Motorcycles and dangerous roads

[vrsfab]

Got up earlyish this morning with the intention of having a quick blast over a few of my favourite roads in derbyshire. As a few of you know I am involved in either organising or helping Yashicamat organise the C&F runs, so I was heading out through Cromford on the A5012 (known locally as Via-Gellia) onto the A515 (Ashbourne to Buxton) then across the Staffordshire Moorlands and onto the A537 (Cat & Fiddle), some of the best local roads but also some of the UK's most notorious for accidents.

As I left Cromford the road climbs and winds through a steep sided valley, it is quite a difficult road to drive quickly and a bit of local knowledge makes it much easier. On a long straight towards the top with no side roads or junctions I notice a white van tucked in on the grass verge which turns out to be an unmarked camera van with a couple of police motorcycles, now this spot has been on my Talex for years but this year it has had a van nearly every time I go past it. I carried on to the A537 and pass an umarked BMW on the climb out of Buxton and then just before the C&F pub is another camera van. By now it's pretty obvious that driving in a spirited manor is not going to be a good idea, so I leave the main road and take a scenic potter home on country lanes feeling a bit dissapointed.

What I'm about to say was sparked by watching a "police, camera, crash" style program that are so popular these days. Let's take the A537 as an example of the problem, it is a nice road to drive, wide, in good condition, hilly, with loads of bends that tighten as you get into them, in summary - enjoyable to those of us that like using our performance cars. The TV prog went on about how it was in the top few of the most dangerous roads in the UK and went on to justify the reducing of the speed limit to 50, the use of camera vans and unmarked cars/bikes to slow things down. Then came the "Eureka moment" for me when the traffic cop says "if you take motorcycles out of the statistics, it is one of the safest". For me this says it all - if the motorcyclists can't ride in a manor where they can stay in control of their machines, then ban motorcycles from that road instead of totally over policing the entire area and making it a nightmare for those of us that have enough self control to drive in a manor suitable for the conditions.

I have had motorcycles when I was younger (I'm 41 now) and enjoyed them, so I'm not anti-motorcycle but what does p!ss me off is the war against speed anytime and anywhere that has been sparked on the A537 for example, by the actions of a particular group of road users.

Discuss...................

Edited 15 August, 2009 by vrsfab

[Dr Zoidberg]

You seem to be saying that motorcyclists are responsible for the police making it harder for you to ignore the law.......

[fikes75]

And round where i live ,the particular group of motorists are young car drivers ,reduction in speed limit from 60 mph to 50 and police everywhere ,feels like i spend more time looking at the speedo than the road, and no i don't speed on that stretch of road it's just that it's only changed recently and it's taking a little time to adjust, and it's not a bad stretch of road if you drive sensibly .

[Babs]

Motorcyclists are nutters, is what the police was saying then?

[Evening Star]

There seems to a strange misconception that speed kills. Speed does NOT kill, if speed killed then we'd all be virtually stationary.

Like I said it's not the speed that kills, it's the impact or the abrupt stop that does it.

The trouble is there's nowhere where people can go for a damned good blast in either their cars or bikes & get IT out of their systems, I mean in Germany they can go for a blast around the Nurburgring, a facility we don't have here.

The reason & the only reason we've got this anti speeding mentality here is that it saves MONEY! and it gives the authorities to screw the motorist for more MONEY...

It's been proven numerous times that speed cameras actually increase the accident rate where they're located & they increase traffic congestion!

.

Why is it that Swindon, Wokingham & possibly Bournemouth are scrapping cameras?

Because they don't get the revenue, they cause animosity, regularly vandalised & are costly to run & maintain.

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone speed outside of schools, but on straight clear roads or motorways, all it is, is money raising, nothing to do with safety at all.

I Forgot to add, I'm a biker too, albeit only occasionally now, but I do ride a GSX-R 750 K7 & learning to ride a bike actually improved my car driving because it's made me far more spatially aware of not only bikes, but other road users.

