At what point do X5 drivers goto the school of kn0bs?

The answer to your question is - the moment they take delivery.

Ohhh c'mon surf, don't you know you are supposed to lick BMW drivers boots clean and offer a tribute everytime he fancies coming round your way.

Pink shirt and pinstripe suit eh, sounds like a banker or an estate agent, I know you couldn't cos you had kids onboard but it's a shame you didn't blood him a bit, I can see it now, he arrives in the office holding a tissue to his nose, the telephonist asks....what happened to you? oh some driver punched me in the nose and to add insult to injury he was driving a Skoda of all things.

I discovered this morning that it's not just owners of 'private' X5s - the Police X5 attending the accident on the M56 spur road this morning nearly caused several more accidents by weaving in and out of all the traffic. Not sure why this was necessary, as the route he took gave him a clear run of hard shoulder all the way (on at one junction, off at the next). Must be something in the owners' manual... :confused:

Ey, calm down!

ive just found this thread, came acros similar on the M25 a few weeks ago, a Irish lorry driver decided coming up to a one lane contraflow that it would use the outside lane (illegal) at 2 in the morning cos the traffic ahead was stop start. as the traffic went down to one lane pushed its way in forcing the car which was rightfully in lane one and had been sitting there patiently to move off to hard shoulder the driver beeped his horn and further up the contraflow the irish lorry stops and the driver gets out. I just set my cameraphone to record from where i was and took down both reg numbers. the driver in the car was pretty old while the lorry driver was in his 40-50's. highway maintence staff standback and watch and cars behind start to beep and at this point the lorry driver blows a fuse and starts throwing cones about and threatening to kill the driver, at same point more and more people are getting out of their vehicles to watch him and he bottles it and jumps back in his vehicle.

Half the cause of road rage is the roads are getting to clogged and drivers do not have any courtesy these days.

I discovered this morning that it's not just owners of 'private' X5s - the Police X5 attending the accident on the M56 spur road this morning nearly caused several more accidents by weaving in and out of all the traffic. Not sure why this was necessary, as the route he took gave him a clear run of hard shoulder all the way (on at one junction, off at the next). Must be something in the owners' manual... :confused:

Yeah i noticed something similar with the police (volvos not X5's) on the M4 the other week. It was a pretty big accident so 2 police cars, an ambulance and a fire engine showed up while i was queueing. The ambulance and fire engine both shot down the hard shoulder which was clear, while both the police cars weaved through the two lanes of static traffic. Is there any particular reason for them doing this? Seems like a time waster when there could be serious injuries etc.

Off topic i know.

Yeah i noticed something similar with the police (volvos not X5's) on the M4 the other week. It was a pretty big accident so 2 police cars, an ambulance and a fire engine showed up while i was queueing. The ambulance and fire engine both shot down the hard shoulder which was clear, while both the police cars weaved through the two lanes of static traffic. Is there any particular reason for them doing this? Seems like a time waster when there could be serious injuries etc.

Off topic i know.

It's a few years back, but I was stuck in near-stationary traffic on the M1 caused by a truck fire just North of Nottingham (annoyingly, I needed a junction about 400m past the fire). There were 2 fire engines escorted by Police cars came down through stationary traffic between lanes 2 and 3. Given where they were needed "on scene", and that it was about empty, I couldn't help wondering why they didn't use the hard shoulder.

Any Police officer care to comment (seriously) on the reasoning for this?

It's drivers in general.

Poor road manners,lack of basic skills etc etc.

I can't believe how common it is nowadays for people content not to indicate and do things like park on the zig zags by a zebra crossing as two examples (happens a lot by a bank near to us the zig zag parking)

Maybe its because the only traffic offence police seem to concentrate on is speeding.Think far more accidents are caused by drivers not obeying the basics of driving as opposed to speeding

At the same time they buy the obligitary X5 private plate that every single X5 in the country seems to have.

