My thoughts on the Fabia RS standard suspension

[pbirkett]

OK, my view on this is probably quite unpopular, but nevertheless I want to share my opinion on the suspension and handling of the standard vRS.

I was planning to get Eibach springs and dampers for the car, but I am seriously reconsidering this option. It is my opinion that, although the handling and low speed grip are not the best in its class (especially when compared to a petrol car), I find that its high speed grip and handling is in fact, very good.

For sure, the car take a different approach to twisty roads, but once you have learned the way (slower in, faster out) you can cover such roads at almost astonishing speed

At first, I felt that the standard suspension was a bit soft and underdamped. Strange though this sounds, the suspension seems better now the car has 10.5k miles on the clock, the damping seems a bit better for some reason, with less bounce. I thought I might be imagining this, but I swear I'm not, on some incredibly bouncy and rough roads near where I live, the car is a bit more composed than it was when I first got it.

Also, I have done a lot of reading on suspension, and have come to the conclusion that a firmer suspension setup is probably not going to benefit me in the way I want. With my understanding, the much firmer setup will make the car "handle" better, but will also make it more unsettled on the rough roads it tends to go on, and make it skittish, and will unsettle its planted feel at higher speeds. I have found that the car is very stable even at speeds far in excess of those that would lose you your license. The soft suspension means the car is very forgiving and I feel low speed excepted, the car grips really well.

I also think that the seating position is very important. I feel that if I sit too low and/or too far back in the car, I dont feel like I am in such control of the car. I have found a perfect seating position that makes the most of the visibility and gives the car a quite excellent feel to the drive.

Now, I think that better tyres may well help with the low speed grip (not that I have that many problems even with that, truth be told), and perhaps a strut brace might make a little difference without changing anything too radically? I am trying to understand what people mean by "tightening" the front end?

Anyway, some people have claimed that the suspension setup is woeful, but I disagree completely, you can drive this car very quickly round twisty roads if you drive it right. That means not treating it as though its a small engined, lightweight car, but compensating for its heavier engine, and once you do that, I feel theres not that many similarly powered cars that will get away from you on one of our average, rough, bumpy B-roads. Also, the benefit with the softer suspension is comfort on motorways, something I like and I would not want to dismiss.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that for my needs, the car is a fun, and entertaining car on stock suspension and that no mods are really needed for use on normal british roads. I can perhaps understand modding the car to use on a track, but on roads, well its down to the preferences of the person who owns it, but I just wanted to say that I dont feel the suspension (and brakes, but thats another matter) are as bad as made out. I feel that the extent of my modding could be enough with only a strut brace, perhaps better brake pads and a mild remap (say 170-180 bhp).

Anyway, does anyone agree with me or not?

[msoames21]

I feel the suspension on the vRS is a little firmer that the 1.9 TDi standard car but i still think it isn't good enough for my tastes. Perhaps its down to what you want from the car rather than what everyone else wants. If you get on well with the suspension keep it, its a lot cheap than if you don't.

Matt

[pbirkett]

mooames21,

I think the fact that the car is marketed as a hot hatch means that people expect it to be very firm, and understandably so since most hot hatches are. However, I have to wonder why all of VW's sporting diesels all are more softly sprung than their petrol equivalents. Even the new Ibiza Cupra TDI is meant to be fairly softly sprung (although probably a bit firmer than the vRS), and what it does ultimately mean from what I can understand is that the handling might not be as sharp, but roadholding and grip happen to be very good. I also quite like the way the vRS has a comfortable ride. It is a compromise, but then many people would argue the very fact it has a diesel engine is a compromise for outright sportiness.

I actually see the car more as a fast "tourer" than an outright hot hatch, as it goes against the very principle of what to me should be a hot hatch, which is that it be petrol powered, light (however, it seems to me that most hot hatches fail at being light these days), firm handling. These attributes are great for the track, but are they as well suited for the road? Like I say, thats up to the owner, and my labelling it as a "tourer" is not a criticism, nor does it mean that the car is not "sporty".

Just IMHO of course.

[pbirkett]

Hi helpmedisappear (what a name, BTW),

What difference did you feel the strut brace makes?

I've not driven an ordinary Fabia so I dont know what the handling is like in comparison, but like I've already said, I think the vRS is a very nice car to drive. Definitely a jack of all trades.

[robmawer]

However, I have to wonder why all of VW's sporting diesels all are more softly sprung than their petrol equivalents.

All VAG cars are softly sprung, deep down they know it's what their buyers actually want...

Rob.

[C.J.]

I was planning to get Eibach springs and dampers for the car' date=' but I am seriously reconsidering this option. It is my opinion that, although the handling and low speed grip are not the best in its class (especially when compared to a petrol car), I find that its high speed grip and handling is in fact, very good.

