I shall talk you through it all next week.

Make sure they balance you mentally too

NO! That's like not telling me what's wrong with the car...i.e. without explaining to me what caused the problem' date=' how it was fixed, and how to prevent it happening again.

I have to learn if I'm to stand any chance of defeating these obstacles.Don't just want a pat on my head and to be told... there there C.J., it's better now, don't worry about it.

Going off in a grump now to have my wheels RE balanced. [/quote']

just read the book i've sent to you ....

BEFORE starting on that whiskey again

mrs CJ could be right...grumpy old alco

just read the book i've sent to you ....

BEFORE starting on that whiskey again

mrs CJ could be right...grumpy old alco

Says the grumpy old gin soaked.....

Says the grumpy old gin soaked.....

what a terrible accusation......a scrutineer....grumpy......gin soaked.......

especially from the one with a 2500 bpm heartbeat and bleeding from some oriface or other

A hardware firewall would almost be as easy as a software firewall to break, once you're behind it, especially if it's a

How do you access your hardware firewall? From your PC. If you can do something on your PC, a virus can do the same thing.

Belkin firewalls won't use high encryption for their own security (that's why they're sub

Not even mine this time! Bloody Post Office!

Just been to tax the AX for today's trip...sorry sir...computers have all gone down throughout the country, can't process road tax or credit card payments for anything. :eek:

Are the fuzz really going to believe me if I get stopped? I think not!

I will leave things until the last minute. :(

How do you access your hardware firewall? From your PC. If you can do something on your PC, a virus can do the same thing.

Belkin firewalls won't use high encryption for their own security (that's why they're sub

...er, because you don't have antivirus, so dodgy software can get on your PC via, oooh, let's say, an email.

Also, if a

...er' date=' because you don't have antivirus, so dodgy software can get on your PC via, oooh, let's say, an email.

[/quote']

So you'd open an e-mail attachment from someone you don't know? That was an executable?

Also, if a

So you'd open an e-mail attachment from someone you don't know? That was an executable?

Viruses don't necessarily just come from people you don't know.

The answer is "because people will pay that much".

I still maintain a firewall is more important than anti-virus software - it will stop other people messing with your computer' date=' so all you've got to do is worry about what you do. So if you don't put a virus on the machine, you'll have a secure machine that will give you years of service.

Rob.[/quote']

Er, yes. Because "people will pay that much". I'm sure the likes of BT, Microsoft, most ISPs, financial firms and large companies would be seen dead using a

Viruses don't necessarily just come from people you don't know.

True, but most of them do.

Er, yes. Because "people will pay that much". I'm sure the likes of BT, Microsoft, most ISPs, financial firms and large companies would be seen dead using a

Right. Can't really be ar$3d anymore, but -

1. Most viruses DO come from people you know.

2. At that price, they ARE right. I pity any company worth it's salt who has a network security administrator who recommends nipping out to PC World for the cheapest firewall available.

3. No. If setup correctly, antivirus will prevent a virus from infecting your system. If you've already got one (for some reason), then it will also clean it. There is NO WAY that a firewall will stop a virus from infecting your system. Using your phrase, "...prevention is better than cure...", antivirus prevents a virus from infecting your system and also gets rid of it. A firewall won't prevent it from happening, and won't get rid of it, either. What may happen is that a firewall may prevent someone from getting access to your system once it's infected (because you didn't get the antivirus software), but only if you don't get a virus which attacks your firewall.

4. See point 2. Most antivirus software will tell you that you've got spyware and kill it. A firewall won't. What about a virus which kills your system files? Or deletes your personal files? What about viruses which send themselves via email to people you know? A firewall won't stop ANY of that.

Your system may be unusably slow, have no space whatsoever, no data, be sending unsolicted mail to lots of people, but as long as you've got a firewall on it, no-one can get access to it. Great.

The basis of your argument is to prevent people from using spyware to gain control of your PC. Indeed, a firewall may stop this (for the moment), but the spyware will always be on your PC until you install antivirus to get rid of it. Also, there're hundreds of other different types of viruses that can cause irreparable harm to your PC without the need for anyone to come through your firewall inbound.

Just how mature are you?

Rob.

I hate to say it ( ) but i'm with Rob.........

Having just dealt with a series of virii infections and assorted spyware issues at work (300+ users at this location alone, my responsibility, 25K + elsewhere)

just like to point out a few things:

ZoneAlarm - good as a free/cheap effective personal firewall. However, intrusion detection is not *that* good - I've seen a number of installs of ZoneAlarm I've seen go "bum-over-brain" and a virus subsequently being found are many........of course, some protection is better than none..........

Anti-Virus - up until around McAfee Viruscan 8 (enterprise edition, btw) I have not come across any AV software that included features such as Buffer Overrun protection (quite a common hack/security hole exploit) and such.

Also, anti-virus catches the infection, it doesn't stop it.

A decent firewall in hardware will always be better than a software offering, though I personally advocate the "belt & braces" approach.

But, as Rob pointed out - CJ's problem stemmed from Spyware, which, by it's very definition is designed to get round security of mere mortals.......

How else do I explain the five or six instances of it i clean out using Spybot each week from a variety of PC's - all running Zone Alarm, all accessing from behind hardware firewalls - one circa

Right. Can't really be ar$3d anymore' date=' but -

1. Most viruses DO come from people you know.

[/quote']

Care to quantify?

67.3% of statisitics are made up on the spot........

All i'm pointing out here is our perception of virus transmission depends on where we encounter it.