With that logic, the same can be said of ST or VRS owners

I have the wheelbrace in the spare compartment under the front passenger seat for just such incidences, See if he had shouted like that to me, i wudn't be long softening his cough!!!! :smashfrea

Which isnt advisable. Firstly for legal reasons of being tooled up if caught, and secondly, just because you have something to use how do you know the other person wont? What if they get it off you? What (applicable in many cities) they are armed with a knife or gun? By laying down the gauntlet, are you SURE you'd come out on top, or never make it home again? If you did win, is it really worth a stretch inside for?

Personally I'd rather live.

Back to the OP, you indicated to advise the driver you were to manoeuvre, but as per the HWC, it's down to you to ensure it's safe and OK to complete it, rather than telling the driver you're coming out and making it their responsibility. That's how it works here. In Europe however indicating is telling not asking!

Report the driver for road rage with the police and forget about it.

With that logic, the same can be said of ST or VRS owners

Which isnt advisable. Firstly for legal reasons of being tooled up if caught, and secondly, just because you have something to use how do you know the other person wont? What if they get it off you? What (applicable in many cities) they are armed with a knife or gun? By laying down the gauntlet, are you SURE you'd come out on top, or never make it home again? If you did win, is it really worth a stretch inside for?

Personally I'd rather live.

Back to the OP, you indicated to advise the driver you were to manoeuvre, but as per the HWC, it's down to you to ensure it's safe and OK to complete it, rather than telling the driver you're coming out and making it their responsibility. That's how it works here. In Europe however indicating is telling not asking!

Report the driver for road rage with the police and forget about it.

In my eyes it was safe to pull out as there was about 1 1/2 car lengths between the x5 and the car in front of him. Have since reported it but highly un-likely anything will happen about it.

In my eyes it was safe to pull out as there was about 1 1/2 car lengths between the x5 and the car in front of him.

And how much of that would be the X5's breaking distance?

As a full time driver, I see just about everything. If someone's indicating and it's not safe to let them pull out, I wont. And if someone tries to take away my breaking space, then they're get the horn and a gesture to tell them they're being naughty.

TBH I think your post is simply red mist about the fact another driver didnt let you out. If I plonked you in London for a drive, you'd have to get used to that PDQ. It happens, not all drivers are courteous.

In the nicest possible way, perhaps some defensive driving lessons may be of use?

While his reaction was bang out of order (and was rightfully reported to the police), I'm wondering if this was the trigger for it all:

In my eyes it was safe to pull out as there was about 1 1/2 car lengths between the x5 and the car in front of him.

If he's left a 1 1/2 car gap between him and the car in front (which is roughly 6m road space) and you put a car in that gap, you've reduced the gap to at best 2m and probably more realistically 1/2 to 1m so you're going to force the following car to brake. In your eyes it was safe ... in his eyes it was not and giving him no option but to take evasive action is going to upset him!

I'm also not sure "continuing your manouevre" despite him being half way alongside your car is going to help the situation either - would braking have been a better option? Would slowing earlier and slotting in behind him have been better? What if he hadn't braked and he'd ploughed into your car injuring your children? Doesn't really bear thinking about.

The big problem with road rage is that it escalates out of control extremely quickly and you need to identify when things are not going well and nip it in the bud to neutralise the situation. Conflict does no-one any good and being injured/dead and right isn't a great consolation.

Chris

And how much of that would be the X5's breaking distance?

As a full time driver, I see just about everything. If someone's indicating and it's not safe to let them pull out, I wont. And if someone tries to take away my breaking space, then they're get the horn and a gesture to tell them they're being naughty.

TBH I think your post is simply red mist about the fact another driver didnt let you out. If I plonked you in London for a drive, you'd have to get used to that PDQ. It happens, not all drivers are courteous.

In the nicest possible way, perhaps some defensive driving lessons may be of use?

I've spent over 10years commuting and travelling around London either by Train/Car/Cycle and am fully aware of what driving in london is like.

