But you've probably blinded every oncoming motorist with the glare that you've created for the last 3 years too

I've check the glare is ok put it up against a wall and a stright line, plus even france when I got pulled over for speeding and the copper there didnt seam to mind and they would fine you for everything they could!

It more of an issue in non-clear lense and older cars I think as how well the headlights are anlines and wheather you use they dip angle? toggle, I run on -1.5? becuase that give enough light falward or its too high up.

I've check the glare is ok put it up against a wall and a stright line, plus even france when I got pulled over for speeding and the copper there didnt seam to mind and they would fine you for everything they could!

It more of an issue in non-clear lense and older cars I think as how well the headlights are anlines and wheather you use they dip angle? toggle, I run on -1.5? becuase that give enough light falward or its too high up.

It's an issue in anything without a projector because the light source is in a different place and concentrated on a point not a full length filament. As such the reflector can't work as it was intended to and you get scatter.

I'll be honest I really want to see a clam down on these as unfortunately there are enough people who think they are fine in any car. Last night an escort with some 6k or bluer bulbs was blinding me for miles down the road.

It's an issue in anything without a projector because the light source is in a different place and concentrated on a point not a full length filament. As such the reflector can't work as it was intended to and you get scatter.

Perhaps you'd like to have a go at explaining how a point source placed on the line of the element can be less well focussed than light from that point on the element that was replaced? I'll agree that if the plasma arc is outside the line of the element it's not correctly focused.

The HID brings all it's light from a single point, which due to the nature of plasma will move around slightly in operation of the arc. The filament provides a light output all the way along the element.

The reflector is designed with the second case in mind and so with a much brighter "point" light source what is focuses is either too bright and reflects of other surfaces causing scatter or is not in the place where the light source was expected.

For example a H7 bulb gives an expected range for where the light source must be, but the H7 HID bulbs I saw, the light source was well outside this range.

That means the reflector won't work as expected.

Also most H7/H4 bulbs have a coating on the tip to stop forward projection of light, but the HID bulbs don't. When used in a car with out a device to block the forward light you will also end up with issues of reflection or even direct projection of the light forward from the light source causing drivers issues.

Which comes down to bad design AFAICS; I'll agree that a plasma arc can "wiggle", but since headlight elements are springs, so can they.

If the plasma arc is outside the line of the conventional element it replaces, then it's clearly not fit for its advertised purpose of replacing an HN bulb. Similarly in the case of an H4 if the blackout cap and/or dip shield are absent.

I've never seen an H7 bulb, but I know H1s don't have blackout caps.

Which comes down to bad design AFAICS; I'll agree that a plasma arc can "wiggle", but since headlight elements are springs, so can they.

If the plasma arc is outside the line of the conventional element it replaces, then it's clearly not fit for its advertised purpose of replacing an HN bulb. Similarly in the case of an H4 if the blackout cap and/or dip shield are absent.

I've never seen an H7 bulb, but I know H1s don't have blackout caps.

Purely for information H7 does have one.

I ran both Philips Xtreme +80% and Osram Nightbreakers in H7. The Nightbreakers lasted around 6 months (driving school car) with both bulbs failing within a few hours of each other. The Philips Xtreme consistently last 13 months of driving school use (around 50,000 miles a year with lights on in bad weather or at night), this being the case over 4 years using H7 and H4 (in the Mini).

I have a set of Philips Xtreme in the MR2 and they have been in it since just after I bought it back in 2006. The car does less than 10,000 miles per year, but the ride is rock hard, so they tolerate vibration well.

I think that overall, the Nightbreakers seem to produce a more blue coloured light, but the Xtremes let you see better.

On the subject of HID conversions, there are a lot of reasons not to. I have seen a Fabia with a conversion and it was really bad for direct light coming from the "bulb" causing very bad glare for oncoming traffic. There are some applications where you can sort of get away with it, but even then, most times the light pattern shows hot spots which, due to their brightness, can actually reduce vision outside of the area immediately in front of the car and also, unless mains are HID as well, reduce the effectiveness of the eye when initially on main beam (or continuously if they stay lit when main is on).

