I know there has been a lot written about this subject, but I can't really find what the solution is.

I have warn my Dunlop SportMax Gts out in 10,000 miles of m'way driving on the front. They were severely sawtoothed on the inside, and down to the wear indicators at the middle.

I've just put replaced them with Michelin PS3, and switched them to the rear (costco's policy). The tyres which were on the rear (now on the front) are also sawtoothed.

The car now rumbles at 40mph, due to the high points on the sawtoothed tyres at the front.

I took the car back to the dealer, who kept referring to a letter about it which skoda issued, which puts the issue down to:

1) too much weight in the rear of the vehicle

2) incorrect tyre pressures

3) a characteristic of low profile tyres in general

Having spent £280 on PS3's I don't want them to go the same way, I asked the dealer to check wheel alignment, and have it booked in in 10 days time.

Has anyone really got the definitive answer

is it a wheel alignment issue, a suspension issue, or a Dunlop SportMax issue?

Thanks in advance

I had Dunlop Sport Maxx on mine (not the GT though) and I got sawtoothing on the rears. Took it to the dealer and they checked the rear alignment, which they adjusted as they said it was incorrect.

I have now put the Dunlops on the front, and have put PS3s on the rear.

However when I looked at one of the fronts that kept (I punctured the other on a pothole after 5,500 miles), this also exhibited sawtoothing, so I am beginning to wonder if it is a characteristic of the Dunlops.

I have done 1000 miles with the PS3s on the rear with no sign of sawtoothing, but I guess only time will tell. I am guessing that I will be stuck with the Dunlops on the front for another 4,000 miles at least unless I try really hard :yes:

It is a characteristic of poor suspention design, not tires. I have sawtooth on GY Eagle F1 Asym, on matador winter tires too. Wheel aligment didn't help.

Never saw the problem on my '07 vRS which had the updated alignment settings (which I understand are the same on the FL vRS).

Had Continentals and Pirellis on that car.

Nothing to do with 'poor suspension' or any such cobblers

If you run your tyres at the correct pressure ( as it seems a lot of people on here dont as they think they know better, not a dig at OP but from what i've read on other threads ) and you keep the tracking/alignment within tolerance, and have it checked regularly then you wont get these problems, providing the place who does the alignment knows their stuff

Trouble is you only have to bang the kerb parking to knock it out of line :-(

Had the same problem on my '05 2.0 tdi - with Dunlop SP9000's - only the near side rear though. The original SP01A's wore heavily on the inside tread but never sawtoothed. 99% of my milage is unladen commuting so it can't be down to excess weight. It seems to be an ongoing "discussion" between car & tyre manufacturers - each blaming the other.

From what I found out it is due to a combination of tyre choice (directional seem to be more prone than others as does the NSR) & suspension geometry (Other such as the Ford Focus appear to suffer the same fate).

I am now running Vredstein Cento's (XL) at the revised geometry settings and have not had any problems yet (though early days as its only been a few months). Mind, these tyres are very smooth and comfortable even at the higher settings that Vred. recommend (higher than Skoda), and would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

If you are having the geometry done, make sure its only by someone who has "Hunter" kit - far superior than the thumb & squint method most places use (for me it was third time lucky finding the right place!)

Thanks for all your comments guys.

I must admit to not having checked the tyre pressures when the car was delivered. Maybe Skoda supplied the car with over / under inflated tyres??

The tyre pressure warning light did come on 20 miles after I had new tyres put on ... this may be a clue ... maybe my new tyres are now at the correct pressure, and because this was different to the previous incorrect pressure (as supplied by Skoda), cause the warning light??

I know it is slack to not regularly check tyre pressures, but I am willing to own up to it, if it helps diagnose the problem!

I think you should contact Goodyear-Dunlop. I have seen lots of examples of this but everyone goes to their Skoda dealer and not the tyre manufacturer.

My 06 Octy vRS never suffered from this but then again never had Dunlops on it.

I've just been told the funny noise from my car is down to saw-toothing tyres. My car is Jan 10 FL VRS, the alignment is ok according to the dealers and to be honest i'm expecting to have to fit a set of new tyres in the next few months as the wear on the edges of the front tyres is terrible. Not best please seen as the car will do less than 8000 miles this year (predicted). I will be contacting Skoda UK and the tyre manufacturer (Dunlop) as I think the problem is one that should not exist these days. Poor design should not be tolerated these days due to the numerous design tools available to help.

