Up until 1997 when I took an advanced driving course and test, I always used to indicate (correctly) to pull out into lane 2 (dual carriageway) and lanes 2 & 3 (3 lane road), when pulling back into the inside lanes I would indicate this intention as well. Whilst having a lesson my instructor said to me that there was no need to indicate a move from lane 2 to lane 1 on a dual carriageway, as you should (quite correctly) be in lane 1 unless you are overtaking. Conversely on a 3 lane road, you should always indicate your intention when you move to an inner lane.

My question is:

What is the accepted way/best practice for the use of indicators when moving to an inner lane?

In europe its generally accepted that to move from lane to lane in either direction you indicate first. Follow a car on the French Autoroutes, Spanish Autopistas and German Autobahns and they will indictate to move into any lane. In the UK it seems to be an accepted practice to only indicate if you are moving from the inside lane to 2 or 3.

Personally ,when changing lanes , I indicate about 4secs behind car in front ,give at least 4 flashes , mirror ,look over shoulder ,then if safe pull out .

After passing , I give approx 4 secsto pass ,then indicate left (just in case some on inside lane has ideas of pulling out ).After about 4 flashes , i check over left shoulder ,and left mirror and if safe pull over .

Agree ,that you should be looking at getting into inside lane at all times ,but these days , can you trust numpties inside you to realise that - as my driving instructor said many moons ago - always drive to the lowest common denominator which is looking to see if idiot inside has not realised you're intentions .

Strangely enough , when learning to drive ,my instructor insisted on indication being made to pull out or pull in on a two carriage way road -on the above principles .

Theory being that no one could say that you had not indicated you're intention ,and that anyone seeing this should wait to see if you had seen them .But this was int the days of "if in doubt ,DON'T " -as opposedto today's attitude of "I can see you -THEREFORE YOU MUST BE ABLE TO see me "

What is the accepted way/best practice for the use of indicators when moving to an inner lane?

I think it depends who you listen to!

My personal take is that there's no need to signal unless there is someone around who can directly benefit. There's 3 scenarios I can think of off the top of my head where I would...

1. If there's someone in lane 1 who may be considering a move to lane 2 and I'm in lane 3 looking to return to lane 2

2. If I need to create/enlarge a gap, eg to blend into a queue of traffic

3. If there's someone fast approaching behind me who I want to acknowledge I've seen and let them know I'll move out ut of their way at the first opportunity

As I said, different folks have different ideas so don't take that as gospel

Chris

Personally ,when changing lanes , I indicate about 4secs behind car in front ,give at least 4 flashes , mirror ,look over shoulder ,then if safe pull out .

I'm hoping you check your mirror before signaling too and not one of those people that 'make' a space with their indicators...

Personally I indicate between all lanes, though I usually use just a couple of flashes when pulling back in.

i was told there was no need to indicate to get back to lane 1 and did this on my advance test as all traffic should be in lane 1 apart from overtaking and once finished overtaking should be back in lane 1.

I think more should be done to educate drivers of difference between middlehogging lane 2 and where they should be than worry to much about indicating back to lane 1.

I do however do indicate back into lane 1 in a lorry or if ive had to go from lane 1 to 3 to get past a middle hogger.

I always indicate when changing lanes to the left or to the right as it lets the other drivers know what you are intending to do. The indicators on the Octy II are good for this as touching to the left or right gives three flashes, if there is a line of cars in the lane I want to move into I leave the indicator on and wait for a suitable gap or someone to let you out.

The indicators on the Octy II are good for this as touching to the left or right gives three flashes

Do you begin the manouevre while the indicators are still flashing?

Chris

Signals should benefit other road users and not confuse or mislead.

If you apply the above to every situation you cannot go far wrong.

At learner level I teach to signal for every lane change on all road types.

The correct routine for changing lane is as follows:

Check mirrors, consider a signal, check mirrors again to check other traffic is responding to your signal, change lane if it is safe. You need to carry out at least 2 separate mirror checks before changing lane.