Edited 15 August, 2009 by Indiana Jones

[Mr Ree]

I wasn't going to reply to tjhis thread as it got my back up regarding my absolute pet hate. Sorry, temptation got in the way.

Sunday afternoon WANABEE 'racing' bike riders

If you want to watch these utter utter suicidal clowns driving back from the Ponderosa cafe on the top of the Hoeseshoe Pass in N.Wales, the A550 at 2 Mills crossroads traffic lights is the place to camp out and watch with disbelief every Sunday.

1+ mile long single cariageway straight used as the local drag strip.

I won't go on about it too much, as I really do appreciate there are some decent sensible and bike loving enthusiasts out there and in here, but last Sunday as just one of many examples, I turned into this road at the lights from the Chester direction.

There at the lights, halted and waiting for the lights to change in their favour, were 8 bikers, and one quad.

I said to the missus and kids, "wait for it, any second now"

True to form, 10 seconds later I saw in my mirror the headlights rising to the sky as they popped the wheelies, and I'm NOT exagerrating when the first of them came scorching past me at well over 100mph, rapidly follwed by his crazy brain dead mates.

Double white lines and cars coming in the opposite direction had no affect on their downright bloody dangerous behaviour whatsoever.

I despair at these antics of a minority, albeit a rather large minority, especially on a Sunday it seems.

Never a rozzer in sight though sadly.

[ap0gee1978]

:+1: Surely the challenge with roads like C&F is how you deal with the bends, not whether you can break the speed limit in a straight line. If the police cameras / cars / bikes keep at least some of the people with that mentality off technical roads, then maybe I won't have to yo-yo behind drivers / riders who crawl through the bends but then race off on the straights so I can't pass without breaking the law... :thumbdwn:

[Dr Zoidberg]

It's been proven numerous times that speed cameras actually increase the accident rate where they're located

I think you are talking crap.

Where is the evidence for this?

I'm not talking about footage of a couple of drivers standing on the brakes and crashing , but a proper study into accident rates.

[vRS G60]

The road past my house, the A682 from Barrowford through Gisburn and on to Long Preston, is on the top 10 most dangerous roads list. And Mainly down to the amount of accidents by motor cyclists.

Most sunny weekends there are droves of bikers belting past ny house, sometimes 20 at a time. It's not the speed that bothers me, but the ridiculous loud exhausts they have on the bikes. Bloody hell, it was quieter at the Nurburgring.

[Lance]

Wow, another Briskie hate campaign.......lets do the 4x4's and BMW's later.

Yawn ****ing yawn......kneejerk BS.

IMO

If the cap fits, then wear it......if it doesn't,then ignore

[pete8tch]

hmmm , i went out last friday over the cat and fiddle with the mrs in the mx5, just on the last left hander which is a 90 degree blind bend , some brain dead t**t in a lotus 7 thing decides to go past me , the car in front and a truck , he must have turned into the bend literally on the wrong side of the road ,its not bikers or drivers its total brain dead idiots risking somebody else getting killed and having a total disregard for the law and everybody else, ridden for years and love it but i have a sense of self preservation and a sense of responsibility ,thats what keeps me alive and keeping a license.

its not whats being driven , its how and by whom that bothers me.

[vrsfab]

You seem to be saying that motorcyclists are responsible for the police making it harder for you to ignore the law.......

I can see what you're saying and yes maybe that's right but what I was hoping for was a run peaking at 70ish on the straights and enjoying threading a few bends together. On the twisty sections it would be hard for most cars to exceed the speed limit by a huge amount but still loads of bikers seem to get into difficulties.

[vrsfab]

Wow, another Briskie hate campaign.......lets do the 4x4's and BMW's later.

Yawn ****ing yawn......kneejerk BS.

