I've read a couple of group tests recently (hey, if I can't drive my car yet, at least I can read about it!)

It seems quite common to test the Ibiza TDi FR, Polo GT TDi, and throw in a Clio and a Mini. The Fabia vRS gets completely ignored.

This strikes me as a bit strange. The Fabia is much closer in price to a Mini Cooper and a warmish Clio, yet it gets ignored for the other two more expensive VAG clones.

What's more, the last test I read (in Used Car Buyer) concludes that the Mini beats the Ibiza, even though the Ibiza gets more stars throughout the test. How do they arrive at these results?

Besides, am I alone in thinking that the Mini is resolutely a bird's car, or a car for blokes who are 'pour homme'? The Fabia definitely strikes me as blokey. (Nothing against women driving them, obviously: women can get away with driving blokey cars but the reverse can't be said!)

Slightly tongue in cheek, of course, but it does annoy me that the Mini wins all these tests because it's trendy...

I really am against putting a diesl up against petrol cars, if they need to do this then put it up against the likes of the Mini Diesel or the Clio Diesel then see what they have got to say about it them !

What's more' date=' the last test I read (in Used Car Buyer) concludes that the Mini beats the Ibiza, even though the Ibiza gets more stars throughout the test. How do they arrive at these results?

[/quote']

Because journalists are fickle and vain, and believe that we read their articles because we care what they think, rather than that we're interested in details about the cars.

Therefore, if they feel the Mini is better, no matter how much logic is applied to the debate the Mini will still win.

Also, if BMW provided a better buffet than Seat it will have an influence on proceedings!

Rob.

Ooo, you cynic.

I agree completely though!!

I really am against putting a diesl up against petrol cars, if they need to do this then put it up against the likes of the Mini Diesel or the Clio Diesel then see what they have got to say about it them !

Im not sure... i think modern Diesel cars are more than a match for petrol equivalents... but in the case of 5th gear and TG.. a fabia is faster round a track than a mini... woo... what about ridequality, build quality.. price, running costs.. how many bags of shopping etc!.

Also, if BMW provided a better buffet than Seat it will have an influence on proceedings!

Allegedly, your honour...

It's true though... I read the same article, and was confused also by the result, and by the fact that they didn't include the Fabia (although it is mentioned as an alternative in one corner), and also by the fact they continue to test petrol vs. diesel. Has anyone ever seen a saloon/exec test with petrol vs. diesel??? Although when the twin turbo diesel Vectra comes out I'm sure that will change...

It seems quite common to test the Ibiza TDi FR, Polo GT TDi, and throw in a Clio and a Mini. The Fabia vRS gets completely ignored

Not wanting to insight racial hatred within the realms of Briskoda or anything but it's more than plausable that the motoring publications in question don't consider the Fabia vRS worthy of hot hatch status hence why it's omitted from any group tests.

The Fabia definitely strikes me as blokey.

A Fabia a blokey car? Come on now you're having a laff. I'd agree it's less feminine than a Mini but if you want a blokey car you buy a 5 litre RWD TVR (or similar).......

Nothing like a bit of contoversy for my 1,000'th post.....

Im not sure... i think modern Diesel cars are more than a match for petrol equivalents[/b']... but in the case of 5th gear and TG.. a fabia is faster round a track than a mini... woo... what about ridequality, build quality.. price, running costs.. how many bags of shopping etc!.

It's not like for like though is it. One has a Turbo and one hasn't !

The diesel is inmost cases is going to be heavier anyway so not a fair comparison plus I didn't think Fabia vRS's are marketed as a hot hatch, it is marketed as a sports diesel.

It's not like for like though is it. One has a Turbo and one hasn't !

Indeed - they tend to compare 1.9 turbo diesel engines against 1.6 naturally aspirated petrol engines!

Rob.

Should compare them to 1.8T petrol engines...

However...the modern diesel is now a wonderfull thing. I had a Xantia TD, was great once going...but jumped into a 2.0 150BHp petrol...fab great nice and quick....then diesels started pulling away...enter stage left 1.8T remapped...Now you've done it again...The last bastion is calling...Twin Turbo V#...

I think the comparison in road tests is tough, so many things to choose from, different targets for the program let alone the car manufacturer.

Perhaps a case of a program for the sheep, those that don't wander of the paved road to much. Perhaps (extends olive branch) they think that there is also a group of drivers or potential owners that have the ability to make there own minds up and look beyond the tat, as such they don't give that area of the market much attention.

I don't think I've read a single car review for anything less than 50k and thought about what they say....anything above that I don't care what they say as I can't justify it, but the piccies are nice....turn the sound of play a cd...makes motoring programs far better.

Plus if it was up againts the Clio Sport 182 then that's not a fare as we are taling about a 2.0 litre 182bhp petrol verus a 1.9 130bhp diesel or even the 2.0 litre 197bhp civic type r.

Plus if it was up againts the Clio Sport 182 then that's not a fare as we are taling about a 182bhp petrol verus a 130bhp diesel.

Oh now it's back to BHP, pray what torque do thee have?

Oh now it's back to BHP' date=' pray what torque do thee have?

[/quote']

hehehe :P OK torque plays a big part but it's the combined values that count.

I was given an example of the 2 which I found great on explaining each one.

Torque = The amount of work that can be done in one movement !

BHP = Is how quickly you can do this work !

That's why lorries don't go like the clappers as they have low bhp but high torque.

I was given an example of the 2 which I found great on explaining each one.

Torque = The amount of work that can be done in one movement !

BHP = Is how quickly you can do this work !

That's why lorries don't go like the clappers as they have low bhp but high torque.

I would have thought its because they are carrying a Lorry full of goods/ heavy ass trailer

I think it's fair to compare petrol cars with diesels, if they cost about the same. After all, cost is the big decider, otherwise we'd all be driving around in Maybachs or Bugattis.

A good way to think of power is 'torque, times revs'. Diesels are reatively low powered because they can't rev as high as a petrol engine. However, in general, they'll stuff them at lower revs.

I think it's fair to compare petrol cars with diesels' date=' if they cost about the same. After all, cost is the big decider, otherwise we'd all be driving around in Maybachs or Bugattis.[/b']

A good way to think of power is 'torque, times revs'. Diesels are reatively low powered because they can't rev as high as a petrol engine. However, in general, they'll stuff them at lower revs.

In that case you could argue a

In that case you could argue a

Yeah' date=' you could!

But I'd always buy a car, because you probably won't die if it starts to rain. That's an important consideration to me.[/quote']

Dont forget the blindingly obvious you wont get Wet in a car when it rains.

Steve

I really am against putting a diesl up against petrol cars, if they need to do this then put it up against the likes of the Mini Diesel or the Clio Diesel then see what they have got to say about it them !

agree

agree

Thats because it wouldnt be fair on them.

Anyway, didnt they do that once, Ibiza Sport TDI v Polo 1.4 TDI v Mini One D in some mag. Unsurprisingly, the Ibiza walked it (but then it did have twice the power of the others).

As for the comments on the lack of vRS in the group tests, there has been some, but admittedly they do seem to get more overlooked than the others. There was one group test where they did the Cupra TDI and Polo GT, but said in a boxout that the Fabia was worth consideration, and labelled it an "excellent hot hatch" so its not because its not up to scratch IMO.

Personally, I think its the best of the 3, the Polo doesnt look as good and costs loads more and the Ibiza FR looks too lax flower and has a bubble car appearance.

yes I agree Paul Fab punches way above its weight... but if too many people knew about it owning ones wouldn't be as much fun... love it when people take the **** out of my car then cant keep up with it when I leave work...

P.s not even chipped yet