And, if it really was true that "most" came from known sources, then surely, they wouldn't be the problem they are, as we'd all exisit in a closed system.

But, as Rob pointed out - CJ's problem stemmed from Spyware, which, by it's very definition is designed to get round security of mere mortals.......

How else do I explain the five or six instances of it i clean out using Spybot each week from a variety of PC's - all running Zone Alarm, all accessing from behind hardware firewalls - one circa

:rubchin:

You're getting SpyWare even through these firewalls? That's strange...my wireless router/gateway seems to stop them...well' date=' I haven't had any SpyWare on my machines, but I have been making an effort to avoid software like Kazaa and that.

Also, my anti-virus has never detected a virus, so am I just lucky or something?

Rob.[/quote']

Kazaa is the spawn of the dark one. I avoid too. maybe "spyware" is too strong a term. Just the usual sort of tracking cookies from the assorted travels that my machine gets (two/three users, only 1 wise).

As for not detecting virus, you;ve just not got that many *interesting" friends, like the nephew of General Sani abachi who needed me to assist him with some online banking the other day.....:rubchin:

Care to quantify?

67.3% of statisitics are made up on the spot........

All i'm pointing out here is our perception of virus transmission depends on where we encounter it.

And' date=' if it really was true that "most" came from known sources, then surely, they wouldn't be the problem they are, as we'd all exisit in a closed system.[/quote']

Eh? How would knowing where your virus came from mean that you were on a closed system?

OK. Let's put it this way. You're handed a disk with an Excel spreadsheet on it. It's got some accounts information in it. It's also got a macro virus. Now, why would you be opening this file? Because it's been given to you by someone you know.

How about this? You receive an email from your best friend. It's a quiz in, spreadsheet format (you know the ones). You fill it in, waste some work time, pass it onto someone else. It also has a macro virus in it. You infect your PC, and then the person's who you sent it onto.

Both cases, you knew the person who sent it onto you. Now, try this one. You get sent an email from someone you don't know. You delete it. No macro viruses were loaded, or transferred.

Obviously, you get some people who'll open up emails from people they've never heard of before (we've got people like that here), but they're a tiny minority, and the number of times they receive emails like this pale into insignificance to the other emails they may be receiving from people they know.

In conclusion, the chances are, if you've got a virus, then you've got it from someone you know.

Of course, if you've got a decent antivirus system, you won't have any worries, because it'll let you know and kill it. If you've got a firewall, you're screwed.

Of course, if you've got a decent antivirus system, you won't have any worries, because it'll let you know and kill it. If you've got a firewall, you're screwed.

But by that point your machine will have so much spyware and the like on it it won't be working anyway...and if only you'd been behind a firewall!

Rob.

Anti-Virus - up until around McAfee Viruscan 8 (enterprise edition' date=' btw) I have not come across any AV software that included features such as Buffer Overrun protection (quite a common hack/security hole exploit) and such.

Also, anti-virus catches the infection, it doesn't stop it.[/quote']

My antivirus (Norton) stops the infection by quarantineing the file that's infected, thereby preventing access to it and stopping it from running. Once it's done this, it lets you know and gives you the option of killing it. You'll also get this sort of feature in the decent antivirus products (Sophos, for example)...but if you're using McAfee, then you're onto a loser. It's $h1te.

If your PCs patched up correctly, then you won't suffer from buffer overrun attacks. Neither antivirus or firewall will stop this.

A decent firewall in hardware will always be better than a software offering, though I personally advocate the "belt & braces" approach.

But, as Rob pointed out - CJ's problem stemmed from Spyware, which, by it's very definition is designed to get round security of mere mortals.......

How else do I explain the five or six instances of it i clean out using Spybot each week from a variety of PC's - all running Zone Alarm, all accessing from behind hardware firewalls - one circa

Just how mature are you?

Rob.

Seemingly, about as mature as you.

Seemingly, about as mature as you.

:confused:

I've been impartial and willing to discuss this from my viewpoint.

Comments like "You're wrong. I'm right. End of story", and using " " in discussions is not a very mature way to go about things...

Rob.

My antivirus (Norton) stops the infection by quarantineing the file that's infected' date=' thereby preventing access to it and stopping it from running. Once it's done this, it lets you know and gives you the option of killing it. You'll also get this sort of feature in the decent antivirus products (Sophos, for example)...but if you're using McAfee, then you're onto a loser. It's $h1te.

If your PCs patched up correctly, then you won't suffer from buffer overrun attacks. Neither antivirus or firewall will stop this.

.[/quote']

Disagree.

If patching was the definitive answer, why develop and implement such a feature.......oh, that's right, because it take MS a few weeks/months to recognise and develop patch.........

The notion that AV stops the infection - well, the mere fact it's been able to quarantine it clearly shows it hasn't. Containment is very different from prevention. See Iraq/Saddam as an object lesson.........

Also, your view that McAfee is a pile of doggie doo-doo.........on what basis do you make this judgement?

With a massively technical installed base here, and being former Norton AV Clients, with Norton coming with evey single PC we buy, we unload it ASAP, as it creates no end of hardware slow-down and conflicts with local and network hardware. If anything, unless we're talking home-user material/ very limited funds, Norton is the odious smear of faeces on the sole of my shoe...

Again, this is purely my own professional experience. If Norton works for you, great. But don't dismiss others choices and opinions as heavily and as quickly as "McAfee is a pile of $h1te".........

Hi....C.J. here!!! Remember me...and I there was I thinking that this was going to be a thread about computers in my language!

You've all totally lost me, so I'm going to read some books on the subject instead.