Hello techy wizards, i have a question for you.

We are a small bussiness currently running two servers, one windows server hosting our sage accounts software and filemaker database and an apple server hosting our fileserver, email and backup.

The problem we have is how do we effectively back these up? At the moment the two hard disks in the mac server backup to their own external hdd using super duper, one hdd has the OS etc and the other contains all of the shared files. The windows server also backs up via a batch script to this hdd. We also have a mac mini running os x server that acts as an IP failover should the main mac server go down.

We currently have no off site or proper backup policy and we are increasingly worried about theft or fire not to mention hardware failure. What would be the best solution for us and give us the most protection? Bearing in mind we don't have a massive IT budget and want things as simple as possible, while i might understand most of it the other staff wont.

On site get a small NAS box that has some processor in it with 4 disks running RAID 5.

Offsite

Either

- Tape back this up (some have an option) store in a firesafe onsite and offsite

- Buy some offsite storage space (many places sell it) and give access to their backup server from your network (NAS). If your NAS doesn't run a real OS that can push the data you can let the backup server pull it from the NAS.

When you backup make sure the data is encrypted.

You could store all of the NAS stuff on an EFS or just encrypt on transmission when you send the data to the offsite place.

EDIT have some links:

Backup Technology - Company Profile

SMB Sector / Systems and Data Resilience - not just Disaster Recovery! - Adam Continuity

Online Backup | Remote Backup | Offsite Data Storage

I'm assuming you don't have huge amounts of data (eg you've got a few GB or irreplaceable data ) , so this is a relatively cheap way of doing it.

Edited 27 November, 200817 yr by cheezemonkhai

If you back up to tape and keep off-site, make sure it's encrypted or otherwise protected, and has a storage policy. DAMHIKT...

On site get a small NAS box that has some processor in it with 4 disks running RAID 5.

Any recommendations?

RND4450-100EUS ... scan link keeps dying sorry..

Might be a bit expensive, but this is what we are using in the Studio here at the evil empire to back up our Video data from recording shoots, mainly because we have to transport the data over to another studio for editing.

You could always just get a quality storage case in, select some drives and build it yourself ..... probably more cost effective.

Edited 27 November, 200817 yr by Fluffmeister

What sort of budget you talking Alex (Feel free to PM)

RND4450-100EUS ... scan link keeps dying sorry..

Might be a bit expensive, but this is what we are using in the Studio here at the evil empire to back up our Video data from recording shoots, mainly because we have to transport the data over to another studio for editing.

You could always just get a quality storage case in, select some drives and build it yourself ..... probably more cost effective.

I specifically don't like that due to the fact that last time I saw one of netgears items they used a non standard File System and you needed drivers for it.

I'd suggest a dedicated NAS box or a small PC purpose designed to work as a NAS device are the ways forward.

EDIT:

Something like this:

2TB Buffalo Terastation Pro2 NAS, Gigabit & 2 x USB 2.0, 7200 RPM, RAID 10 (TS-H2.0TGL/R5) - Scan.co.uk

Coupled with a really cheap atom or via C7 mini itx PC to just shove the data to the offsite back up seems pretty reasonable to me.

If you have problems convincing people just look up the stats for how many companies recover from data loss after a fire when they don't have a backup. Last time I looked after 3 years it was pretty low (less than 10% i think)

Edited 27 November, 200817 yr by cheezemonkhai

Running NTFS, I have my feet on it right now while I am copying last nights work over, we are using them with e-sata and they are quick enough and robust enough ... at the moment. Literally plug and play, the only issue I have had with them is that sometimes they bang heads with the Black Magic control unit for the video cameras.

the buffalo's are solid enough though as NAS devices, and Alex could even be cheeky and drop a Windows Home server in with mirrored disks if it was staying onsite, not sure if the mac server's run time machine but that can be pointed to a home server as a time machine location.

Good to see they let you run NTFS at last then, although I wonder if they can do an EXT or similar file system. Previously if you set them up on RAID you had to use their FS.

I just think you're better off paying for something that is the right tool for the job as if you lose your data that is it, no second chance without a solid backup.

I agree 100%, but sometimes the right tool can be out of an organisations price range.

just robocopy all the windows stuff over to a spare box with mirrored drives ... cheap as chips then

How much data are we talking here??

Currently around 300gb of data plus an extra few gb for the server os and settings etc, although that will probably be considerably reduced when we have a clear out when i reinstall our mac server next week.

I'd suggest that an offsite server is best for that.

You could just stage everything on mirrored discs on the MAC and get it to push to the backup server nightly if you can't afford a NAS.

On the grand scale of things I'd say that £1500 for the whole system for the first year plus ongoing costs for the backup after that would not be much for a companies essential data.

Just look at it this way, if your company lost the accounting data for 1 week how much could you lose? If it's more than the cost of this then as a business decision it is a no brainier.

I'd say that is very low cost bearing in mind most storage enclosures start around the £10k mark

I'd suggest that an offsite server is best for that.

You could just stage everything on mirrored discs on the MAC and get it to push to the backup server nightly if you can't afford a NAS.

On the grand scale of things I'd say that £1500 for the whole system for the first year plus ongoing costs for the backup after that would not be much for a companies essential data.

Just look at it this way, if your company lost the accounting data for 1 week how much could you lose? If it's more than the cost of this then as a business decision it is a no brainier.

I'd say that is very low cost bearing in mind most storage enclosures start around the £10k mark

Yeah but thats very dependant on their internet connection..

Admittedly im not really aware of the current "over the 'net" backup solutions.. it would only really be viable if there was client-side dedupe etc.. (im only saying this because i was at a symantec yesterday being demo'ed puredisk lol)

If the backup system is clever (and most are as they want to reduce their bandwidth bill) they will do something along the lines of an R-Synch and once the initial copy is saved over they just save the changes.

That means after the initial weekend of much pain, the backup shouldn't be too bad.

Just my IMHO.

Problem on the debupe systems, again IMHO, is that starts costing mega money (compared to an SME budget) to do it all properly.

Cheap option

You need 2 external hard drives to back up to.

One is always off site so the worst you loose is a weeks work.

Each night back up to the hard drive in the office & every friday take that weeks off site & return the other hard drive on monday for that weeks work, thus alternating the hard drives.

On site put the hard drive on a long lead off the PC & hidden. odds are if someone breaks in they will simply unplug the machine & nick it but not trace the wires back.

I use a similar system & the hard drive is hidden in a small fireproof safe from B&Q & concealed somewhere in the office where it would take an age to find.You can also drill & bolt these to the floor, most thieves want to be in & out

Im scheptical of off site storage by a third party

I know someone who had their web site back up stored off site & about the time they needed a back when their site crashed the storage server failed "allegidly" & the people storing had no back up & yes it caused a massive problem that took months to sort as all the products had to be re loaded.

ALSO with any backup system, occasionaly try & retrieve something to check it actually works. It might work when its installed but how often do people actually check