike in Valentia (and ironically it was the same car both times).

You've jumped to a conclusion and landed wide of the mark there Ken, I'm sorry to disappoint you but I am not a Mclaren fan. Any way if you could take off your 'I love Felipe hat' for a moment, Massas' penalty in Valencia was for 'being released into the path of a car' in Singapore the penalty was for 'an unsafe release' In both cases another car had to take some action to avoid a collition.

I am not taking sides in the Mclaren / Ferrari arguments, I just like to see that all drivers & teams receive a fair deal. The current F1 circus appears to be under pressure from the big teams / manufactures & money talks. I would prefer F1 to returned to the days of Lotus, BRM, Brabham, Tyrrell, March, Eagle Westlake, Cooper etc, rather than todays BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Honda, Toyota etc.

[Delcac]

We should have a Briskoda team in there. We may have to put up the Freedom subscription to fund it though.

[steve75]

Ferrari will use lollipop for remaining races but will use the lights system again for '09 season

[andy1max]

Funnily enough that announcment has been made not long after Ecclestone responded to the Ferrari presidents attack of singapore...

As for overtaking Monaco doesnt have much of that either but its great to watch IMO. I know Valencia was a shock for the people that made it as they were intending it to be an overtaking track, however i think it is alot down to the cars not being able to because of aerodynamics, certainly the Mclaren struggles to overtake cars because it cant get close enough. The only tracks there is lots of overtaking on have very long straights. Hopefully the new aero regulations may make things a little better next season.