I have a write up from my dealer on the subject which i'll post when i get 5.

I've just been told the funny noise from my car is down to saw-toothing tyres. My car is Jan 10 FL VRS, the alignment is ok according to the dealers and to be honest i'm expecting to have to fit a set of new tyres in the next few months as the wear on the edges of the front tyres is terrible. Not best please seen as the car will do less than 8000 miles this year (predicted). I will be contacting Skoda UK and the tyre manufacturer (Dunlop) as I think the problem is one that should not exist these days. Poor design should not be tolerated these days due to the numerous design tools available to help.

I have a write up from my dealer on the subject which i'll post when i get 5.

What exactly do you 'think' is poorly designed out of interest?

What exactly do you 'think' is poorly designed out of interest?

Big clue in the poster's use of the word "Dunlop" IMO! Their construction seems to lead to a lot of stress cracking in normal use, and they wear fast without actually being very grippy.

[meanwhile, back at the OP's point]

IME saw-toothing and feathering are caused by 2 things:-

Saw-toothing on rear tyres is caused by repeated heavy braking which wears the trailing edges of the tread blocks, and the lack of a corresponding acceleration scrub to buff the front edges.

Feathering is caused by high g cornering and/or hard acceleration and wears the training edges of the blocks on the drive axle (or front on a car with basically fixed torque split, and open or LS diff in the transfer box).

The reason saw-toothing is more of an issue is that the wear pattern sets up a resonance when cruising.

Both effects can occur even with correct geomentry and the right tyre pressures for car and brand of tyre.

Big clue in the poster's use of the word "Dunlop" IMO!

Ah, you mean where he used it in the same sentence as the word Skoda........ I see, even though other posters question the geometry and some the tyres, you use extra sensory perception to clarify what the post was about. Thanks ( insert you own sarcastic wink seeing as you're so good at it ).

Havign driven 20k plus for 15 years on the road and many many track days in road cars, i've never come across this 'saw toothing' with correct geometry and inflation using recommended or indeed aftermarket tyres. This is my experience

Big clue in the poster's use of the word "Dunlop" IMO! Their construction seems to lead to a lot of stress cracking in normal use, and they wear fast without actually being very grippy.

[meanwhile, back at the OP's point]

IME saw-toothing and feathering are caused by 2 things:-

Saw-toothing on rear tyres is caused by repeated heavy braking which wears the trailing edges of the tread blocks, and the lack of a corresponding acceleration scrub to buff the front edges.

Feathering is caused by high g cornering and/or hard acceleration and wears the training edges of the blocks on the drive axle (or front on a car with basically fixed torque split, and open or LS diff in the transfer box).

The reason saw-toothing is more of an issue is that the wear pattern sets up a resonance when cruising.

Both effects can occur even with correct geomentry and the right tyre pressures for car and brand of tyre.

And FYI, Saw toothing is cause by incorrect toe-in/out settings, which 'could' be linked to acceleration/braking if the toe angle isnt static through compression

My last comment on this thread is that i'd ditch directional tyres ( which are more suceptible to 'saw-toothing' ) and use some manufacturer recommended asymetrics such as Bridgestone Potenza RE050a

Sorry for the rather idiotic question guys but....Sawtoothing?? :S

My last comment on this thread is that i'd ditch directional tyres ( which are more suceptible to 'saw-toothing' ) and use some manufacturer recommended asymetrics such as Bridgestone Potenza RE050a

If this is the case, why are Skoda fitting directional tyres?

As I said before, I have only had this problem on this car (FL vRS) with the Dunlops. Waiting to see if the PS3s exhibit the problem (asymmetric).

My driving style hasn't changed between the two vRSs that I have had, and I always adhere to the manufacturer's recommended tyre presssures.

Sorry for the rather idiotic question guys but....Sawtoothing?? :S

The tyres wear such that the height of the tread blocks is different front to back. This leads to a stepped effect (sawtooth) on the tread.

If this is the case, why are Skoda fitting directional tyres?

Because they're idiots lol. My local Skoda dealer instantly recommended the Aysmetrics when I asked what to use ( savilles skoda ). Good luck with yours

I have noticed that there are many many variations of each type of tyre, ie oem manufacturer spec, directional, asymetric etc, I wonder if some people ( not yourself as they are OEM ) know exactyl what they are buying when they order from sites like black circles or mytyre etc as my RE050 bridgestones come in both directional, asymetric, different speed ratings and in some oem specs!

