MP3 or WMA or WMA losless?

[JAB]

My Superb is due for delivery in the next few weeks and I have started thinking about converting my music collection to MP3 or WMA. My previous car had a Bose audio system and CD changer that couldn’t play mp3 audio so I am looking for some advice on getting the best playback on in the new car (I have opted fro the upgraded sound system).

My main question is should I convert to MP3 with some loss of quality or can I use WMA with lossless compression? I will be using EAC to do the conversion. I know that the Columbus unit reads MP3 and WMA but does that include the lossless form as well?

I know that some threads have covered some of this but I cant find a specific reference to the 2 types of WMA. Also file size is not too important as I don’t have a vast music collection.

[gadgetman]

Only Mp3 will work IIRC.

[Supurbia]

Lossless is rubbish tbh, it makes the volume go up and down and generally ruins the sound, rip at 160kbps, this will give you good sound and average file size.

[Bagpuss]

WMA and MP3 files play back just fine on both the Columbus and Bolero units.

The information is on page 22 of the Columbus manual and page 9 of the Bolero book. This assumes the English versions of the manuals.

The manual only talks about WMA compressed formats, so I can't be sure if lossless is supported. The only restrictions listed in the manual are that WMA DRM is not supported, and that the WMA maximum bitrate is the same as for MP3 (320kbps). I'm guessing that this might rule out lossless, as the bitrate is probably higher than that.

Given that the hard drive in the Columbus is very small, I reckon that using a compressed format makes more sense. In any event, the listening environment in the car means you'll not hear any increase in quality from the lossless format.

Personally, I use EAC piped into LAME to encode joint stereo VBR MP3 with a minimum bitrate of 128kbps and a maximum of 320kbps. This gives excellent quality, with a reasonable file size.

Interestingly, if you opt for the MDI interface (which will be a factory option from wk. 22 (May 31st onwards)), then you also get support for OGG and AAC. However, these file formats cannot be played from the internal HDD.

Bagpuss.

Edited 13 April, 2009 by Bagpuss

[JAB]

Is VBR variable bit rate? If so how do you enable tis in EAC.

Many thanks JAB

[jcblincs]

all mine are ripped at a fixed rate of 128 and you cant tell the difference between the original CD and the MP3 in the car environment. you only have 18GB of space for music on the columbus so best to stickwith MP3 at a low rate as you will not tell any difference (anyone who says you can is just being too techy and theoretical about it !!! LOL)

[Bagpuss]

Is VBR variable bit rate? If so how do you enable tis in EAC.

Many thanks JAB

VBR is indeed variable bit rate.

Check out:

Configuring EAC pt1, Audio Tutorials - Music-Reviewed.com

for information on how to get EAC to do VBR.

In the guide at this location, you'll see that there is a screen where the EAC installer goes looking for the LAME binaries. Once it's found them, you'll be given a choice of LAME settings to use. It's best to accept the default r3mix settings, which give you the same settings as I mentioned in my previous post. This results in a near CD quality encode.

As Jonathan mentions, you could encode at 128kbps fixed rate, if your only concern is to fit as much music as possible on the hard drive. As you say that your collection is very small, I would recommend using the r3mix settings, as this will then give you an archival quality MP3. You can then listen to this in the car, on your iPod or at home, and know that you've got the best quality possible. A 128kbps file may be okay for the car, but you'll definitely notice the compression artifacts in other listening environments.

In any event, using the VBR encoding usually results in about a 10-15% size premium over the fixed bit rate, so you are not really saving that much space by going fixed rate.

Bagpuss.

[urbanboy]

Hi Bagpuss,

do you know if the MDI interface which will be a factory option from wk. 22 for all countries?

And do you know if there will be other new options for the car?

Thank you very much.

Urban

[Bagpuss]

Should be wk.22 for all countries, from what I'm told. This is when the first 2010 MY cars will be orderable.

For the UK, there won't be an official retrofit kit, but that might be different for other countries.

As for other options, then I'm not sure. I've not heard about any.

Bagpuss.

[Indulis]

256K and above MP3 variable bit rate. If you rip your music once you don't want to have to do it again.

LAME - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebase

My logic is that $/GB for disk and memory cards halves every 12-18 months, so in 1 year I will be able to fit in a high quality MP3 into the same $ as I can fit a low bit rate one today. And I do not have the time to rip all my CDs twice!

Edited 18 May, 2009 by Indulis
Some LAME reason

[squirtybertie]

Bagpuss is right. I'm a sound engineer and use all kinds of files and bitrates. It's not that easy to tell the difference even with pro hardware. VBR lame gets the most from a compact file but bog standard 128 mp3 is fine too. Stick to those and squeeze more onto your drive.

[Lady Elanore]

Bagpuss is right. I'm a sound engineer and use all kinds of files and bitrates. It's not that easy to tell the difference even with pro hardware. VBR lame gets the most from a compact file but bog standard 128 mp3 is fine too. Stick to those and squeeze more onto your drive.