For sure, the car take a different approach to twisty roads, but once you have learned the way (slower in, faster out) you can cover such roads at almost astonishing speed

Anyway, does anyone agree with me or not? [/quote']

Couldn't agree anymore Paul. and I've used mine for sprinting too.

An adjustable suspension set up and LSD may well help me achieve better track times, but for everyday use on the public highway, and driving at good progress but not boy racer speeds, it is in my opinion, more than adequate.

[pbirkett]

All VAG cars are softly sprung' date=' deep down they know it's what their buyers actually want...

.[/quote']

My friends Ibiza FR is much more firm than the vRS. I would expect that its probably more firm than the Cupra TDI, and that the Cupra 1.8T will be firmer than both.

[Neo_VR]

I agree.. for the car that it is.. its well balanced.. ive driven the Ibiza TDI sport and the handling isnt better.. but ride quality and comfort is much much worse.

But for the way *I* drive... its a bit too soft

[des_pd_ tdi]

I drove my mates 1.416v Comfort as a comparrison and there is a huooooooooooge difference. Almost barge like in comparrison.

I'm relatively happy with my standard VRs setup although I am going for the lower front and Seat upper strut braces, after all for both they're only gonna cost

[pbirkett]

Couldn't agree anymore Paul. and I've used mine for sprinting too.

An adjustable suspension set up and LSD may well help me achieve better track times' date=' but for everyday use on the public highway, and driving at good progress but not boy racer speeds, it is in my opinion, more than adequate.[/quote']

Hi CJ,

Glad you chimed in, as I know you do track days and I'm sure I read a comment on how well you felt it performed even on standard equipment. I was reading some stuff on various forae, and cars which are said to be good handlers can also be said to be skittish and unsettled on normal B roads.

I know I had my doubts initially, but for some reason in the last month or so I've really, really warmed to this car, and its by far the best/nicest I've driven

[pbirkett]

I agree.. for the car that it is.. its well balanced.. ive driven the Ibiza TDI sport and the handling isnt better.. but ride quality and comfort is much much worse.

But for the way *I* drive... its a bit too soft

Yep, my mate used to have a TDI sport and I took him out in my car and he seemed to think both the handling and ride were far better in the vRS. I think they've improved it in the FR TDI though.

Dont get me wrong though mate, I do drive it VERY hard sometimes, but its still never let me down

[Chavyboy]

Paul,

100% agree with what you have said. The car in all honesty is fine for everyday driving, I came from 2 cars that had hard suspensions and on the motorway it was a nightmare as these would skip all over the road at the first bump. The Fabia vRS suspension IMHO is setup perfectly for a nice mix of sportyness and comfort.

The car will perform well when you take the right driving line but alot of people moan when they put the car into a corner that is going to test their driving skills and end up pushing the car to the limit of their abilities. I feel these people could benefit from an advanced driving course or maybe a trackday with a good insturctor.

I have fitted an upper strut brace in the hope that it "tightens" the front end up (Makes the steering more precious) and I am also in talks with AAT about ordering aload of lower strut braces to tighten it up even more (See group buy forum) and make it more responsive throught the steering but you will hit a problem because the simple fact is the Fabia has power steering and you won't get as much feedback throught the wheels as a non power steering due to the mechnic's of the power steering taking some of that feeling away.

Just remember this car weight 1300kgs and is nose heavy so you must drive the car to adjust for the fact it is nose heavy. I think the problem with the car being nose heavy is the back will have a tendency to step out (Try leaning over the handle bars of a push bike a brake with both brakes and the rear of the bike with sway about uncontrolled).

As to the brakes I tend to agree they are a little lacking but again you should not be in a position that you need to slam them on hard ever 5 minutes, this again is down to driving ability, but having said that I think a good set of pads (DS2500's have been mentioned) and some good brake fluid (Dot 4 super has been mentioned) will solve the issues with brake fad and will make the braking sharper.

Just my 2 pence worth.

Ivan

[jimmy9uk]

thought id add my two pence worth to the discussion.

i like the way my vrs handles and think the suspension is good in all circumstances.

on motorways and dual carriageways the car soaks up the undulating dips and rises and on a lot of fen roads (where, unfortunately i drive quite often) it is solid and smooth.

i had the (mis)fortune to drive a 1.9 standard fabia diesel when mine was being serviced and believe me, the difference is a million miles! there is simplky no comparison, the vrs feels like a different car from a different time (which it is).

i guess its down to personal preference and experience of other cars but i am more than happy.

however, i do think my front suspension is starting to develop and squeaking/groan when i go over speed bumps (and i always go slow over them).

