discussion-damaged-cars-trackdays

[Beretta]

Just shows what can happen when you knowingly take a car onto the track with bent front offside KW suspension, and show no regard for the safety of anybody else on the track or the highway on the journey there or back.

Several threads prove that he had prior knowledge of the dangerous condition of this car, and still endangered the lives of others.

He came off twice, here and at Quarry, and luckily for others did not take anyone else with him, but take a minute to think how "YOU" would have reacted if your car was written off by him with no track day insurance?

Edited 27 April, 2009 by Beretta

[yegnold]

He came off twice and luckily for others did not take anyone else with him, but take a minute to think how "YOU" would have reacted if your car was written off by him with no track day insurance?

I for one would certainly have not been very happy. I had no idea there was anything wrong with this car - I suppose that's what you get for not reading the octavia sections :(

[Beretta]

Just read the one "Trevors car on Super Skoda"

[jaymd]

I let a certain person pass me as i thought it was safer being behind him really than being hit up the ar$e.

[dc14]

woaah.im glad that red octy was well away from me then!

really enjoyed the day out there and seein the rest of you guys,also the lil convoy en route and my first track experience.Loved my car on track but dont think i wud go out in it again just due to the fact its my main car,the wife wud kill me and u can never tell if another car mite wipe you out even if u been driving ok!?

i will be back up there wiv a lil track car tho i think soon!!

[Beretta]

I for one would certainly have not been very happy. I had no idea there was anything wrong with this car - I suppose that's what you get for not reading the octavia sections :(

Westalcc and I both reported it to the mods of the forum prior to the track day, and photos of the damage sent to them, and even with his own admission in the "Trevor on Super Skoda" thread that the suspension was still bent, they allowed him to track his car.

It should never have been allowed anywhere near the track.

Lets take the case one step further:-

Its a private track so no insurance, he takes you off the track in an accident, you are put in a wheel chair for life, you then take a civil action against him and he has no money, so you end up with a £1 a week for life.

Would you and your family/dependants be happy?

If it is reported by forum members and admitted by the person himself in open forum, then the mods have an obligation to other forum members to take action, in this case they failed to do it, perhaps they will in the future?

[yegnold]

It should never have been allowed anywhere near the track.

... or the roads leading to the track, you could argue? Isn't bent suspension components an MOT failure (if found)? Hence the car is not technically road legal.. hence insurance is void.... hence if the car were involved in an accident (fatal or not) the 'victims' would not get any money for damage sustained?

Anyway - I'm not going to moan too much because nothing bad happened and noone was hurt. Perhaps we were all very lucky indeed!

[Beretta]

... or the roads leading to the track, you could argue? Isn't bent suspension components an MOT failure (if found)? Hence the car is not technically road legal.. hence insurance is void.... hence if the car were involved in an accident (fatal or not) the 'victims' would not get any money for damage sustained?

Anyway - I'm not going to moan too much because nothing bad happened and noone was hurt. Perhaps we were all very lucky indeed!

Yes quite correct, but if you read his post in the "Trevor on Super Skoda" thread, there he also states that both the rear KW suspension shocks are knocking, so it looks as though only the nearside front is still working properly?

YET STILL HE TRACKED IT.

[robmawer]

If it is reported by forum members and admitted by the person himself in open forum, then the mods have an obligation to other forum members to take action, in this case they failed to do it, perhaps they will in the future?

Moderators have an obligation to moderate this forum - determining a vehicles road/track-worthiness is not part of this obligation. I would suggest this obligation would be more for VOSA/the scrutineers who permitted the vehicle on track after checking it.

Rob.

[Beretta]

Moderators have an obligation to moderate this forum - determining a vehicles road/track-worthiness is not part of this obligation. I would suggest this obligation would be more for VOSA/the scrutineers who permitted the vehicle on track after checking it.

Rob.

So lets all adopt an ostrich mentality until someone is killed.

If anyone had ben injured or killed then Brisokda would have been mentioned, and that would have been a great advert, espcially when it was found out that the mod team, knew and did nothing to avoid it.

You have a moral obligation to all forum members to protect them.

[Guest westallc]

Moderators have an obligation to moderate this forum - determining a vehicles road/track-worthiness is not part of this obligation. I would suggest this obligation would be more for VOSA/the scrutineers who permitted the vehicle on track after checking it.

Rob.

mate you do have an obligation to everyone on the forum that if you know of a problem with somethink you have the obligation to let people know of that problem simple as that....

if you have no obligations to members what is the point of having a mod team:confused:

you the mods knew about the faults with this car and choose to do nothing

[robmawer]

if you have no obligations to members what is the point of having a mod team:confused:

Sorry, I thought I'd been quite clear - our obligation is to moderate the forums. Not to check cars for roadworthiness.

We look after an internet forum - we aren't the police or anything...

Rob.

[Guest westallc]

mate when you have been told many times of a car that is not road worthy and will put people at risk with photo's to prove it and as it was a brisky event with other members at risk you have a duty of care to the forum members as it was a brisky event. do you not:confused:

[robmawer]

You have a moral obligation to all forum members to protect them.

That would be for those who inspected the car at the track before letting it on the track. You know, who actually have the responsibilty for events on the track, who have some mechanical knowledge and who have the car in front of them to inspect.

Rob.

[robmawer]

mate when you have been told many times of a car that is not road worthy and will put people at risk with photo's to prove it and as it was a brisky event with other members at risk you have a duty of care to the forum members as it was a brisky event. do you not:confused:

Not as far as I'm aware...the lines of responsibilty are fairly clear as far as I'm concerned. If it's the internet forum, yes, it's for the moderators to deal with. If it's on a track owned by someone else, that's for the track owners to be responsible for.

Rob.