Then there is scatter. A headlight shell is designed to produce an illumination pattern in front of the car. This pattern on, dipped beams, consists of a bright lower segment (forward and below the axis of the headlight apart from the nearside flick up) and a less bright upper segment that is meant to be less for seeing and more for being seen. If you go putting an HID burner into a stock headlight shell, you will not be able to achieve a setup that provides a good reach for the brighter dipped segment without producing excessively bright (and therefore hazardous) levels of light in the upper less bright section of the pattern.

I really wanted to fit HIDs to three cars I had (Fabia, Omega, MR2), but after extensive research and looking at lots of aftermarket installs, I came to the conclusion that I could not do it without causing problems for other road users or as some of the chavvy types round here do, setting the dips so low that they look more like fog lights, illuminating a short very bright patch just in front of the car and using the scatter to drive by.

If anyone thinks their after market HID setup is good, I suggest that they go out and get followed by their own car.

Chris

Chris, I agree with you about the efects of light "hotspots", which is why I hate the misuse of front foglamps so much.

I still stand by the argument that a correctly designed HID bulb replacement will not dazzle oncoming traffic. If manufacturers are not designing HID bulb replacements correctly, that's a different argument.

Chris, I agree with you about the efects of light "hotspots", which is why I hate the misuse of front foglamps so much.

I still stand by the argument that a correctly designed HID bulb replacement will not dazzle oncoming traffic. If manufacturers are not designing HID bulb replacements correctly, that's a different argument.

I have seen the occasional setup where it sort of worked, usually in projector headlamps. A mates VXR220 conversion went quite well, apart from the N/S bulb arc being so far out of position that the alignment was not within range of the adjusters. Dipped beam above axis light was still conspicuously bright though and I always prefer to follow him than lead.

Fact is that the halogen headlight shell is designed to have a certain amount of light output above the dipped beam. Multiplying this by a factor of 3 or 4 is not good for other road users and you cannot put in a 3 or 4 times brighter bulb without doing this unless it is countered with tinting of the headlight glass in strategic positions. Best case applications minimise the problems, but still create a problem, particularly in dark lanes where the O/C car with HID conversion will bleach out the night vision of facing traffic. Unfortunately, 99% of these conversions are nowhere near best case.

Don't get me started on front fogs:rant:

Chris

I've seen threads like this on so many car sites going round & round & round...........

One thing that most don't mention is the effect on more vulnerable road users - I've lost count of the number of times I've been blinded by badly-adjusted lights or wrongly-fitted HID bulbs when I've been on my bike at night - the lights reflect off any tiny scratch on my visor and taking one hand off the bars to shield my eyes is even more dangerous - zooming at 70 mph praying that the road is just to the left of the lights and there isn't a pothole or island in the way is an interesting experience.

So, please, think of bikers & don't fit HID bulbs without the proper lenses.

Retrofitting HIDS without HID lensese is wrong, plain wrong. HID & Halogen lights have different lens because the bulb emissions are different. You have to fit HID reflectors so as not to dazzle other road users and you may get other beam-distribution problems (the HID kit H4 on my bike is fantastic on dip but cr*p on main because of this problem).

Furthermore HID-fit cars have to have self-levelling mechanisms, to avoid dazzling other road users when laden, and headlamp washers (although some cars mechanisms are an insult to washing).

Of course, you can pass the MoT with HIDs in Halogen-lenses as the test isn't rigorous enough - some are lucky, others aren't. However, it won't be long before the Govt catches up.

At the end of the day, do everyone a favour (the owner included) and fit either a full HID conversion, lens and all, or the legal halogen-replacement high power bulbs (see Autoexpress).

Oh, I'd advise you not to trust info on some supplier's websites, they are sometimes wrong. In general, you need H4 for a combined dip/main bulb, H1 for a main-only bulb & H7 for a dip-only bulb - check the manual or take the existing bulbs out & read the inscriptions.

