why can they be sold if they are such a danger then?

Because they usually go in a straight line on motorways.

There is a huge element of exaggeration here of course

Compared to the competition it might understeer if provoked, but by driving smoothly, and to the conditions, the competent driver wouldn't have a problem

Is this the Irmscher one you posted the other day?

very nice, ignore the naysayers

Had just replied in the other thread, then noticed you've gone ahead.

Hope you enjoy it & it serves you well.

I was going to ask the same as daiking. It looked quite nice. I don't see the hang up on vauxhalls. Mum's astra is a cracking car and they go well enough. I hope you enjoy your new motor - especially as its a present from your misses!

wow, positive comments;)

yeah its that one, hopefully it will be good in a straight line though coz as soon as i come to a bend im hitting the nearest wall by the looks of things!

end of the day its a present, i did like it, its alot of performance on a budget, and its a family sized car, ticks all the boxes and im happy with it. might not be peoples cup of tea but neither was my vrs but i didnt care about the stick i got

Funnily enough I had a go in one of these the other week. I was pleasantly surprised by the nice smooth engine which had a fair amount of poke and I can't say I noticed "terminal understeer" or lack of feel through the wheel, but each to their own.

Of course it's not a patch on the Mondeo

Enjoy

Chris

I was going to ask the same as daiking. It looked quite nice. I don't see the hang up on vauxhalls. Mum's astra is a cracking car and they go well enough. I hope you enjoy your new motor - especially as its a present from your misses!

They are often a bit dull to look at and I'm not keen on the hard shiny plastic they tend to use on the dash , but they can make some very good buys secondhand.

Have you seen how cheap some of the Signums are?

Im too impressed by the amount of car you get for your money. I bought my last Octavia (last year for £3.5k) - 1.6 with only 53K on the clock. Now that seems a hell of a lot for a 1.6 which is nothing special, however the prices have crashed a bit since then so I don't feel so bad. I did get 12 months warranty, and ended up with my current car as the other one was so bad.

Even so I think what your getting is very well priced.

You'll need one of these,

Seriously though enjoy, Thats a hell of a lot of car for the money!

this is what i mean, i would have gone for the mondeo every time, but the only mondeos were like at minimum £2000 over what i was going to spend

Hope you enjoy it.

I have been brought up with vauxhalls and sometimes I wish I still had my corsa sport (I loved it but sadly I crashed it) :( I would have another one tomorrow or any other vauxhall for that matter as personally I think they are excellent cars, the VXR range is very nice to say the least ! :drool:

Every car no matter what make or model has its problems and negative points !

Look at the cars skoda was making all them years ago they were a laughing stock but they have come a long way since then and have now built up a good reputation,

I ignored all the negative comments I heard about them and had to see for my self so here I am with the vrs and I cant fault it, it meets my needs perfectly and I cant fault it ! My dad is even looking at getting a skoda after having vauxhalls for god knows how many years !

As it has already been said you can only have what you can afford

All I can say is enjoy the GSi and I'm sure you will, they are very nice cars and pretty quick too

Edited 7 August, 200916 yr by r1chard

modeo every time. ive owned an ST24 and an ST200 and they were absolutley fantastic. I could not fault them. im a mega fan of ford, had loads of them, and my money would have been there given your choice.

they came top of all the tests/surveys for a reason, because they were awesome.

As a point of interest the ST220 is quicker around a track than the new focus ST, largely due to its handling balance.

Sorry mate, but you should have got the Scooby.

Even though it was free, I would pay the extra for it. Car of the year how many times???

As long as the missus is happy bud, at the end of the day thats all that really matters here

wow, positive comments;)

hopefully it will be good in a straight line though coz as soon as i come to a bend im hitting the nearest wall by the looks of things!

There's one concelation though, at least you wont end up on your roof like alot of Fabia vRS's do

Any car will understeer if provoked enough and providing you are driving within the limits of the road the car and the driver it wont understeer so I wouldn't worry.

I hope you enjoy the car, I would have made the same choice given what other cars you were looking at and would have got a piccie up somehow as my Avatar by now

as a brand new buy i really can't understand why anyone bought one,you could have had a milion times more motor for the price,as a second hand buy i think they are superb,all the kit,plenty of power comfy motorway cruiser a bit thirsty but you can't have everything at the end of the day and for the second hand price not much matches em

as a brand new buy i really can't understand why anyone bought one,you could have had a milion times more motor for the price,as a second hand buy i think they are superb,all the kit,plenty of power comfy motorway cruiser a bit thirsty but you can't have everything at the end of the day and for the second hand price not much matches em

thats a very good point, as i said the mondeo ST's that were of similiar standard were at least £2000 more, the reason i was more pulled towards the vectra than the scoob is the things that come with them, xenons, multi changer, electrics all round, side airbags, half leather interior, centre armrest, cruise control, air con, trip computer, and more, alot of scoobs in the same price bracket didnt even have head units as owners were taking them out the car let alone cruise and trip computer, it was alot to do with standard kit aswell

Reply to #25 - Most people don't care about driving and/or properly understand understeer. Understeer is the front end of the car washing wide of the commanded line, rather than the driver failing to apply sufficient lock. Also, I didn't say it was dangerous; just that it was undesirable.

Reply to #25 - Most people don't care about driving and/or properly understand understeer. Understeer is the front end of the car washing wide of the commanded line, rather than the driver failing to apply sufficient lock. Also, I didn't say it was dangerous; just that it was undesirable.

i know what it is and understand how it works, think alot more relies on driver ability to be honest

i know what it is and understand how it works, think alot more relies on driver ability to be honest

I'm more concerned about the lack of steering feel, resulting in a total lack of driver confidence, and an inability to position the car properly in the competent, and a misplaced overconfidence in the incompetent. Trust me; I know I'm faster and safer when I've got steering feel.

I'm more concerned about the lack of steering feel, resulting in a total lack of driver confidence, and an inability to position the car properly in the competent, and a misplaced overconfidence in the incompetent.

Would that be a problem with the car, or a problem with the driver?

Chris

Would that be a problem with the car, or a problem with the driver?

Chris

I presume you know a number of people whom you'd regard as competent drivers. Are they more likely to complain about a lack of steering feel, or about too much of it? Other than in things like Locaterfields, I've never known anyone complain about "too much steering feel", but I'm far from alone in feeling that 1980s through 2005 (no experience of current range yet) Vauxhalls suffer from too little steering feel.

I presume you know a number of people whom you'd regard as competent drivers. Are they more likely to complain about a lack of steering feel, or about too much of it?

The competent drivers I respect tend not to complain about a car's characteristics. Why would they? They're competent drivers and can drive any car to a very high standard. All cars give "feel" and it's being able to read that which is the skill.

A bad workman (and motoring journalists ) always blames his tools and all that

Chris

The competent drivers I respect tend not to complain about a car's characteristics. Why would they? They're competent drivers and can drive any car to a very high standard. All cars give "feel" and it's being able to read that which is the skill.

A bad workman (and motoring journalists ) always blames his tools and all that

Chris

"All cars give feel" - True in principle, but some give so little of it that you can't reliably detect where the limit is until you're over it. To take the Octy vs Vectra comparison I came in with, the Vectra was into terminal understeer with no discernable change in steering feel on one bend, where the Octy (with less theoretical grip unless it had a better tyre brand) still hadn't reached its limit, and I wasn't going that fast in either. To me, that's a car problem. All a good driver can do to compensate is drive slower!!The corollary to "a bad workman..." is that a craftsman doesn't choose bad tools, and will tell others when he finds bad tools. I have no idea where this places muttering rotters!!