Snow chains

[The Plumber]

Thanks Worldlife for the info from Skoda,

have read both versions of the manual but I didn't find it that clear to understand as this post, so again many thanks.

included a photo of the positioning of the standard 225/50 R17 tyre to the front right MacPherson strut, which I hope is of help.

Regards,

TP

[Worldlife]

Thanks Worldlife for the info from Skoda,

have read both versions of the manual but I didn't find it that clear to understand as this post, so again many thanks.

included a photo of the positioning of the standard 225/50 R17 tyre to the front right MacPherson strut, which I hope is of help.

(Edit - photo as displayed in previous post deleted)

Regards,

Y4YETI will give his thanks also - one he can log on!!

With the email there were the following attachments - are they the documents you refer to?Manual Snow chains and tyres 1

]Manual Snow chains and tyres 2

The awful thing about this is that only a few days ago I had an email from Skoda Customer Service UK that failed to take into account this latest information and was still exploring the use of thinner profile tyres on the supplied wheels and for the front wheels only. This would involve customers in unecessary expense!!!!!!!

How do we see the traction change if any. In normal use I understand the power distribution is 90% front and the remainder to the rear.

So we put the snow chains on the rear that has the 10% power. Hmmm does this change us from a front wheel drive to a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Would this power distribution minimise the risk of spin on a downhill descent (incident report previously posted) ?

Edited 27 March, 2010 by Worldlife

[Llanigraham]

I think you will find that with the Haldex 4 unit fitted to the Yeti there is NO drive to the rear axle normally, until slip is sensed when it then gets progressively more, as required.

[Agerbundsen]

So we put the snow chains on the rear that has the 10% power. Hmmm does this change us from a front wheel drive to a rear wheel drive vehicle.

I would aSsume the Haldex would transfer the 90% to the rear axle if the front wheels did not have enough traction.

Fascinating subject, but I wonder how relevant t really is? The Yeti IS a softroader, so chains etc. are only a means of satifying some rules on some Alpine roads in winter - and to be able to get to your favorite skiing place at slow speed for the last short stretch. If you want to play off-road in deep snow, then a completely different set of tyres are needed, and if this is a serious passtime, the Yeti is probably not the right vehicle. Certainly not with the 17", wide tyres.

On-road with 10-15 cm of snow and winter tires, there is rally no problems. Crossing the southern Black forest in the beginning of February under these conditions was quite feasible.

Now I am hampered by being a flatlander, so maybe some of the Northern Cousins could add some of their winter experiences with the SM and their tyre selections. I suspect they would be narrow (the tyres) and probably studded as well as being selected for specific snow conditions, whereas my choice was heavily biased towards wet and cold rather than deep snow.

Edited 27 March, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[The Plumber]

The following are extracts from the Haldex web site,

"Haldex Gen IV connects to the vehicle's electrical system and to the data communication bus (i.e. the CAN-system), transmitting information on the driver's actions, the engine, the transmission, the brakes and other on board systems.

Haldex Gen IV uses this information entirely for its control without the need for additional sensors. The available signals are received by the coupling's processor and interpreted by the software. Continuous analysis of these data adjusts the characteristics of the coupling according to actual demand, without any active intervention by the driver."

"The function of the coupling is automatically adjusted to prevailing conditions. When starting in sand for example, the shafts are coupled together as firmly as possible to obtain the best traction. When close cornering, i.e. parking, the shafts are uncoupled to allow easy manoeuvring.

The controllability of the Haldex Gen IV also makes it possible to use differently worn tyres, to tow the vehicle with one axle raised, and to maintain function when using Run-flat-tyres or Mini-Spare. Haldex Gen IV can use any suitable signal available on CAN. Signals from the ABS and ESP systems and the engine control are vital for performance. For enhanced performance, signals from a steering wheel sensor, yaw sensor, lateral acceleration sensor can be used if available."

"When starting the vehicle the electrical pump in the Haldex Gen IV is started, swiftly providing the system with pressurized oil and thereby making the system ready for operation. The control valve sets the pressure to the piston which in turn compresses the disc package. The level of pressure set depends on the torque level needed which in turn depends on the driving situation. In traction/high slip conditions, a high pressure is delivered: in tight curves (i.e. parking), or at high speeds - a much lower pressure is provided.