I'm lucky in that i have what i consider to be an expert alignment place with very knowledgeable technicians to take my cars to who know a lot about geometry and tyres

Well Matt, since you're such an expert on the subject, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why cars (variety of makes and models, fwd, rwd and full-time 4wd) with correct geometry and pressures, and non-specialised (neither or asymmetric nor unidirectional) tyres get feathering or saw-toothing, and my Octavia running directionals 2PSI over Skoda's recommendation, doesn't!

And as for the comment about Dunlops, That was made in a direct reply to a comment you'd made as a direct reply to a comment where that poster had specifically said the car was on Dunlops. I'm sorry if this was too complicated for you.

Well Matt, since you're such an expert on the subject, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why cars (variety of makes and models, fwd, rwd and full-time 4wd) with correct geometry and pressures, and non-specialised (neither or asymmetric nor unidirectional) tyres get feathering or saw-toothing, and my Octavia running directionals 2PSI over Skoda's recommendation, doesn't!

And as for the comment about Dunlops, That was made in a direct reply to a comment you'd made as a direct reply to a comment where that poster had specifically said the car was on Dunlops. I'm sorry if this was too complicated for you.

As I read it, the poster said he would be contacting both Skoda and Dunlop to get to the route of the problem, meaning it could be a tyre/application/geometry issue

I'm sorry if that is too hard for you to understand

As for the Sawtoothing, I know many cars have toe that changes from the static settings when under load, so high loads coupled with hard acceleration or retardation ( which i'm sure you know plenty about ) can cause this 'sawtooth', also big blocked tyres and those with wide lateral groves can suffer. BUT, most manufacturers handbooks will recommend some switching of tyres etc to combat this if it is inherent in OEM spec.

I have never personally experienced it as I said, unless thats also too difficult to read?

Two of the Dunlops on my new vRS sawtoothed badly, and this was exacerbated by them also developing flatspots, which caused an unbearable rhythmic drumming at certain speeds. I complained bitterly to the dealership and to their credit they replaced the two offending tyres with Continentals, free of charge. Not a bad result since the car had done 12k by then and they were half worn. Strangely the remaining 2 Dunlops have been OK, even after swapping them to the back where the original problem started.

Bob.

I think you should contact Goodyear-Dunlop. I have seen lots of examples of this but everyone goes to their Skoda dealer and not the tyre manufacturer.

I had the sawtoothing problem on my previous car, a mk 5 Golf GTI (essentially the same chassis/suspension as the octavia) that was on goodyear assymetrics.

Strangely I only had this late in the life of the vehicle, depite having run conti's, then dunlops, then several sets of goodyears - it only seemed to happen with the last two sets of tyres as i approached 100k miles. The tyre pressure used and style of driving were consistent over those miles so I would guess that it is more likely to be caused by a geometry issue? ie the alignment at the rear had slipped or been knocked out of tolerance over time?

In response to hedge above, i DID send a sawtoothed tyre back to goodyear customer services. They wrote me a very nice letter to basically say there was nothing wrong with the tyre, and the unusual wear was a characteristic of the vehicle.

I've my my vrs for 4 months now, with my facory fit conti's showing no signs of any unusual wear at 10k miles..

HTH.

UPDATE: I took the car back to the dealer today. He has just phoned to say the alignment settings were within tolerance, but they have hade some adjustments anyway.

He has a copy of the Skoda letter outlining their stance on the issue, I will be picking that up tonight.

I will be keeping the reciept for my michelin PS3's, and complianing direct to Skoda if they too start sawtoothing.

Also guys, remember, geometry may be right when static on the ramps but if your bushes are worn then you may get enough 'deflection' to cause this phenomenon

A simple response.

Sawtoothing wear pattern is a characteristic of rear tyres on front wheel drive cars (or front tyres on rear wheel drive) due to the forces exerted on the tyre; that is braking only. This will affect a car even with correct suspension geometry, tyre pressures etc. Certainly the tread pattern of the tyre will also be relevant with some designs better/worse than others.

A simple controlling measure, to minimise wear and effect, is to switch tyres left to right periodically e.g. every 5,000 miles (I did this yesterday on my Ultrac Sassantas that were showing slight signs of sawtoothing). Clearly this can't be done with directional tyres (only uni-directional or asymmetrical).