All he had todo was lift off the accelerator a touch to give himself back his breaking distance. I could see the cars behind him in my mirror and could see that if I had of continued I would have been driving in a bus lane and would have possibly picked up some points or a fine, the cars behind him weren't even leaving a car's length between them and would have proved more of a problem to pull out into.

For those that know me, will also know that I am a not an aggresive driver/person and although the halo does slip from time to time I always Thank people who let me out in traffic and this would have been one of those times. I always drive and treat other road users like I would like to be treated.

While his reaction was bang out of order (and was rightfully reported to the police), I'm wondering if this was the trigger for it all:

If he's left a 1 1/2 car gap between him and the car in front (which is roughly 6m road space) and you put a car in that gap, you've reduced the gap to at best 2m and probably more realistically 1/2 to 1m so you're going to force the following car to brake. In your eyes it was safe ... in his eyes it was not and giving him no option but to take evasive action is going to upset him!

I'm also not sure "continuing your manouevre" despite him being half way alongside your car is going to help the situation either - would braking have been a better option? Would slowing earlier and slotting in behind him have been better? What if he hadn't braked and he'd ploughed into your car injuring your children? Doesn't really bear thinking about.

The big problem with road rage is that it escalates out of control extremely quickly and you need to identify when things are not going well and nip it in the bud to neutralise the situation. Conflict does no-one any good and being injured/dead and right isn't a great consolation.

Chris

For the 1st part of the journey he wasn't leaving a cars length of space in front of him so when the bus lane came closer and he slowed and created a gap I made the decision to pull out. I don't feel like he had to take evaisive action and it certainly wasn't a dangerous move until he decided to overtake me after I had started to pull out. Once I had started to pull out what could I do?? I could have pulled back into the bus lane into the parked cars? or continued in the 2nd lane. Plenty of people make this manuvure and plenty of people then say Thanks which helps to keep calm on the road, Yes I get annoyed if people cut me up but then theres usually more that 1 1/2 car lengths between me and the car in front.

I wasn't the one who tried to overtake a car that was in front of him by pulling into the 2nd lane of the oncoming traffic then swerving into another car. I dont see how trying to overtake me was taking evaisive action when he was behind me when I started to pull out.

I agree that road rage does escalate very quickly (I have been there when alot younger) and can see that from his point of veiw he may have considered it to be a bad move but should he have then tried to overtake?

No-body is perfect and we all make mistakes, that's why when I set out on a journey I make sure I have plenty of time to complete the journey and turning up at my destination stress free and still on time.

I'm sorry, but I'm with Scooby Chris on this.

As I read the original post, from HIS viewpoint, the road narrows with a bus lane on the inside, he's already positioned himself in the outside lane ready and you decide at the last minute to change lanes, misjudge his position on the road, flick on the indicator and and pull across in front of him.

Road rage is unforgivable, but in similar circumstances I'd probably have hit the brakes and horn simultaneously and called you every name under the sun. (Regardless of how I was dressed or what vehicle I was driving)

I'm sorry, but I'm with Scooby Chris on this.

As I read the original post, from HIS viewpoint, the road narrows with a bus lane on the inside, he's already positioned himself in the outside lane ready and you decide at the last minute to change lanes, misjudge his position on the road, flick on the indicator and and pull across in front of him.

Road rage is unforgivable, but in similar circumstances I'd probably have hit the brakes and horn simultaneously and called you every name under the sun. (Regardless of how I was dressed or what vehicle I was driving)

Fair enough, You are entitled to your opinion but there was no need to hit the brakes and I only pulled out at the last minute as there wasn't a gap there for me to pull into earlier

Yes I get annoyed if people cut me up but then theres usually more that 1 1/2 car lengths between me and the car in front.

If there was less than 1 1/2 car lengths would that make a difference?

I wasn't the one who tried to overtake a car that was in front of him by pulling into the 2nd lane of the oncoming traffic then swerving into another car. I dont see how trying to overtake me was taking evaisive action when he was behind me when I started to pull out.

