Because some people think no further than the end of the bonnet. It's like the people that at a merge in heavy traffic will pass the gap you've left them, to push their way in 10ft further down.

Or finish up trying to argue with the drive wheels on a heavy (normally with their SO and 4 children on board).

Do lorry drivers object to being given a quick flash when they're overtaking me, to tell them it's safe to go back left?

Quite the reverse IME (though it's rarely the case that they get a chance to overtake me).

Sometimes I can not be bothered with all of the messing around with getting annoyed with middle lane hoggers and being harassed by 125mph mondeo drivers and I just potter along at exactly 56mph in the left lane on cruise control, only really ever speeding up to 70-80mph and then moving out to lane 2 when I pass a sliproad that has traffic wishing to join the m'way on it.

It's boring and tedious but I end up a lot more relaxed and with a truck load more fuel left at the end of the journey

Some lorries overtake me because for some reason they are capable of travelling at a couple of mph faster than 56 (my gps speed) - not sure how this is achievable but there we go!

Edited 30 June, 200917 yr by yegnold

Sometimes I can not be bothered with all of the messing around with getting annoyed with middle lane hoggers and being harassed by 125mph mondeo drivers and I just potter along at exactly 56mph in the left lane on cruise control, only really ever moving out (and speeding up) when I pass a sliproad that has traffic wishing to join the m'way on it.

It's boring and tedious but I end up a lot more relaxed and with a truck load more fuel left at the end of the journey

I do that if the outside lane gets into that 90.....40.....90 pattern. It's a good thing to do if the cut & thrust just vgets too hard.

Some lorries overtake me because for some reason they are capable of travelling at a couple of mph faster than 56 (my gps speed) - not sure how this is achievable but there we go!

Tolerances- they're not all exactly 56, plus they can go faster downhill. That's why you sometimes get them overtaking each other for 2 miles.

ive sat in the inside lane on a dual carraigeway today in my lorry with my right indicator on to pull out, a black polo leaves me gap and as i start pulling out she quickly speeds into the space even through the traffic isnt moving much faster than me. Why do drivers have to do everything to get round/by a lorry?? next car gave me a friendly flash and got a big hand up to say thanks once i moved back to lane one and he went by.

No reason to have to get past a lorry, but if passing one on the motorway I generally get past as quick as possible.

You guys have a much harder job controlling your large heavy vehicles than we do. I am sure that most people have no idea how difficult it is to slow an HGV down or get it going again when momentum is lost.

The amount of times I see muppets on the roads diving in front of large HGV vehicles just before junctions etc is unbelieveable.

People also forget that HGV drivers drive for a living and are professional, IME a vast majority are good, courteous drivers who just need a little more consideration shown to them on the road.

Also you have to remember, the longer you spend on the road & motorways, the more idiots you see and the more easily agitated you become - you can't blame lorry drivers for occasionally being a little angry with us car drivers, given that they're on the roads all day and tend to actually know what they're doing!

Chris - thanks for that - and yes, I hate the 90-40-90 thing as well. I used to combat it by leaving a 5-6 second gap between me and the car in front and just letting go of the throttle/cancelling cruise when they started to show brake lights, but whenever I did that I ended up with a massive 4x4 porsche or BMW right on my rear bumper because they're not attentive enough to observe that I'm slowing down.

So now, I just join the rest of the crowd and show brake lights, ultimately resulting in a motorway standstill a few miles back, but what the hell - I'm a self-preservation kind of guy and I can not be bothered with the hassle of being rear-end shunted on the motorway, so I'd rather show brake lights and my car (and me) remain damage free, than drive "properly" and show that I'm anticipating what's going to happen (which I am - I always look 6-7-8 cars ahead to see if they're slowing)...

Also you have to remember, the longer you spend on the road & motorways, the more idiots you see and the more easily agitated you become

I don't. I used to, but I just don't let driving or other road users annoy me any more, and feel a lot better for it. Water off a ducks back these days: I have enough stress in my life without some twunt on the motorway adding to it.

I hate the 90-40-90 thing as well. I used to combat it by leaving a 5-6 second gap between me and the car in front and just letting go of the throttle/cancelling cruise when they started to show brake lights

I don't use the cruise that often, because steady-speed cruising just doesn't happen on my commute :-(.

It's boring and tedious but I end up a lot more relaxed and with a truck load more fuel left at the end of the journey

That's one way round it My solution was to invest in a sat nav and use more fun A and B roads where possible, although, it can add a significant amount of time onto a journey so isn't always practical. I'd rather burn fuel and be grinning, than save fuel and be miserable which often helps justify it

Chris

I used to combat it by leaving a 5-6 second gap between me and the car in front and just letting go of the throttle/cancelling cruise when they started to show brake lights, but whenever I did that I ended up with a massive 4x4 porsche or BMW right on my rear bumper because they're not attentive enough to observe that I'm slowing down.

How much of a gap? :eek:

Driving at 56 might be fine and make you happy, but it's really not a safe thing to do. Lorries and coaches are only limited to this speed for safety. Police and HATO use it so people will overtake them as the limit is 70. If you slow down then need to let the driver behind know what you're doing. For all you know they are dealing with a situation already which is diverting their attention from you!