IMO

If the cap fits, then wear it......if it doesn't,then ignore

Lance,

Not a hate campaign, from me at least, just a request for your opinion as to the answer to the problem. I forgot to mention that on todays run I didn't see any bikers doing anything daft but the local police force thinks there is a problem and so goes into overkill up there. Sorry mate no offence intended and we have got a BMW Z4 so you can get me back later;)

[vrsfab]

hmmm , i went out last friday over the cat and fiddle with the mrs in the mx5, just on the last left hander which is a 90 degree blind bend , some brain dead t**t in a lotus 7 thing decides to go past me , the car in front and a truck , he must have turned into the bend literally on the wrong side of the road ,its not bikers or drivers its total brain dead idiots risking somebody else getting killed and having a total disregard for the law and everybody else, ridden for years and love it but i have a sense of self preservation and a sense of responsibility ,thats what keeps me alive and keeping a license.

its not whats being driven , its how and by whom that bothers me.

Absolutely agree with you on the last sentence, but what I'm asking on the C&F is why so many bikers fall foul of the road, is it a driver training issue that needs to be looked at before you get to Blades, Hyabusas,R1's and the like. On the OP it's the fact that the road is deemed safe statistically untill you put bikes back into the equation that led me to ask - should they be banned from that road.

[vrsfab]

Motorcyclists are nutters, is what the police was saying then?

No, what he was saying is that an unusually high number of motorcycles come to grief on this stretch of road, a disproportionally high number compared to most other roads.

[pixi]

Is this the same car forum that was encouraging someone to go for the direct access course only last week?

[vRSLen]

I used to ride the C&F every Sunday night on my ZZR1100 and never had a problem

[Lance]

Lance,

Not a hate campaign, from me at least, just a request for your opinion as to the answer to the problem. I forgot to mention that on todays run I didn't see any bikers doing anything daft but the local police force thinks there is a problem and so goes into overkill up there. Sorry mate no offence intended and we have got a BMW Z4 so you can get me back later;)

No worries mate, and no offence taken and my pop wasn't aimed at you, apologies if it seemed so.

These threads often lead The anti bike brigade to rise to the top and set off the organ donor stuff. For some reason, it seems that when someone (inc a few on here) has a bad experience with a **** on a bike, the whole lot of us get tarnished.

As it happens, I had just got in from a 60 mile ride out on my bike and been almost collected by a bloke in a volvo, who c0cked up at a roundabout. I tooted, he stopped, situation over. At no point did I consider that all Volvo drivers, or indeed all drivers are kn0bs. Why though do the anti bike lot do this?

I'm quite happy to agree, that many bikers ride like effing idiots, but not all of do.

Pete8tch's last sentence is spot on IMO.

Cheers

Lance (chilled)

[Lance]

Lance,

Not a hate campaign, from me at least, just a request for your opinion as to the answer to the problem. I forgot to mention that on todays run I didn't see any bikers doing anything daft but the local police force thinks there is a problem and so goes into overkill up there. Sorry mate no offence intended and we have got a BMW Z4 so you can get me back later;)

Oh , and........I'm after a Z4:D, which one you got?

My current car isn't really upto the job at the Nurburgring, and as I really enjoy the convertible thing a Z4 seems a good choice.........how do you like yours:thumbup:?

[Babs]

At no point did I consider that all Volvo drivers, or indeed all drivers are kn0bs. Why though do the anti bike lot do this?

But Volvo drivers are kn0bs?

I think the problem is we have these preaching campaigns like "think bike", but driver's wouldn't have to be told that if there was some more road discipline shown.

I for one watch for bikers because I know they can - and very often will - appear out of no where at a massive speed, and if the brain dead f*ckwit crashes into me, I know I'll be to blame because my psychic abilities failed to predict it.

Now, car drivers aren't perfect (especially those in Volvo's....), and seem to forget about the actual business of driving, including being aware of other road users.

There needs to be a bit of give and take, but bad drivers/riders on both sides need to be stopped.

At the end of the day, it's bad road use, so should be stopped. Which obviously speed cameras do a brilliant job at

[Mr Ree]

I won't go on about it too much, as I really do appreciate there are some decent sensible and bike loving enthusiasts out there and in here,

I despair at these antics of a minority, albeit a rather large minority, especially on a Sunday it seems.