I ran a HiD setup in my Octy for a short while, and all was well, until I got pulled over by a Police car. He asked why my headlights were so bright and I told him. I was then informed that it was in fact illegal to install a HiD system into ANY headlight that was not originally designed to have a High Intesnity Discharge system.

I informed the officer that my vehicle had passed an MOT with this set-up and he said it shouldn't have as the glare was tremendous.

I had to remove the kit and take my car to an MOT testing station and then produce my documents. I will never re-fit one to a halogen designd headlamp again.

Oh, and sorry to DP, but Halforda have a BOGOF deal on their Super Brilliance bulbs. I got some Extreme Brilliance - and they're fantastic!

Oh, and sorry to DP, but Halforda have a BOGOF deal on their Super Brilliance bulbs. I got some Extreme Brilliance - and they're fantastic!

They had that on when I bought my last set of H4 Philips Xtreme. It still worked out more expensive at Halfrauds. Not too sure who makes the Halfrauds bulbs, but ones my mate had needed a lot of adjustment on one side to get the setting right.

Chris

Chris GB, same when I bought mie X-treme a week ago.

One thing that most don't mention is the effect on more vulnerable road users - I've lost count of the number of times I've been blinded by badly-adjusted lights or wrongly-fitted HID bulbs when I've been on my bike at night - the lights reflect off any tiny scratch on my visor and taking one hand off the bars to shield my eyes is even more dangerous - zooming at 70 mph praying that the road is just to the left of the lights and there isn't a pothole or island in the way is an interesting experience.

So, please, think of bikers & don't fit HID bulbs without the proper lenses.

Ok, when bikers stop running main beam all the time, shining their headlights in my eyes or mirrors...

Retrofitting HIDS without HID lensese is wrong, plain wrong. HID & Halogen lights have different lens because the bulb emissions are different. You have to fit HID reflectors so as not to dazzle other road users and you may get other beam-distribution problems (the HID kit H4 on my bike is fantastic on dip but cr*p on main because of this problem).

So you've retro fitted HIDs onto your bike and that's OK, but not for car users. :confused:

I

I informed the officer that my vehicle had passed an MOT with this set-up and he said it shouldn't have as the glare was tremendous.

I had to remove the kit and take my car to an MOT testing station and then produce my documents. I will never re-fit one to a halogen designd headlamp again.

Well, if you retrofitted HIDs into reflector type headlamps, no surprise there.

HID retrofits work very well in the projector headlamp housings, such as on Mk1 Superb and at least some early Octavias.

Retrofitting HIDs in the reflector type headlights should be a crime punishable by impounding the car/motorbike on the spot. I once saw a car on autobahn putting out so much glare it was possible to see it from behind that car - it was going absolutely everywhere, not even high beam could possibly match it.

And this coming from someone who fitted them and has some knowledge of the topic of optics - see this thread:

http://briskoda.net/superb/adjusting-headlights/129725/

especially posts #13, #16 and #28.

The only thing that changed since then is that I no longer recommend Philips ballasts because recent ballasts seem to have problems. 50W+ power sets from http://www.xenonkungen.com/en/ fit my needs perfectly.

Incidentally, in the Superb headlight housing lens/reflector system is the same for HIDs as for H7s - compare side to side, so looks like aside from the Type Approval tests etc, the manufacturer shares my point of view that HID projectors are no different from halogen projectors .

Edited 11 November, 200916 yr by dieselV6

Surely, if both lamps were identical as you suggest, the manufacturers would just gain both type approvals on one lamp and save having two identical assemblies for different light sources?

Afterall, they will delete a self tapping screw or clip here and there in the interest of saving tenths of a penny per car, so why spend thousands of pounds developing two "identical" lamps just to put a different "E" number on the front?

My advice is go to a friendly car dealer and compare xenon vs. halogern headlamps for Superb side by side. I did before buying my Superb.