The front and the rear axle of the car is connected via the wet multi-plate clutch which makes it possible to vary the torque distribution between the two axles. As the function of the Haldex Gen IV is independent of the differential speed between the front and the rear axle full lockingtorque, if needed, is available at any given time and speed."

So I read that to mean she's predominantly front wheel drive but will give a variable 4x4 functionality depending on the Haldex computers interpretation of what your doing with your Monster.

Regards,

TP

[Llanigraham]

Thanks TP, you have confirmed in detail what I said.

Stupid system here wouldn't let me into the Haldex info!!!

[Y4YETI]

Thanks Worldlife for holding the fort in my absence

Back again - no groans please.

I do think the fundamental change of locating snow chains on the rear wheels perhaps shows that the wheel sizes, tyre types and profiles for the Yeti were not fully considered by Skoda prior to the release of the vehicle.

Do the previous posts on this thread suggest otherwise and that Skoda did provide the best value option for winter use of the vehicle?

Although some have mocked snow in West Sussex I would point out we live on high ground opposite a river valley and we get snow drifts from the wind funnel effect.

Large concrete tiles were regularly lifted from our roof and the Marley installation standard needed to be upgraded with additional gable and course fixings etc.

For this reason we feel let down by the vehicle profile as supplied.

[Llanigraham]

Y4Yeti, (welcome back)

I find it very interesting that it is only someone who lives in the UK, where to be honest snow is not really that common, who is complaining about snow chains on the Yeti. I don't notice our Scandanavian members complaining. No, they just fit WINTER tyres and get on with it, because in nearly all situations they are perfectly adequate.

I would humbly suggest that if you are that concerned about the ability of the Yeti, and you, in coping with snow, that you speak to one of the 4x4 Instruction Companies and get them to show you how to drive in those conditions with a modern 4x4 car. I can personally say that you might be very surprised at what you learn. I am not being sarcastic or derogatory in saying that, so please do not take it that way. None of use know everything and we can all learn something, no matter how long we have been driving.

The Freelander is very similar in many characturists to the Yeti, and through my membership of 4x4 Response Wales, and previously from Land Rover, I have been trained to drive in these conditions. Mid Wales for the last 2 years has had severe snow falls, and I have been called out to transport District Nurses on several occasions. I have never been in a situation where I have needed chains, and that includes driving roads with 6" of hard compacted snow and ice. I only have All Terrain tyres, not even winter ones, and at no time have I felt at risk. If I had I would have stopped, as that is always better than taking a risk, and possibly not getting to any of the clients.

This posting is given in the friendliest terms so please do not take umbrage, but take it as a piece of sensible advice.

EDIT. I am trying to arrange a day out for 4x4 owners soon, and would be very pleased to give you some tips and ideas, if you would like to come.

Edited 27 March, 2010 by Llanigraham

[aerofurb]

Now if ever there was a thread that should be moved to another forum a long, long way from here....

Just joking Y4YETI, welcome back!

[Y4YETI]

This thread has been a wonderful learning curve for me!!

Am I correct in understanding that perhaps the wrong image is being projected for the capability of a 4WD Yeti in the profile supplied by Skoda?

Agree that driver skills are a key factor in what can be achieved in any vehicle but it would be interesting to compare the performance in snow of:-

a) a two wheel drive Yeti E fitted with high quality All Season M&S grade tyres of same profiles to the tyres/wheel supplied by Skoda

a 4WD Yeti Elegance fitted with the Good Year Excellence high speed tyres as supplied by Skoda

c) a Skoda Superb Elegance automatic fitted with Winter tyres

Which car will be the winner? Do you have any other contenders?

To give the Superb a chance I have fitted Winter tyres but I do not think these are a real option for most low mileage users in the UK.

I underline that many people in changing their vehicles will expect to get the best possible adhesion in snow and ice rather than having performance tyres to achieve speeds in the UK that would cause an immediate driving ban but are in any case beyond the capability of the standard specification vehicles

[Lady Penelope]

This thread has been a wonderful learning curve for me!!