I have a fairly broad selection of mp3, WMA etc and of varying bit rates, but nothing sounds as good as the original source material in my car, let alone on my home system or in a studio. I rip as high a rate as I can, because if your car has a decent system you will hear a difference. It just depends if you can live with it. Some things you will notice that is easily heard, is things like reverb and stereo image. Reverb sounds crude and the stereo will seem a little more blocky. ie an orchestra will sounds as though they are sat in tight groups rather than spread smoothly across the sound stage. Unfortunately you need bigger files to approach the originals quality, but I think it is worth sacrificing some space for more quality VBR Lame is a good comproise though and probably the best overall 'have your cake and eat it' answer to your problem

Edited 25 November, 2011 by Lady Elanore

[Jonny5ive]

Holy Thread Revival Batman!!

[Lady Elanore]

Holy Thread Revival Batman!!

I thought that too Spiderman

[squirtybertie]

Holy Thread Revival Batman!!

lol hey I've just come back to Skoda after a 14 year gap. The Black 1988 Rapid coupe with smokescreen, cloak hanger and ejector seat is no more.

OK look, this bit rate thing, it's all about resolution. CD-quality 1400Kb/s on a car stereo is like watching HDTV on a 2" screen. You'll be lucky to tell the difference cos the hardware simply can't show all the information. Even worse, the higher bit rates are harder for the (DAC) processor to handle so increases the timing errors. More balls to juggle so goes off rhythm if you like. The Bolero is good but not that good. No car stereo is...there's the vibration for a start...and that glassy sibilance.. The quality of the rip makes much more difference (which is why some mp3's sound rubbish).

Actually, I'm delighted to have just discovered on these forums that the Bolero in my spanking new VRS not only copes with VBRlame but does after all accept SDHC cards including the class 20 one I tried (the manual says [titchy] SD card only).. so with all that extra space I'll give wav files a try and hope to be proved wrong.. My bat hearing might be able to discern a worthwhile difference who knows..

[Lady Elanore]

The system in my car certainly lets me discern the difference between CD and what would be described as a good quality rip, although it isn't a Bolero (it is a VAG though). But there again I too am a Sound engineer, so I probably listen for differences more than the content if I am not careful :( :( At high speed though, I doubt I could hear the differences over the ambient noise levels (and the screaming of my passengers..........or George Clooney in the boot)

Edited 26 November, 2011 by Lady Elanore

[mannyo]

I can tell as well, I currently rip everything at 320kbps Mp3, so I did a test and also ripped a track I know well at 128kbs. I copied both to an sd card and then played them in my columbus.

The result, 320kbps sounded great. It had good bass, the treble and mid range response was also good.

Moving on to the 128kbps file, this sounded dull and lifeless, the bass sounded muffled whilst the treble left my ears with a very noticeable shrill sound,

My superb has the standard found system, I often wonder if most of the soubd quality issues people complain about are down to the source material being played, and they try and mask them with the audio settings.

My entire music collection is ripped to mp3, and the CDs are in storage boxes under the bed, it's mostly ripped at 320 and I have more than 300gb of music

[squirtybertie]

I can tell as well, I currently rip everything at 320kbps Mp3, so I did a test and also ripped a track I know well at 128kbs. I copied both to an sd card and then played them in my columbus.

The result, 320kbps sounded great. It had good bass, the treble and mid range response was also good.

Moving on to the 128kbps file, this sounded dull and lifeless, the bass sounded muffled whilst the treble left my ears with a very noticeable shrill sound,

My superb has the standard found system, I often wonder if most of the soubd quality issues people complain about are down to the source material being played, and they try and mask them with the audio settings.

My entire music collection is ripped to mp3, and the CDs are in storage boxes under the bed, it's mostly ripped at 320 and I have more than 300gb of music

Yeah there is some difference: I use EAC lossless codec through my silly money home stereo, but mp3's can still sound fantastic on it. It also depends what you're listening to. If Amanda had engineered the original recording with the LSO you'd probably tell, but if I'd done it with Fatboy Slim it would sound awful whatever bitrate or hardware ..I used to bang the drum for high bit rates but I'm not at all so sure these days.

[Lady Elanore]

Yeah there is some difference: I use EAC lossless codec through my silly money home stereo, but mp3's can still sound fantastic on it. It also depends what you're listening to. If Amanda had engineered the original recording with the LSO you'd probably tell, but if I'd done it with Fatboy Slim it would sound awful whatever bitrate or hardware ..I used to bang the drum for high bit rates but I'm not at all so sure these days.

I recently did the Halle and with classical music you can certainly tell, but there are a lot of obvious nuances and subtleties (if that isn't an oxymoron) in classical music, so perhaps I find it easier. Never done the LSO except at the Proms and that was for telly, so I don't think that counts

[Kiwi 5UPERB]

I'm using WMA VBR, ripped at a maximum of up to the highest bitrate supported in Windows Media Player (355kbps), copied onto an SD card in a Bolero. Works brilliantly (only small downside is being VBR you don't know the time remaining on any track - display just reads "VBR").