Or at least have a look underneath Mk1 Superb's halogen headlight - you will see ballast mounting points. The only differences halogen vs HID are: a hole punched to the inside where the ballast goes, and a different collar onto the reflector housing (D1S instead of H7) . So you need 2 type approvals because you put 2 different light elements - as I have just said the (fixed) bulb mounting collar is different and it determines where exactly the light source is sitting inside the lamp. But if you put in a correctly sized H7 HID retrofit, you will end up with the same beam.on the road as from factory HID.

There are 3 additional electrical differences on the outside of headlamp - uprated wiring harness, bigger fuses and a different headlamp monitoring unit (the "lights failure" thingy).

However, most recent reputable aftermarket kits such as the ones I posted earlier cope well with lower voltages, and virtually all current factory and aftermarket HIDs do not need anywhere near as high starting currents as they used to (which is where the thicker wiring, bigger fuses, and light monitor with lower voltage drop used to matter). Stock halogen wiring is good for 15A on the Superb, this is more than enough even for 70W aftermarket kits as I have tested

And of course there is the automatic levelling, which as I descrbed in earlier thread is actually worse than manual levelling if you happen to drive fully loaded car with a towbar carrier. I have factory HIDs on the Octavia and there after several attempts to calibrate the levelling I still had to retro-fit the thumbwheel for manual correction of the automatic levelling.

Incidentally, did you know that Bosch's auto-levelling commonly found on VW cars is only levelling when the car is completely stationary, and will move your headlights a lot if you happened to stop on an steep hill? It's a really bad setup. So on balance, I'd prefer HID retrofits in projectors with manual levelling already provided.

Note this is data for the Superb, Octavia might be different. But my point about HID retrofits working well in projectors still stands.

I find these to be the most effective bulbs for warning off passing ships:

For those not willing to carry out the 'lighthouse' conversion, I like Philips X-treme power bulbs. Been using them for 2 years, and very happy with them.

I'm with the mentality that if you need far brighter lights than everyone else, then you should probably get your eyes checked! Or eat more carrots! I'm not a fan of those ponsy HID lights. They annoy the hell out of me!

Likewise...... Philips X-treme H4 power headlight bulbs, using them for 18 months, and very happy with them together with Philip Blue vision W5W front side lights, they were a freeby with the bulbs (give a bright white light not blue).

NB: Lighthouse bulb?? how big are the moths??:D

Peter

Likewise...... Philips X-treme H4 power headlight bulbs, using them for 18 months, and very happy with them together with Philip Blue vision W5W front side lights, they were a freeby with the bulbs (give a bright white light not blue).

NB: Lighthouse bulb?? how big are the moths??:D

Peter

You never watch the Godzilla films?

... But my point about HID retrofits working well in projectors still stands.

Assuming the lenses and reflectors are the same of course. It is entirely possible that there are one or two cars where the conversion is good. However, most are not and a quick drive around chavsville any night of the week will prove this.

Chris

NB: Lighthouse bulb?? how big are the moths??:D

Peter

This big!!!

Mothra FTW! Makes Godzilla look like a right tool!

Ok, when bikers stop running main beam all the time, shining their headlights in my eyes or mirrors...

Thats a rather subjective opinion, Bikes headlights are generally higher than a car.

Thats why you think your being blinded by a high beam when we are close, where in actual fact we dont all ride around on high beam, if we did then you'd really know about it.

Im running Osram silverstars on my bike, and im looking to upgrade the bulbs in the octy,

I'll probably go with the silverstars again for the car as well,

from previous experience they produce a good beam and a bright white light, and I havnt had one go yet.

H4 Philips vision plus (+50%) £18 per pair including delivery from autobulbs direct, at the moment they are BOGOF so 2 packs for the price of 1 pack . ie 4 bulbs for £18 ! . Fitted in my Octi and am happy with the results. See link :- H4 Upgrade Car Headlight Bulbs Xenon