[Chavyboy]

Please' date=' call me Martin

[b']The strut makes the steering more responsive and (honestly) harder to turn the steering wheel. [/b] Understeer is reduced but its the responsivness that i like. Ive driven a few standard Fabia's now and the steering is too light, it seems like you have to turn the wheel more for it to actually go round corners. I put this down to the wollowy ride. I was glad to get back in mine

Find someone with VAG COM to change the weight of the steering

[ScoobyChris]

Paul, have you been out in/driven a Furby vRS with Eibachs? The most noticeable difference between it and standard (apart from a huge reduction in body roll) is the lack of nose-diving and nose-lifting under braking and acceleration.....

Chris

[robmawer]

My friends Ibiza FR is much more firm than the vRS. I would expect that its probably more firm than the Cupra TDI, and that the Cupra 1.8T will be firmer than both.

But still ultimately pretty soft setups...

Suspect the diesels will have softer suspension due to the weight of the engine, as the vertical forces exerted will be greater as a result of this. It's preferable for this damping to occur through the suspension...

Rob.

[mobtob]

I thought the standard set up was too soft and wallowy so made the following changes;

- Seat upper strut brace -

[C.J.]

Hi CJ' date='

Glad you chimed in, as I know you do track days and I'm sure I read a comment on how well you felt it performed even on standard equipment. [/quote']

Don't want it to appear that I'm bragging in any way at all, but the sprint I did at Ty Croes on the 4/5 of this month was a fine test against a BMW mini Cooper S works that apparently has 220bhp! On the last 4 runs he beat me by less than 2 seconds..last run by 0.3. He'd obviously got more straight line speed than me, but what happened to the so called magical cornering capabilitys I wonder?

With an LSD, uprated brakes, lowered..and his was..considerably...and a similar suspension set up to his, and I feel fairly sure I'd have had him.

The guy wasn't a total novice either..doing the Midlands speed championship.

[pbirkett]

I have fitted an upper strut brace in the hope that it "tightens" the front end up (Makes the steering more precious)

Did you mean precise?

As to the brakes I tend to agree they are a little lacking but again you should not be in a position that you need to slam them on hard ever 5 minutes, this again is down to driving ability, but having said that I think a good set of pads (DS2500's have been mentioned) and some good brake fluid (Dot 4 super has been mentioned) will solve the issues with brake fad and will make the braking sharper.

You know, I've only ever had brake fade once, and that was when I actually set out to try and make them fade, just to see what it would take. It took some very violent driving to make it happen. I think again, they are not all that bad, not great, but a hell of a lot better than my old car.

I agree some people may well need to look at their driving style if they are invoking brake fade easily.

Paul, have you been out in/driven a Furby vRS with Eibachs? The most noticeable difference between it and standard (apart from a huge reduction in body roll) is the lack of nose-diving and nose-lifting under braking and acceleration.....

Chris, I have not been out in one. This would be good for me because I could tell whether it was any good or not. The diving in braking is there, but again its all down to being smooth, I havent had a major problem with it.

- Seat upper strut brace -

[ecklad]

Lowering a cars suspension means that the damper has a harder job to do with a combination of shorter spring travel + a firmer spring...

the cheapest Max power lowering effect is to replace the standard springs with

firmer lowered... this puts the standard dampers under more stress..

There is benefits of fitting uprated dampers to standard springs.. as the uprated dampers can control the springs more effectively..

But this does not give much of a visual effect....

Lowered coilover suspension with 19inch wheels etc etc ... is ideal for the track,,

but not for the road....

Also it has to be remebered that a standard car has to appeal to a wide range of tastes

and some people will never be happy with it...

cheers

Dazz

[Chavyboy]

Sorry Paul yes precise, it makes the car turn with alot more precision.

[flatfourburble]

ok I'm not the most technically minded of people but other fitting the strut brace this is my though on it. Apart from making the front stiffer it does make more noise now travels through and picks up the bumps slightly more than PSB (pre-strut brace).

Turn in is quicker and you have more feel albeit as much as what you will get with PAS.

The cars set up PSB was good in my book, not to harsh and rides the bumps well making B road blasts fun without the hair-raising out of control feel that you get with a stiffer set-up (saxo VTS was terrible for this).

I've said it once and I'll say it again the fabia is a great little car and I love it to bit's the only reason I'd change for something else would be if I needed a bigger car!

Spend the

[pbirkett]

Thanks for that post flatfour, now I understand what its for.

I am grateful for all the posts in this thread, as I really did not know what some owners really thought of the suspension, but from my time on this board I perhaps got the impression it was not thought highly of due to the fact almost everyone seemed to want to change it.

Admittedly, it would be nice if the car looked lower, but I can live with that, other than that I am happy with the way it drives, and perhaps a bit more punch sometime in the future when I've got a bit more money spare will be on the agenda

[des_pd_ tdi]

Personally I am chuffed with the handling but as I said for

[robmawer]

Infact what car for the price does the Fabia VRs compete with?

Daihatsu YRV?

Rob.