Of course, there are places where you should always indicate, regardless of time of day etc, like turning into or out of the road where I live. This is because you can't see down the road you're turning onto until you've actually in the junction.

As a contrast, you can see 15 to 20 seconds (minimum) each way along the roads at the junction where I turn into work, so if you can't see another vehicle or a pedestrian before you brake, there is no need for a signal. On these occasions, it is also possible to off-side the left turn!

How much effort does it take to push the stalk to indicate, are we that idle that we think it takes too much effort ???

IMHO - if you start with I don't need to indicate here, there ot whereever you will soon be one of the non-indicating brigade (odds on they all remember if a cop car is in the rear view mirror)

How much effort does it take to push the stalk to indicate, are we that idle that we think it takes too much effort ???

Imho, the problem is not how much effort it takes to push the stalk up, it's how much effort it takes for the whole process of preparing to make a manouevre. Most drivers don't seem to bother preparing and use the signal as a way of confirming/justifying their "right of way" (signal and move at the same time) rather than as a signal of intention. I do wonder if pushing the stalk requires too little effort?

Looking to see if there is reasonably likely to be someone around who can benefit forces drivers to do the preparatory phase properly, ie

- looking to see if a signal is needed

- if it isn't, getting on with the manouevre

- if it is then giving one and holding it on long enough (usually around 5 flashes) until an acknowledgement from the vehicle(s) that are being signalled to.is received and then getting on with the manouevre if it is a positive response and holding off if it is negative

Chris

Chris, do you signal to overtake a single slow moving vehicle on a single carriageway road if there is nothing behind and nothing else around?

As Chris says in reply to Mapgo, it's less effort to blindly signal to someone who's not even there than it is to actually look properly and observe that they actually aren't there! Oh and Mapgo, perhaps you should note that I say that in some circumstances a signal is always required irrespective of time of day, simply because you can't see whether or not there will be someone there before you finish the manoevre, at the time when you start it. IMO you start the manoevre when you start explicitly looking for other traffic which may be affected directly by the manoevre, so the sequence M(S)MM takes place over typicall several seconds from the initial Mirror to the point where the braking, steering, gear changing and throttle sequence takes you off the one road onto the other!

Yegnold, I can't actually speak for Chris, but I would signal in that situation yes, as a warning to the overtakee that I am about to move to the right (and there shouldn't be a junction that I'm likely to be turning off into).

"Learners are not allowed on motorways which is completely stupid. I can take a pupil to the test centre in the morning who legally must be supervised, they pass and in the afternoon they can go out on the motorway on their own. It is an accident waiting to happen"

In Germany it is a requirement to go on the AUTOBAHN. A student driver has to have a certain amount of hours also by night driving over the Autobahn. One important aspect here is how to join the Autobahn into rolling traffic and merge without being an obstacle, means to accelerate on the slip road and merge.

Not unlike here where driver slowing down or even stop to join the motorway

Chris, do you signal to overtake a single slow moving vehicle on a single carriageway road if there is nothing behind and nothing else around?

Not usually - in fact I rarely indicate for overtakes unless there's cars behind me which are itching for an overtake - most of the time, I'll just adopt a bold position and that is enough.

For your question, I'd move to the offside early to give me a better view of the road layout ahead, junctions, entrances, etc and then have a good look in the vehicle's mirror. If the driver hasn't looked my way I might consider a couple of quick peeps of the horn or a couple of flashes of the lights to atract his attention - if he sees me it's nice and easy and you can acknowledge him with a thanks and go through. If he hasn't it's a judgement call I'm afraid LHD road maintenance vehicles are especially interesting to overtake!

This is a good example of overtaking a tractor (5 mins onwards)....

YouTube - Advanced Driving - Chris Gilbert Ultimate Driving Craft DVD

Chris

In Germany it is not possible to live a total of 22 hours sea voyage and 3 hours drive from the nearest Autobahn.