Sorry to say, but doing 200 miles a day on average as I do, your style of driving is the one that stresses me out the most. because I'm waiting to see who takes you off the motorway!!! And as I'm spending more time on you, because you're a danger as well as those avoiding you are threatening my safety, I cant have my eyes everywhere!

Driving at 56 might be fine and make you happy, but it's really not a safe thing to do. Lorries and coaches are only limited to this speed for safety.

If lorries and coaches are limited to 56mph for safety, is a car driver doing this speed "unsafe"? I would think it only becomes unsafe if the speed the car is travelling is slower than the speed of lane 1, which would force lorries and coaches to overtake and then the ripple would be felt in the outer two lanes of the motorway?

Chris

Almost always they move into lane 2, still at 56mph to overtake a lorry with faster traffic using lane 2 now needing to use lane 3 to get around them.

The amount of times I see muppets on the roads diving in front of large HGV vehicles just before junctions etc is unbelieveable.

There has to be give and take. If they insist on driving in long convoys 20 ft apart in lane 1, and you need to exit at the junction, sometimes you have no choice (not saying I'm a last minute jockey here).

Alongside all the "difficulty losing speed and then regaining it" has to be set the "foot flat on the floor to maintain 56mph at all costs" brigade. You never know which kind of truck driver you're dealing with until you're in their close vicinity.

How much of a gap? :eek:

So what do you consider a safe gap?

Driving at 56 might be fine and make you happy, but it's really not a safe thing to do. Lorries and coaches are only limited to this speed for safety. Police and HATO use it so people will overtake them as the limit is 70. If you slow down then need to let the driver behind know what you're doing. For all you know they are dealing with a situation already which is diverting their attention from you!

Sorry to say, but doing 200 miles a day on average as I do, your style of driving is the one that stresses me out the most. because I'm waiting to see who takes you off the motorway!!! And as I'm spending more time on you, because you're a danger as well as those avoiding you are threatening my safety, I cant have my eyes everywhere!

Your eyes need to be scanning - an acronym you might use is "far, near, interior and rear". Once you've decided someone is not a danger to you, you can move on and look at something else. Like you, I sometimes get fixated, but all you have to do is keep reminding yourself to keep scanning.

Almost always they move into lane 2, still at 56mph to overtake a lorry with faster traffic using lane 2 now needing to use lane 3 to get around them.

Read Chris's post higher up about watching interaction between other vehicles - "the truck's catching up with the granny in the Morris Minor, he'll be pulling out, mirror ...". Try commentating to yourself, to help build up these patterns.

Remember minimum speed limits are present in only a very few places on our roads. Most motorways are not subject to them. Certain classes of vehicle are excluded, and occasionally the Police might stop someone and advise them that they would be safer not using the motorway, but it'll be a sad day when they start succumbing to social pressure from people like you and doing it to people driving at nearly 60mph, imho.

Edited 26 June, 200917 yr by ncarring

So what do you consider a safe gap?

I'm usually a 3sec man myself. 4 in wet conditions or reduced visibilty, but certainly not all the time. You're just inviting someone to fill your gap at 6 secs

You're just inviting someone to fill your gap at 6 secs

And that's to be avoided at all costs, right? :tipspecs:

And that's to be avoided at all costs, right? :tipspecs:

LOL, one car is fine, but what if 2 decide to fill it? They could but that leaves no margin at all.

2-3 secs is very tight, and unlikely *most* drivers would attempt to move into it. The ones that would you'll have spotted them before.

I'm usually a 3sec man myself. 4 in wet conditions or reduced visibilty, but certainly not all the time.

That's an interesting comment One of the things I try and get people I coach to think about is why they're leaving a certain sized gap. My normal following distance may be around 2 seconds in good conditions following a car, but if it's not giving me the long-range visibility I need to plan ahead, I will drop back further. Likewise, if I'm following something large, eg an HGV, I'll need significantly more than a 2 second follow to open up the view around it.

So if you leave a big gap and people cut into it, it's a minor annoyance that can be accommodated. If you don't have a view of the road ahead you're forced to drive on the person in front of you's brake lights and that's going to be stressful as well as a safety concern

Chris

LOL, one car is fine, but what if 2 decide to fill it? They could but that leaves no margin at all.

... and you won't have backed off to maintain the gap when the first one pulls out...?

2-3 secs is very tight, and unlikely *most* drivers would attempt to move into it. The ones that would you'll have spotted them before.

Sounds a bit as if "defending your territory" is more important to you than driving safely. Remember you're responsible for not just your own safety but everybody else's around you, on a busy motorway. Driving safely can be rewarding in that it forces you to concentrate harder, and therefore brings a greater satisfaction from doing it well.

I must say that I find motorway driving in a car much more stressful in a car than I do in a lorry.

You can see so much farther ahead in the lorry, most of the time I am only looking at the car or lorry in front of me in my peripheral vision, all my time is spent looking in the distance or in my mirrors.