Just a thought, but are you sure he tried to overtake? The gap you're going for is tight at 6m. You're both travelling at 30mph (13m/s). If you happened to lift off slightly (as is natural) when you're checking mirrors, etc for the manouevre then that gap is moving away from you and at even only slowing to 25mph (11m/s) he will be practically alongside you. Continuing the manouevre despite him being alongside you is pure suicide imho and I think it is that decision which really upset him....

No-body is perfect and we all make mistakes, that's why when I set out on a journey I make sure I have plenty of time to complete the journey and turning up at my destination stress free and still on time.

Absolutely right and as Oscar Wilde said, "Experience is the name we give our mistakes" If you were to replay this tomorrow, what would you do differently?

Chris

The little test I give myself in unpleasant traffic situations is, what would I do if the ‘other’ car had a blue light on the top? If the answer is to do exactly what I had just done, then I think I would probably be in the right (well in my little world) if I would have altered my behaviour, then I would have to admit I was probably in the wrong.

Amanda, by that test you would stop and wait indefinately, rather than signal and hope someone'd let you out!

Amanda, by that test you would stop and wait indefinately, rather than signal and hope someone'd let you out!

Nope. Showing I was reasonably assertive would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

Nope. Showing I was reasonably assertive would not be a bad thing in my opinion.

Maybe it's just a question of English. In this sort of situation, and with these sorts of gaps, I'd signal and look for a "go-ahead" signal from the guy behind me (but not treat him slowing factionally as that signal). Does that sound like what you meant?

Maybe it's just a question of English. In this sort of situation, and with these sorts of gaps, I'd signal and look for a "go-ahead" signal from the guy behind me (but not treat him slowing factionally as that signal). Does that sound like what you meant?

I don’t mean anything specifically. I used the word ‘reasonably’ to imply just that. Slowly pushing out into traffic is stupid if the traffic is moving quickly, but may not be if the traffic is moving slowly. I use my judgement and might apply my ‘blue light’ test to the situation

If there was less than 1 1/2 car lengths would that make a difference?

Just a thought, but are you sure he tried to overtake? The gap you're going for is tight at 6m. You're both travelling at 30mph (13m/s). If you happened to lift off slightly (as is natural) when you're checking mirrors, etc for the manouevre then that gap is moving away from you and at even only slowing to 25mph (11m/s) he will be practically alongside you. Continuing the manouevre despite him being alongside you is pure suicide imho and I think it is that decision which really upset him....

Absolutely right and as Oscar Wilde said, "Experience is the name we give our mistakes" If you were to replay this tomorrow, what would you do differently?

Chris

If there was less than 1 1/2 car lengths or I though the gap was too smal I would have slowed with my right hand indicator on hoping someone else would have let me in, meanwhile I may have picked up a fine/points for being in a bus lane and if no-one let me out I would have had to stop and would be left sitting in the left hand lane waiting for someone to let me out. (which would probably have been some time as the road is a 40mph limit and traffic usually flows alot faster down the outside lane.

If I had to replay this tomorrow, What would I do? I would have raced away from the lights in the inside lane about 1/4mile before the bus lane to get ahead of the x5 and the car in front and pull out in front of them.

Thing is, it was rush hour, traffic flows reasonably quickly along that road and at 40mph not many drivers think about leaving a 2second gap between them and the car in front, I know I don't think it all the time, people getting to work are usually in a rush and can't stand it when someone pulls out and puts them another car length behind.

Thing is, everyone needs to chill out when driving, rushing to get to places isn't good. In my 30mile journey to work if I drive with the traffic upto the NSL I get to work NO more than 3minutes after driving faster and trying to cut through traffic and undertake etc. All you are doing is getting yourself wound up and possible endangering yours and other peoples lifes.

X5 = more money than sense.

BTW what's that new BMW X5 stylie car I've seen around that looks just like its had a side-on collision?

bloke sounds like a total muppet :thumbdwn: probably worth reporting, if for no other reason than to save him from a proper shoeing when he really does does pick on the wrong bloke...

and why would you want to do that?

mark