In Germany it is a requirement to go on the AUTOBAHN. A student driver has to have a certain amount of hours also by night driving over the Autobahn. One important aspect here is how to join the Autobahn into rolling traffic and merge without being an obstacle, means to accelerate on the slip road and merge.

Not unlike here where driver slowing down or even stop to join the motorway

Although they should be able to (and have practised) doing this onto A-road dual carriageways so a motorway shouldn't be much different?

Chris

Although they should be able to (and have practised) doing this onto A-road dual carriageways so a motorway shouldn't be much different?

Chris

There I agree. In fact, I remember once, whilst learning (practicing with my Dad), doing 70 down a dual carriageway with a hard shoulder, and commenting that this was more difficult than m/way driving was because of the possibility of meeting tractors or mopeds!

Oh and yes people who will not accelerate to at least "truck type speeds" on m/way sliproads are one of my pet hates too, so much so that I've been known to overtake them whilst still on a 2-lane sliproad! Ok, once I get up to cruising speed I normally lose them in the traffic and never see them again, but the basic point is that they're a danger to themselves and others, isn't it?

This is a good example of overtaking a tractor (5 mins onwards)....

YouTube - Advanced Driving - Chris Gilbert Ultimate Driving Craft DVD

Chris

Ah the famous wantage to newbury road:D:thumbup:

There I agree. In fact, I remember once, whilst learning (practicing with my Dad), doing 70 down a dual carriageway with a hard shoulder, and commenting that this was more difficult than m/way driving was because of the possibility of meeting tractors or mopeds!

Oh and yes people who will not accelerate to at least "truck type speeds" on m/way sliproads are one of my pet hates too, so much so that I've been known to overtake them whilst still on a 2-lane sliproad! Ok, once I get up to cruising speed I normally lose them in the traffic and never see them again, but the basic point is that they're a danger to themselves and others, isn't it?

Let's not forget that the line across the end of the slip road is a GIVE WAY line! Yes, by all means let's get speed up to match the traffic on the main carriageway, but remembering all the time that the onus is on us to give way to that traffic, not the other way around.

Let's not forget that the line across the end of the slip road is a GIVE WAY line! Yes, by all means let's get speed up to match the traffic on the main carriageway, but remembering all the time that the onus is on us to give way to that traffic, not the other way around.

That's exactly my point; it's easier to lose, gain, or lose and regain a little speed to hit a gap, than to try and make up 15 or 20 mph!

Im normally moving too fast to be seen indicating

But do they care? Assuming you've left a good separation before returning to lane 1, it's not going to affect their speed or course and not going to cause any inconvenience, so why bother?

Chris

It's a good habit to be in (if you are doing it all the time, you are going to be doing it when it matters, and when it doesn't matters all you are doing is flashing some lights). If you are in the car behind, even if you won't be conflicting with them its nice to know what is going on around you, so you are aware that a problem MAY arise during the overtake, and what the other road users are doing. It makes the road safer for everyone and less stressful.

IMHO, indicating is something that should be done always, even if you can't see anyone close by - its a good habit to have and it's generally polite I feel. How many of us have had someone pull out in front and thought "what a tit" when they haven't indicated, even when we didn't need to adjusted our speed? I know I have.

If you are in the car behind, even if you won't be conflicting with them its nice to know what is going on around you, so you are aware that a problem MAY arise during the overtake, and what the other road users are doing. It makes the road safer for everyone and less stressful.

Will a signal help you know that a problem may occur during an overtake? If the car is sat at or over the centre line then you already know they're looking for an overtake - will a signal really help? Imho, the safety and stress aspect is down to be people signalling badly, rather than only signalling where it's necessary....

How many of us have had someone pull out in front and thought "what a tit" when they haven't indicated, even when we didn't need to adjusted our speed? I know I have.

What made you think "what a tit"? If it didn't affect you, why get upset by it?