That said a lot of military heavy vehicles will go a lot faster than 56.

When I was a young, skint and reckless fool I used to slipstream coaches to save fuel, they used to go a lot faster than 56 and are lower to the ground so they have a much bigger hole in the air behind them.

The savings were immense, I got to Dundee from Maidstone on just less than 30 litres of petrol.

But the total lack of view is unacceptable, I used to tell myself I can stop faster than a coach so I only need my thinking distance between us but that is a fallacy.

Every time I read one of these threads I shake my head at the way I used to drive.

Edited 27 June, 200917 yr by amateurstuntman
spoolong

... and you won't have backed off to maintain the gap when the first one pulls out...?

Yes, or changed lane.

Sounds a bit as if "defending your territory" is more important to you than driving safely. Remember you're responsible for not just your own safety but everybody else's around you, on a busy motorway. Driving safely can be rewarding in that it forces you to concentrate harder, and therefore brings a greater satisfaction from doing it well.

The first part of most driving courses is usually defensive driving. yes I do defend my space, but not at any cost.

Having covered, on average, 60k/year for the last 10 years without incident suggests that I do concentrate and drive fairly safely

The point I was making regarding 'pootling along' is that for everyone but the person doing it doesnt make them or others safer on the motorway. Quite the opposite IME from the many accidents I've seen, and the idiots joining a motorway too slowly. Driving too slowly is as bad as driving too fast.

And yes I know 70 is a limit for a motorway and not a target.

ive found taking the old A and B roads to be more fun these days.

The first part of most driving courses is usually defensive driving. yes I do defend my space, but not at any cost.

Defensive driving is NOT "defending your space". If you've been on a course and taken away that thought, the course failed! Defensive driving is about protecting your SAFETY (and that of those around you), and making allowances for the actions of others.

Having covered, on average, 60k/year for the last 10 years without incident suggests that I do concentrate and drive fairly safely

It suggests you've driven an awful lot of miles - 200 / day, including 50% of the weekend days of the year. I guess you're a courier, or something along those lines?

The point I was making regarding 'pootling along' is that for everyone but the person doing it doesnt make them or others safer on the motorway. Quite the opposite IME from the many accidents I've seen, and the idiots joining a motorway too slowly. Driving too slowly is as bad as driving too fast.

A "super driver" like you shouldn't be worried in the slightest by the "pootlers" as you rather disparagingly refer to them. Naturally you will have spotted them from at least half a mile away and taken the appropriate action.

I assume you've taken some advanced driver training?

Service engineer is my job, and no not done an advanced course like IAM. Money finds other needs all the time. i also checked discounts when insurance was due, and didnt make a big enough difference to my quotes to justify the outlay v recovery of savings.

I did do a mini-defensive driving course around 9 years ago thanks to an employer wanting to lower their insurance risk, and have a family member's partner that's in the police who is doing their roadcraft bit (reassesment due?) - and my driving is no better or worse than his. They're not afraid to comment on driving either, as SWMBO will testify

Edited 28 June, 200917 yr by gadgetman
missed out 'mini'

gadgetman, thanks for your input, but I set the cruise to match the speed of lane 1, which I didn't make clear really in my post. It just so happens that most of the time that happens to be 56mph due to the speed of the traffic that is restricted to 56mph and therefore sticks in lane 1 .

I am willing to change, though. Could you please explain to me why when I stick at the same speed as everything else in lane 1 I am endangering anyone else at all?

I pay attention just as much as when I'm anywhere else on the motorway. If traffic wishes the join the motorway and I'm going to be in the way, I speed up to match the speed of lane 2 and move out, returning to lane 1 only when there's a gap I can use.

Lorries overtake me but only because I'm sat behind another lorry that is going slower than the one overtaking me - I am certainly not the slowest vehicle in lane 1

I am more than happy to take on board your constructive critcism and change my driving to match what the majority of people deem to be safe, after all, I am still learning! Maybe when I get around to going with an advanced driver I will be shown the best way to deal with the problems I find on motorways!

Oh, and I forgot to mention, a lot of the time I can indeed be found doing 70 - 80mph (and yes - sometimes more..), but in high traffic levels (which were being discussed earlier I believe) I find sticking in lane 1 easiest and it causes me the least amount of hassle .

Almost always they move into lane 2, still at 56mph to overtake a lorry with faster traffic using lane 2 now needing to use lane 3 to get around them.

Sorry, missed this bit. Whenever I move in to lane 2 I always make sure I match my speed to the speed of lane 2 first. I am able to do this because I leave a big enough gap between me and the car in front in lane 1, so my process is:

Check space in front, check rear view mirror, check wing mirror, check blind spot, increase speed to that of middle lane, check wing mirror & blind spot & rear view mirror again, move out, pass slower moving vehicle in left lane, check inside wing mirror, check inside blind spot, move back in to lane 1, return to previous cruise speed in lane 1 .

Also missed all of the interesting posts from yourself, ncarring and Chris on this second page - all very interesting and very helpful. As mentioned in my last post I'm more than happy to learn off older and more experienced drivers, as long as they give decent reasons for their opinions/driving style differences