Just to get it straight that I'm NOT tarring all bikers with the same brush, and I'm NOT jumping on a Brisky hate campaign bandwagon or witch hunt.

I would be equally as livid if I witnessed such antics from a car driver of any marque, BMW, 4x4 or even a Skoda, heaven help us.

(They tend to come out to play at night time around here driving Clio's Saxo's and Corsa's.)

I was merely pointing out the seemingly never ending tiresome behaviour of these Sunday loonies on 2 wheels.

I've actually met a couple of these 'weekenders' to talk to in the course of my job, and they claim that it's just a form of release and to gain an adrenilin rush and buzz.

Some of them openly brag about doing 150+ on the motorway....AND A roads :eek:.... for a 'bit of laugh'. :rotz:

On the other hand I've also witnessed pleenty of really decent riders (normally during the week) who obey the rules of the road, and ride with total commitment skill and common courtesy.

Edited 15 August, 2009 by Mr Ree

[cvennall]

Like I said it's not the speed that kills, it's the impact or the abrupt stop that does it

Totally agree, but could also add, that speed in itself is not always dangerous, but the mis-use of speed almost always is. What we often complain about is the other person doing something at a speed that we are uncomfortable with. 60mph in a 30 zone is far more dangerous than 90 on an open motorway/dual carriageway/ long straight. Three drivers were in my local paper recently for exceeding 100mph on a stretch of local A class road. All were banned. And these were separate incidents, not 3 guys racing. The section in question is a 2 mile straight, kerbed, flat, no trees on the edges, no telegraph poles. There was no mention in the paper of poor visibility, or adverse conditions, or unsafe vehicles. If no-one else was around (apart from the police) then lets be honest, they were probably doing no harm.If only we could have a sensible attitude towards speed in this country coupled with adequate driver training.

All us car drivers would be better drivers if we had to experience riding any form of 2-wheeled transport for 12 months. The increased awareness needed to ride a bike and survive would be one step towards better driving.

The police need to try and stop people mis-using speed...... a sunny Sunday on any decent road in this country is almost definately not the place to be exceeding any speed limit. Too many other road users not paying attention. But, at other times ....... make your own minds up.

I am not someone who would have to pick up the pieces if it all went wrong, I wouldn't have to tell anyones family that an accident had taken place, and I really admire the people who do these jobs.

But I enjoy driving quickly when I feel that the conditions are right, I know my car is in good condition, I know I am fully awake and alert, I know that there are no other road users around. Any decision to exceed the speed limit should be conscious and thought out, not something that happens by accident. It takes more skill to drive at the plated limit than to ignore it, and you don't really have to keep checking the speedo all the time, your other senses tell you what speed you are doing. I won't speed in town - I drive like I have 11 points on my licence, I won't speed in 40 or 50 limits..... but where the national speed limit applies, if all the conditions are right, then I might decide to...

Speed cameras are just a money earner. They cannot improve driver standards, only modify behaviour for a short time. Sometimes, in accident blackspots, they might be placed for a reason. They should be outside every school in the country and be on all the time.

Ok long rant over.

The great driving roads in the country are spoiled now by too much traffic most of the time. If we are lucky enough to be on one when it is clear, then let's just remember how lucky we are.

[fluffmeister]

Wow, another Briskie hate campaign.......lets do the 4x4's and BMW's later.

Yawn ****ing yawn......kneejerk BS.

IMO

If the cap fits, then wear it......if it doesn't,then ignore

I like the fact that the OP classed a Fabia vRS as a performance car :D

[fluffmeister]

I used to ride the C&F every Sunday night on my ZZR1100 and never had a problem

I have been up most Sundays when the weather is good enough since 2000, still here.

[vRSLen]

I have been up most Sundays when the weather is good enough since 2000, still here.

I must get over there again soon. It was easy to get to when I lived in Stockport, but it's

a bit further from Yorkshire