Chris

Will a signal help you know that a problem may occur during an overtake? If the car is sat at or over the centre line then you already know they're looking for an overtake - will a signal really help? Imho, the safety and stress aspect is down to be people signalling badly, rather than only signalling where it's necessary....

What made you think "what a tit"? If it didn't affect you, why get upset by it?

Chris

It won't let me know that a problem WILL occur, but I will know that I will soon have a reduced view of the road as the car moves in front, and that he may be held up. So I can sooner have a plan A (stay in lane) plan B (be ready to slow) plan C (move over) and so on. if he doesn't indicated and just moves over, I have less time to think of these things (assuming he flashes 3 / 4 times before moving of course).

And the cause for thinking what a tit was that he moved over suddenly in a van, and although I didn't need to slow to maintain the gap, I felt it was inconsiderate driving, as had he indicated and moved over slowly I would have felt more comfortable. Instead I was thinking he may not be paying full attention or that he may move over again suddenly and I must give him a wide space on the road. :rotz:

My main reason though is that if you are in the habit of doing it properly, you will do it when it matters, just automatically. And if you are not in the habit, you may neglect to do it when you should.

I fully understand your arguments against bad signalling though but I have heard people say "I never signal so that people pay me more attention as they don't know what I am going to do" which worries me!!! :thumbdwn:

Sorry - but I cant undersatnd what people have against indicating. Whats wrong with always indicating your intentions to who ever is there be it car, van , lorry, biker, cyclist, pedeastrian, jogger, horse rider etc etc . And there is always the chance you've missed something - we are human and imperfect after all. Anyway it hardly takes any effort and many people simply dont do it enough IMO.

Jules, it's quite simple. If you signal every time out of habit, rather than making a concious decision to signal when required, sooner or later you will forget, or throw your vehicle at someone that you didn't see because you didn't observe. I don't understand why the "you should always signal" brigade think they're right, because always signalling is less effort than observing properly. Yes, there are junctions where I always signal, but that's because they're blind one direction until you're almost finished braking.

I indicate UNLESS there is no one around that would benefit or need advanced warning you're moving - as with the lane one example. Empty motorway/roundabout etc.

Ahh, sorry Mr perfect.

I didnt know there were drivers out there that are so good and never, ever made a mistake, and always know if a cars in their blind spot, so can indicate whenever they like, or not, as in this discussion.

Never had an issue with a blind spot on a car. If mirrors and stupidly small, and they're set correctly, there should be no blind spot IME.

Yes, there are junctions where I always signal, but that's because they're blind one direction until you're almost finished braking.

I agree with this and I think the key is to look for reasons *NOT* to signal, rather than reasons to signal. For instance, if you have no view and/or it's reasonable to expect someone to be coming, eg a T junction joining a major road, use a signal.

Chris

I believe that your signal is not just for other road users. It is also for pedestrians for whom an indication that you are turning a corner rather than going straight on might be a life saver. And you might not see them as easily.

I'm of the "always indicate unless there is a good reason not to" brigade. I would rather i had indicated unnecessarily than find someone had hit me or had an accident because i did not see them. I have certainly been able to blow my horn when someone indicated to come out in front of me on the motorway, having not seen me. If he'd not indicated, he'd likely have come out and hit me.

I agree with previous comments that indicating is not an excuse to concentrate less, not is it a method of pushing in. Sadly the last of those is all too common.

Jules, it's quite simple. If you signal every time out of habit, rather than making a concious decision to signal when required, sooner or later you will forget, or throw your vehicle at someone that you didn't see because you didn't observe. I don't understand why the "you should always signal" brigade think they're right, because always signalling is less effort than observing properly. Yes, there are junctions where I always signal, but that's because they're blind one direction until you're almost finished braking.

Thats not what I mean. I believe you should alway check etc etc AND signal in nearly all situations. I believe a signal that is unnecessary is far better than one not given when needed becuase you've missed something or dont bother because its less effort. The "you've" is not aimed at you personally.