Lady Penelopes reply: :wonder:

Am I correct in understanding that perhaps the wrong image is being projected for the capability of a 4WD Yeti in the profile supplied by Skoda?

Lady Penelopes reply:

This is my last word in this thread!!!

Edited 29 March, 2010 by Lady Penelope

[Llanigraham]

This thread has been a wonderful learning curve for me!!

I have always said that we are always learning something. My father used to say that only a fool says he knows everything.

Am I correct in understanding that perhaps the wrong image is being projected for the capability of a 4WD Yeti in the profile supplied by Skoda?

No, not at all. To me they are showing an image a car with some off road capablity. Not extreme, but simple forest type tracks, and to be honest that is all that probably 99% of owners will ever do. I have not seen one advert from Skoda that shows anything different. What I have seen are various video reviews, all I think from the Press, that show a far greater capabality than Skoda show, and certainly from some of the Russia videos an excellent capability in deep snow, often on what appear to be standard tyres, and often the widest fitting. (and WITHOUT chains!!)

Agree that driver skills are a key factor in what can be achieved in any vehicle but it would be interesting to compare the performance in snow of:-

a) a two wheel drive Yeti E fitted with high quality All Season M&S grade tyres of same profiles to the tyres/wheel supplied by Skoda

a 4WD Yeti Elegance fitted with the Good Year Excellence high speed tyres as supplied by Skoda

c) a Skoda Superb Elegance automatic fitted with Winter tyres

Which car will be the winner? Do you have any other contenders?

Before I answer that can we clear up some confusion over the naming of tyres. M&S tyres went out with the demise of cross ply tyres, and no no-one uses that description now. Basically there are:

road tyres

high performance tyres (HP)

All Terrain tyres (AT's)

Mud tyres (MT's)

and then:

Winter or Snow tyres. These can have any of the above descriptions as well. Yes, you can even buy a specific winter tyre for a Ferrari if you've got enough money!! In most of Europe a winter road tyre is desiganted by having a snow flake moulded into the tyre details, and is tested for that purpose by the likes of ADAC in Germany. They sometimes have a slightly wider tread gap between the blocks, and seem to be slightly deeper, but the main difference is what they are made off, and this makes them able to cope with the cold temperatures better. If used in hot weather they seem to wear out quicker, which is why most people have 2 sets of wheels and tyres, so they can be easily swopped when the weather improves. They really don't look that different to normal road tyres. In Scandanavia some can be fitted with studs as well, but these normally have a much more aggressive tread pattern, like an MT tyre.

So back to your question; which would win? Personally I would say the 4x4 Yeti, simply because of the clever Haldex system that would allow different wheels to grip as required. However it is one of those impondrable questions where really there are too many variables.

To give the Superb a chance I have fitted Winter tyres but I do not think these are a real option for most low mileage users in the UK.

I underline that many people in changing their vehicles will expect to get the best possible adhesion in snow and ice rather than having performance tyres to achieve speeds in the UK that would cause an immediate driving ban but are in any case beyond the capability of the standard specification vehicles

I think for your Superb you have made the correct choice.

Personally I think that there should be a lot more "education" given to drivers about driving in poor conditions. I saw far too amny people think that the way to cope with the snow and ice was to floor the throttle and spin the wheels. I gave up telling them to change into 2nd and tickle the throttle. Funny how a lot seemed to be in a certain German car !! My daughter drives a Golf Driver, which is basically a GTi without the power, but with the wider wheels and lowered suspension, and she said she had great fun in the snow in Worcester embarrasing them, as she plodded up the hills. She got to work every day into Bromsgrove whereas lots of others didn't. She obviously listened to her dad once!!

Edited 29 March, 2010 by Llanigraham

[Y4YETI]

Thanks Graham

This is all very confusing because, despite your comments otherwise, some manufacturers and distributors are using the M & S category for their All Season Tyres.

For example GoodYear:-

"Vector 4 Seasons contributes snowflakes and M + S marking

Because of the tyres also the major marks "M + S" and snowflake which meets the requirements of winter tyres situational duty in Germany. The Vector 4 Seasons is in 23 dimensions of 155/70 R 13 to the SUV-size 255/55 R 18 available, including two Runflat tyres. "

For low mileage vehicle users surely a tyre such as this would give best all round service and would also meet legal requirements for Europe

See http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=24798647.110.24626&typ=R-160245&ranzahl=4&Breite=225&Quer=50&Felge=17&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=110&sowigan=GAN

[Llanigraham]

Is that Goodyears description or "mytyres", I'm not sure?