For fleet and advanced drivers I suggest that signalling back into lane 1 is not required with no traffic close behind to benifit. The vehicle you have overtaken would not benefit from a signal to the left as they expect you to return to the left after overtaking.

On multiple lane roads with more than 2 lanes signals are vital as two vehicles could be aiming for the same lane.

An example of a dangerous signal would be to start to signal as a vehicle is approaching to overtake you, if you slap on a signal the other vehicle may panic brake. Also note that signalling doesnt give you the right to change lane regardless.

Unfortunately very few drivers have had any formal training on dual carriageways or motorways. Learners are not allowed on motorways which is completely stupid. I can take a pupil to the test centre in the morning who legally must be supervised, they pass and in the afternoon they can go out on the motorway on their own. It is an accident waiting to happen.

Indicating has become habitual for me, but I won't do it if there's no-one there to actually observe it and be made aware of it. Usually when changing lanes in a 70 limit, there is someone there to observe what you're doing (else why would you be changing lanes).

The only scenario I imagine it not being needed was those junctions where you go into the central reservation area first, and cross the opposite carriageway to go to your right. Not that common a junction, but if it were deserted I wouldn't indicate to perform that manouvere.

The correct routine for changing lane is as follows:

Check mirrors, consider a signal, check mirrors again to check other traffic is responding to your signal, change lane if it is safe. You need to carry out at least 2 separate mirror checks before changing lane.

I'd agree with this and also recommend a shoulder check to accompany the second mirror check just to be sure nothing's been sat in your blindspot.

Do you teach holding the signal on through the manoeuvre or cancelling it as you begin the manouevre (as it's served its purpose?) ... or maybe somewhere inbetween?

Chris

Indicating has become habitual for me, but I won't do it if there's no-one there to actually observe it and be made aware of it. Usually when changing lanes in a 70 limit, there is someone there to observe what you're doing (else why would you be changing lanes).

I think there is a distinction between observing a signal and benefitting from a signal and I believe that a signal should be used to convey your intentions to a targetted audience.

For example, if I'm driving along in lane 1 and I see a car fast approaching me, I'm expecting him to overtake so I don't benefit from his signal and it will likely not register in my plan. If however, he's fast approaching me and I'm closing on another car that I want to overtake, I'll be signalling for the benefit of the car behind me and not the one in front. I'm still assuming he'll overtake me but in this scenario I'm looking for an acknowledgement of my signal which may be him putting his indicator on, moving out, or maybe a flash of his headlights or leaning on his horn.

Very difficult to put into words, but easy to explain on a drive

Chris

I'd agree with this and also recommend a shoulder check to accompany the second mirror check just to be sure nothing's been sat in your blindspot.

Do you teach holding the signal on through the manoeuvre or cancelling it as you begin the manouevre (as it's served its purpose?) ... or maybe somewhere inbetween?

Chris

I don't actually recommend a shoulder check, if you use your mirrors effectively you should know what is in your blind spot. If you tell a learner to carry out a blind spot check at 70mph you will end up on your roof. :eek:

A quick sidewards glance to check the blind spot rather than a deep shoulder check is fine.

As for the signal keep it on until you have completed your manoeuvre. It is a DSA favourite to fail people for cancelling signals too early during driving tests.

i only shoulder check on the motorway as the mirrors can easily miss something moving from lane 3 to 2 and with cars often travelling up to double the limit things can change rather quickly. on a two lane road (dual carraigeway) providing you have been using your mirrors frequently etc you should see all traffic coming up on you without having to do a shoulder check. When you do need to pull out checking your mirror signalling at least 3 flashes to show others your intentions (and have time to react) by the time you get into the o/s lane your indicators should have flashed at least 5 times. however if no one is about why put them on as no one else is going to benefit, just like no one will benefit from your indication going back to lane one (where all cars should be unless overtaking).

We should always indicate whenever changing lanes

Why?

You assume there is no one there

What about the ***** burning up the sliproad to join the carriageway?

Can you all say that you have never pulled into lane one and not seen a car?

I think its crazy for the advanced drivers to be taught this way

What about the ***** burning up the sliproad to join the carriageway?