[Beretta]

That would be for those who inspected the car at the track before letting it on the track. You know, who actually have the responsibilty for events on the track, who have some mechanical knowledge and who have the car in front of them to inspect.

Rob.

There is more mechanical knowledge on this forum than the two jobsworths with the sound metre can ever have, all anyone wanted to do was to track in safety, and this did not happen due to the posts as mentioned above.

So lets stop posting, and wait until someone is killed on track by another Trevor who is prepared to drive a mechanically defective car and show a total disregard to the health and safety of other forum members.

[robmawer]

As an aside, and the last thing I'm going to say on the matter as I don't want this thread to persist off-topic - if you two are that concerned about this car being a deathtrap and have the evidence to support it, why post digs about it on an internet forum rather than contacting someone who can do something about it (VOSA or someone)?

Would seem far a far more effective course of action to me...

Rob.

[Guest westallc]

rob mate dont mean to sound rude but if the mods are not willing to stop things like this then you guys are a complete waste of time..

have you been to any meets ??????? if so would you be happy if this car was to total yours and have no insurance......:confused:

its all well and good sitting behind the screen and saying not our problem that is typical of someone that hasnt got anyballs to solve members issues:mad:

[robmawer]

have you been to any meets ??????? if so would you be happy if this car was to total yours and have no insurance......:confused:

No I wouldn't be happy, but at the same time I wouldn't view it as a bunch of people running an internet forum's responsibility to have done something about it.

its all well and good sitting behind the screen and saying not our problem that is typical of someone that hasnt got anyballs to solve members issues:mad:

I will happily solve any member issues - which occur ON THIS FORUM.

I'm not sure why you can't see there is a distinction between being responsible for running an internet forum, and making sure cars are roadworthy for a trackday. Or indeed any drivers are capable of driving at track speeds. Or making sure it isn't raining.

Like I say, if you're that concerned about the car, contact the authorities who can do something about it. Not a bunch of people running an internet forum.

Rob.

[Guest westallc]

If this NEEDS to be discussed then can you take it elsewhere as this is meant to be a 'pic' thread of what was a thoroughly fine day at Castle Coombe

............... for my penneth worth, Briskoda cannot possibly be held responsible for the actions of an individual on here or the state ofr their vehicle, the best course of action if you were that concerned would have been to have reported it to the track officials.

you should be a mod you will fit straight in.........

end of subject not really botherd now as if anything was to happen ive done my bit....

lets hope nothing happens on a briskoda organised event as im sure there is some responsibilty but i guess that would be for the lawyers to say:thumbup:

[Makefish]

you should be a mod you will fit straight in.........

you'd think so wouldn't you :P

[expostmanpat]

lets hope nothing happens on a briskoda organised event as im sure there is some responsibilty but i guess that would be for the lawyers to say:thumbup:

Just as a point of interest, with the exception of the national meet coming up at Gaydon, I am not sure there ever as been a 'Briskoda' organised event, A member taking it upon themselves, be they a mod or not, to organise an event does not make it a 'Briskoda' event, only a group of people who have met via a web site. No one pays 'Briskoda' to carry liability insurance etc etc, and as an entity it as no knowledge. I certainly would not have expected Briskoda to carry any responsibility with the events I have organised, and this attitude is likley to see an end of organised events by members. In the case of Trevors car the mods where informed about his car vis a vis his wheels being for sale, any mechanical defects where hearsay and no proof was submitted as to wether the faults had been rectified or not. As I understand it CC was not hired by 'Briskoda' and it was a public event that Trevor could have attended at any time, Were Briskoda and the mods to be held accountable if a n other car had spun off the track due to a mechanical deffect and killed a 'Briskodian' in the crowd. If either Beretta or Westallc where so concerned about the car on the day Why did they proceed with the event themselves and why did they not stage a protest at the track, given that they where the ones with 'proof'.

Edited 27 April, 2009 by postmanpat

[AlphaPapa]

I am astounded at the attitude of some of you towards the briskoda.net staff! This was not a briskoda organised event, it was organised by a member who just happens to be a moderator, that does not mean in any way shape or form that this was an officially organised briskoda.net event.

The fact of the matter is, Trevor could have booked that track day through any number of avenues and other forums, the mechanical integrity of his car is none of our business. You take a calculated risk off your own back every time you go on a track day and none of you know completely the state of any of the other cars on that track, i noticed in the photos there was an L reg corsa.. are you saying that was 100% mechanically sound?

Trevor was contacted by Jason prior to the track day expressing the concerns of everyone and Trevor took full responsibility. We cannot ban someone from a public event.

Any more blame or accusations aimed towards briskoda or its staff will be removed as its not on at all. I would also like to add this forum does not tolerate bullying of any member, and i think this thread is treading a fine line!

[Dr Zoidberg]

I think there's a difference between legal responsibilty , which none of the Briskoda staff have here , and a moral responsibility that can apply to anyone , not just mods here.

I don't know what exactly was said before the event , but if someone had made me aware that a car with a known fault that would affect it's handling was planning on doing a track day I'd like to think that I'd have had a word. First with the driver , then if it didn't sound like they were going to be sensible I'd have spoken to the organisers of the event.

Any sort of track day is hazardous enough as it is and most people attending would want everyone else to drive safely and that includes a roadworthy car. Turning a blind eye to a vehicle with problems doesn't help this.

Oh , and on the subject of something that would fail an MOT and it invalidating your insurance - it doesn't.

[Stuart_J]

If the car is known to be dangerous & you are concerned report it to the Police & they will tag it so next time it comes up on the ANPR it will get a tug, also let the owner know you have done it then he will hopefully stop driving it until its fixed.

Its not Briskodas job to check roadworthiness or track worthiness of cars. Its up to the owners & if a member has concerns raise it with the officials or the Police