If you note they describe those as "All Season" tyres, so they therefore should be suitable for all year round use, and if it has the correct markings, so legal in the winter.

[Agerbundsen]

Thanks Graham

This is all very confusing because, despite your comments otherwise, some manufacturers and distributors are using the M & S category for their All Season Tyres.

For example GoodYear:-

"Vector 4 Seasons contributes snowflakes and M + S marking

Because of the tyres also the major marks "M + S" and snowflake which meets the requirements of winter tyres situational duty in Germany. The Vector 4 Seasons is in 23 dimensions of 155/70 R 13 to the SUV-size 255/55 R 18 available, including two Runflat tyres. "

For low mileage vehicle users surely a tyre such as this would give best all round service and would also meet legal requirements for Europe

See http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=24798647.110.24626&typ=R-160245&ranzahl=4&Breite=225&Quer=50&Felge=17&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=110&sowigan=GAN

Google translate from the ADAC tests in 2008:

tested tire sizes: 175/65R14 T

Mark: recommended

Remarks:

Top rating on ice Slight weakness in the wet (leading to the devaluation) weaknesses (on dry pavement summer use!) Weaknesses in the snow (leading to the devaluation) High fuel consumption

ADAC 09/2008 (U.S.)

Mark:

tested tire sizes: 195/65R15 T

Mark: recommended

Remarks:

Best mark in the wear weaknesses on wet roads and in the snow (leading to the devaluation)

As I read that, an OK tyre if you are willing to accept less than top performance on dry and wet roads in summmer and in snow in winter. They are probably better than winter tyres in the summer and better than summer tyres in winter..

It just goes to show that you cannot have your cake AND eat it.

Edited 29 March, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[The Plumber]

Is that Goodyears description or "mytyres", I'm not sure?

If you note they describe those as "All Season" tyres, so they therefore should be suitable for all year round use, and if it has the correct markings, so legal in the winter.

Hi,

the Nokians I run in the winter have both the snowflake and the M&S symbol. The info I have read from the manufacturer suggests that the M&S indicates a more open tread pattern but there is no performance standard associated with the M&S marking.

My link

Regards,

TP

[Llanigraham]

Strange isn't? In the 4x4 world where the M&S tyres were once the ones to have, now no-one uses the title. BF Goodrich, who are thought to be the best general off-road tyre maker, use the titles I said earlier;

AT - All Terrain

MT - Mud Terrain

That is a good link about how and why.

[Onesque]

I had a little chuckle to myself today.

I was walking around town when my attention was brought to what I can only describe as a '*****-*****-*****' sort of noise, definitely metal chains on Tarmac/pavement sort of noise.

I looked around and there in front of me was a guy with what I can only describe as 'snow chains' on his shoes. I immediately thought of this thread and the fun that was had discussing the subject. Not that I wish to poor more oil on the fire

I was that intrigued that I googled "Snow chains for shoes" when i got home and found these.

http://www.yaktrax.co.uk/

[Y4YETI]

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year - guess you guys have to chase up the deserters when you are so few on the ground.

Are Skoda still fitting crap high speed tyres instead of decent M & S (yes the designation still seems to be used but I've seen more S&M on the internet)?

Delighted with the automatic Freelander II replacing the Yeti. It came with Pirelli M&S and I have yet to experience a slip either in climb or descent. The descent control (has to be switched on manually in Freelander but not Range Rover snow and ice setting) is brilliant.

Plenty of opportunity to extend experience from one day training course (discounted last minute offer) on Range Rover at Landrover Ashford followed by introductory course on Freelander offered free to both wife and self.

Better stick to all round wellies rather than Yaktraks. I believe if you wear Yaktraks on a tiled surface in a shopping centre you are likely to go a over h.

Was I right in thinking that a Government representative in suggesting road damage from winter tyres was confusing studded tyres with winter or M&S tyres?