Why would you move back to lane 1 if you're approaching a slip road where there's potential for cars to be joining the main carriageway?

Chris

I don't actually recommend a shoulder check, if you use your mirrors effectively you should know what is in your blind spot. If you tell a learner to carry out a blind spot check at 70mph you will end up on your roof. :eek:

The potential is there for cars doing similar speeds to be sat in your blind spot though and not appear in mirror checks at all, as well as fast moving bikes. Seems a small check to do, to guarantee the way is clear Hopefully by the time you've finished with them, a learner is capable of a shoulder check without crashing

As for the signal keep it on until you have completed your manoeuvre. It is a DSA favourite to fail people for cancelling signals too early during driving tests.

I was hoping you would say "it depends"

Chris

I tend to indicate more often than not, especially when moving out. I tend to let the indicator flash 3/4/5 times before I even start the manoeuvre, even if I've determined that the space is clear. This is in case people from lane 3 are considering moving back in to lane 2.

I very rarely, if ever, indicate when moving back in to lane 1 after overtaking lorries.

We should always indicate whenever changing lanes

Why?

You assume there is no one there

What about the ***** burning up the sliproad to join the carriageway?

Can you all say that you have never pulled into lane one and not seen a car?

I think its crazy for the advanced drivers to be taught this way

If you are using your mirrors properly then you will know if someone is there, when you approch a slip road you prepare yourself for a car appearing in case it does. Do you have an advance entitlement? if not i suggest you try doing one and then you can see how poorly taught most drivers are and yes i thought the same as you when i started doing mine and (with search feature above) you will see some of my concerns on this site of what i thought was wrong or stupid, but in time, along with other driving courses i have appreciated the reasons for things and have adapted on what ive been taught and blended bits from other courses to make me a better driver.

If you are using your mirrors properly then you will know if someone is there, when you approch a slip road you prepare yourself for a car appearing in case it does. Do you have an advance entitlement? if not i suggest you try doing one and then you can see how poorly taught most drivers are and yes i thought the same as you when i started doing mine and (with search feature above) you will see some of my concerns on this site of what i thought was wrong or stupid, but in time, along with other driving courses i have appreciated the reasons for things and have adapted on what ive been taught and blended bits from other courses to make me a better driver.

Ahh, sorry Mr perfect.

I didnt know there were drivers out there that are so good and never, ever made a mistake, and always know if a cars in their blind spot, so can indicate whenever they like, or not, as in this discussion.

Ahh, sorry Mr perfect.

I didnt know there were drivers out there that are so good and never, ever made a mistake, and always know if a cars in their blind spot, so can indicate whenever they like, or not, as in this discussion.

Never said I was perfect, but certainly hell of a lot better driver to before i took up advance driving, no one is perfect as much as anyone would like to think they are (including me) driving is always going to be a learning curve. IF you check your mirrors properly and regualrly and are watching what is going on around you YOU will know if there is ANYTHING near you that YOU need to indicate for, if NOTHING is there then what is the point of indicating and IF there is something in your blindspot (which from what im gathering from your post is what you going on about) then you will see them in your IPSGA and indicate, but as an advance driver you are taught not to sit there in peoples blind spots and to leave enough space in front of you as an escape lane for those that suddenly might need it from poor planning and so if the vehicle in front does suddendly pull out/brake/etc you have a safe stopping distance and time to react. The thing that myself and others (scoobychris) are trying to point out is "what is the point of indicating if there is no one there to benefit?" and also as stated in the highway code once you have finished your overtake in lane 2 or 3 you therefore move back to lane one where you should be unless overtaking the vehicle in front. Therefore the vehcile you gone past knows you are going back into lane one so therefore why indicate? but i guessing you one of these morons that as soon as they get on the motorway go straight to lane 2 and sit there at 65.