Don't mind using a few extra drops of diesel on the automatic Freelander to avoid all the stick waggling needed to keep a manual Yeti performing well in hilly areas

Thanks again for all the fun on this forum......................................

[BossFox]

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year - guess you guys have to chase up the deserters when you are so few on the ground.

Are Skoda still fitting crap high speed tyres instead of decent M & S (yes the designation still seems to be used but I've seen more S&M on the internet)?

Delighted with the automatic Freelander II replacing the Yeti. It came with Pirelli M&S and I have yet to experience a slip either in climb or descent. The descent control (has to be switched on manually in Freelander but not Range Rover snow and ice setting) is brilliant.

Plenty of opportunity to extend experience from one day training course (discounted last minute offer) on Range Rover at Landrover Ashford followed by introductory course on Freelander offered free to both wife and self.

Better stick to all round wellies rather than Yaktraks. I believe if you wear Yaktraks on a tiled surface in a shopping centre you are likely to go a over h.

Was I right in thinking that a Government representative in suggesting road damage from winter tyres was confusing studded tyres with winter or M&S tyres?

Don't mind using a few extra drops of diesel on the automatic Freelander to avoid all the stick waggling needed to keep a manual Yeti performing well in hilly areas

Thanks again for all the fun on this forum......................................

I do like my Landrovers too, but have to admit your posts look like a poor attempt to make the Yeti look bad and complain about it.

If you need a Land Rover... then buy one. It's not a competitor for the Skoda Yeti.

If you needed the former and bought the latter then you clearly bought the wrong vehicle. That is not the fault of the vehicle.

We have a Range Rover, a Defender and a 2wd Yeti. On Vector 4 season goodyear tyres you'd be surprised how good the Yeti is. But it takes a bit of skill, not a twiddly knob for a snow and ice setting so it's done for you.

[Freshacre]

Thanks again for all the fun on this forum......................................

And hi there again, O Deserter!!!

Vic

Glad you are pleased with your eventual migration!!

If you have a bit of spare time, cast your peepers over the numerous pages and posts in this forum dealing with tyres and weather and Yeti performance, and you will find a very high level of real satisfaction. Much of it isto do with the ability to get about despite this damn weather!

Anyhow - one definite fact, and a (dubious) claim to fame for you!! The thread you started all those months ago has grown into one of THE longest in the forum. Not only that, you've created one of the longest running-jokes that we all enjoy.

"don't mention the war!" has, on this forum, become "don't mention Sn*w CH**ns!!!".

Hope all else is good for you and that the wedding went well, Vic.

[EdmundBlackadder]

Was I right in thinking that a Government representative in suggesting road damage from winter tyres was confusing studded tyres with winter or M&S tyres?

I believe it was the Transport Secretary. Oh woe. What chance do we have.

My Yeti has been running on crap summer shoes through snow, slush and ice in the North East for around a month now. Never let me down yet. I do think they should offer All Season Tyres as an option when ordering though. That seems reasonable enough to me.

[Allams Skoda]

Oh good. This thread is back again.

[ejstubbs]

I was walking around town when my attention was brought to what I can only describe as a '*****-*****-*****' sort of noise, definitely metal chains on Tarmac/pavement sort of noise.

I looked around and there in front of me was a guy with what I can only describe as 'snow chains' on his shoes.

I was that intrigued that I googled "Snow chains for shoes" when i got home and found these: http://www.yaktrax.co.uk/

Our postie uses those, or something similar - and very glad of that we are, too. I use these: http://petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/packs-and-accessories/accessories/spiky-plus. At least some of us up here in the frozen North of the UK are reasonably serious about being prepared for winter weather!

Back on the subject of snow chains for Yetis, I now have a set of chains for mine. However, they are sized to fit my winter tyres and I am still waiting for the fourth one of those to be delivered...

UPDATE: The missing tyre was delivered this morning, hurrah! Now wondering whether I can go home early to change four wheels...in the snow...in the dark...hmm...I'm tending towards "yes".

Edited 21 December, 2010 by ejstubbs

[900000]

Did anyone see this classic photo in a thread from yesterday?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/184497-spot-the-error/

Spot the error:

Bless BMW drivers... Awh.