Never said I was perfect, but certainly hell of a lot better driver to before i took up advance driving, no one is perfect as much as anyone would like to think they are (including me) driving is always going to be a learning curve. IF you check your mirrors properly and regualrly and are watching what is going on around you YOU will know if there is ANYTHING near you that YOU need to indicate for, if NOTHING is there then what is the point of indicating and IF there is something in your blindspot (which from what im gathering from your post is what you going on about) then you will see them in your IPSGA and indicate, but as an advance driver you are taught not to sit there in peoples blind spots and to leave enough space in front of you as an escape lane for those that suddenly might need it from poor planning and so if the vehicle in front does suddendly pull out/brake/etc you have a safe stopping distance and time to react. The thing that myself and others (scoobychris) are trying to point out is "what is the point of indicating if there is no one there to benefit?" and also as stated in the highway code once you have finished your overtake in lane 2 or 3 you therefore move back to lane one where you should be unless overtaking the vehicle in front. Therefore the vehcile you gone past knows you are going back into lane one so therefore why indicate? but i guessing you one of these morons that as soon as they get on the motorway go straight to lane 2 and sit there at 65.

Sorry if the sarcasm upset you,

Of course no one should sit in your blind spot, nor should they creep up on the inside lane, but not everyone is an advanced driver, or even a good driver.

A scenario for you, a very unlikely one, but possible

Chappy broke down on the hard shoulder, gets it going and starts his way up the hard shoulder.

Matches his speed with the traffic around him, and thinks he will just slot in ahead of this slow moving lorry.

You have just finished passing this lorry and you move back into lane 1 without indicating or glancing over your shoulder because there is no way a car can be there.

Are you assuming other drivers never make bad judgements?

What I cannot understand is why would you not indicate when it takes so little effort to do it?

Agree that driver training is good, but dont understand why they would tell you not to indicate when making a lane change, whatever lane.

but i guessing you one of these morons that as soon as they get on the motorway go straight to lane 2 and sit there at 65.

First time I have encountered this sort of comment on a forum, but then I guess I am new to briskoda.

If you want to know about me, what I do for a living, or what I drive, or how long I have been driving, or how many dead people I have shoveled up of the road, then feel free to send me a private message.

if you are coming up on a lorry and have been observing the road well ahead then you would have seen the car on the hard shoulder, again you would check your mirrors and look left before moving into lane 1, but even if you did indicate how is that going to make any difference if a car is in your blind spot? by putting the indicator on doesnt give you the gift or tell the other driver that he has to move out your way to go back in there. Years ago when i learnt to drive with BSM my instructor regularly told me NOT to indicate back into lane one as you WERE expected to go back to lane one once your overtaking manouvere was over. therefore rule 238 in highway code is adehered to and rule 241 says nothing about having to signal to come back into lane one only when you move out. Its kinda like being at a red traffic light you not gonna get out and shout ive stopped because the car coming up knows you are stopped because the lights are red.

You have just finished passing this lorry and you move back into lane 1 without indicating or glancing over your shoulder because there is no way a car can be there.

I think we need to distinguish between not indicating and not looking. You should always make sure that the space you want to move to is clear and it's this look which determines what's around in the scenario and if there's someone around to indicate to. I agree not looking is just asking for trouble.

Just to step back a little bit, but in this scenario at which point would you clock the driver on the hard shoulder? I'm guessing from quite a way away as you approach him so you've identified there is potential for him to rejoin the main carriageway. Prior to overtaking the lorry, you'll be looking for reasons why the overtake isn't on and if you see the car on the hard shoulder in motion (maybe closing on the lorry?) then maybe you'll be expecting to meet him rejoining further up the road?

What I cannot understand is why would you not indicate when it takes so little effort to do it?

It's a topic that's been well debated everywhere and there's no real conclusion. The general pro-argument is that finding reasons not to signal, forces you to look and plan whereas using signals all the time (as you hinted at above) can lead to not looking as well and relying on a reaction from someone else. Of course, you could say the problem isn't with the signalling, it's with the looking and then we could go full circle

The other question to ask is how useful is a signal. Most of the signals I see during lane changes don't serve any purpose as they're being used to accompany (and in most cases justify) a manouevre rather than as a signal of intent.

Chris