Hi ya

Any thoughts techies?

Kr

lol

Hi ya

Any thoughts techies?

Kr

lol

Isn't 180 bhp / 200 bhp = 90% thus only 10% less?

Hi ya

Any thoughts techies?

Kr

lol

I would guess that the newer 2.0 vRS has suffered more artificial factory limiting of its real power potential - give both engines full remaps etc and I suspect that things would change. But in terms of performance on any car there are a lot of factors to consider that affect performance - for example the new 1.4 engine on the just released Furby vRS is only a fraction of a second slower in 0-60 time than a new Octy vRS with a 2.0 litre engine- and this is as much to do with the lower weight it is moving as it is the fact that with the extra turbo-charging VAG have done to the 1.4 more of the engines real potential is on show (it will be interesting to see if re-maps will make such a difference on this engine as they do to the Octy one)...

Edited 5 August, 201015 yr by Delacroix

Isn't 180 bhp / 200 bhp = 90% thus only 10% less?

Sorry I mean the new 1.8T ie the 160hp 1.8 TSI. Same EA888 engine as TSI VRS, same bore actually, only different strokes!

By slower do you mean acceleration or top speed?

Either way, gearing will have a lot to do with the differences in acceleration and at high speed, you need a lot of power for every extra mph due to the effects of wind resistance so a small differential in top speed can still exist due to a larger difference in power.

Steve

Different gearing, probably.

HTH

I would guess that the newer 2.0 vRS has suffered more artificial factory limiting of its real power potential - give both engines full remaps etc and I suspect that things would change. But in terms of performance on any car there are a lot of factors to consider that affect performance - for example the new 1.4 engine on the just released Furby vRS is only a fraction of a second slower in 0-60 time than a new Octy vRS with a 2.0 litre engine- and this is as much to do with the lower weight it is moving as it is the fact that with the extra turbo-charging VAG have done to the 1.4 more of the engines real potential is on show (it will be interesting to see if re-maps will make such a difference on this engine as they do to the Octy one)...

You are right there, VRS TSI backs off boost pressure from 5K reves and actually from 4.5K on the 1.8 TSI. Even with the backing off of boast pressure they both hold a flatish power curve for an amazing spread of revs!

lol

in my opinion there are several reasons:

- different wheels (225 on vrs vs 205 on 1.8tsi)

- different cx (vrs has diffeent bumpers, spoiler)

- traction problems on low speed - I think if both of them where four wheel drive the difference would be bigger

By slower do you mean acceleration or top speed?

Either way, gearing will have a lot to do with the differences in acceleration and at high speed, you need a lot of power for every extra mph due to the effects of wind resistance so a small differential in top speed can still exist due to a larger difference in power.

Steve

Well it is about 8% on acceleration and top speed. Speed is largely a cubic function ie to go twice as fast you need 8 times more power, rolling resistance or more a square function but much less of a factor than aero drag.

lol

weight, gearing, traction - lots of reasons really.

Also, i've read that the 1.8 TSi engines usually produce significantly more power than quoted.

weight, gearing, traction - lots of reasons really.

Also, i've read that the 1.8 TSi engines usually produce significantly more power than quoted.

I hope so (power more than quoted). Certainly interesting it is half a second faster to 62 mph than the VRS diesel and has the same top speed (140mph).

Since I am going for the 7 speed DSG (with paddle as I need the car phone) the gearbox is only suppose to take 250 NM of torque but even if that was held from 4500 to 6000 rpm would mean 200 hp (at the engine

ie Power=2* 3.142 * Revs*Torque) without subjecting drive trail to any more than the torque designed for.

I think it is initial traction more than anything why 1.8 TSI and VRS are quite close. will be interesting doing some drag racing against the wife's VRS when I get my 1.8TSI DSG, perfect gear changes against manual although getting the DSG cars off the line is quite an art too!

Edited 5 August, 201015 yr by lol

Friction of air.

If it's top speed, then even if identical, it isn't a linear thing.

The faster you go, the harder it is to push through the air and so the more power you will need for each extra mph gained.

Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice as fast. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times the work done in half the time requires eight times the power.

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29#Power

Edited 5 August, 201015 yr by cheezemonkhai

I hope so (power more than quoted). Certainly interesting it is half a second faster to 62 mph than the VRS diesel and has the same top speed (140mph).

This will be due to the shorter rev range on the VRS meaning an extra gear change (an also the fact it is hard to get traction on the diesel at low speeds). In gear the diesel VRS is going to be a fair bit quicker.

This will be due to the shorter rev range on the VRS meaning an extra gear change (an also the fact it is hard to get traction on the diesel at low speeds). In gear the diesel VRS is going to be a fair bit quicker.

You can check out the performace difference between these car at the following site:

2.0 vRS (Petrol) vrs 1.8TSI

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1357-2671.htm

2.0 vRS (Petrol) vrs vRS (Diesel)

From the table the diesel vRS has slower in gear acceleration

Friction of air.If it's top speed, then even if identical, it isn't a linear thing.The faster you go, the harder it is to push through the air and so the more power you will need for each extra mph gained.From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29#Power

Spot on the money. Its not far off expotential.

500hp can get you 200mph, yet look at the veryon, another extra 500bhp to get 50mph more

You can check out the performace difference between these car at the following site:

2.0 vRS (Petrol) vrs 1.8TSI

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1357-2671.htm

2.0 vRS (Petrol) vrs vRS (Diesel)

From the table the diesel vRS has slower in gear acceleration

Interesting reading.......

=============================================================================

Vehicles Skoda Octavia II 1.8 TSi V S Skoda Octavia II RS 2.0 TDI

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gearbox : manual 6 gear manual 6 gear

Power : 160 PS 170 PS

Torque : 250 Nm 350 Nm

Weight/Power ratio : 9.13 Kg/PS 1 9.24 Kg/PS 1

1 Weight (EU) heaviest verified in running order

Performances

*

Max Real Speed : 223 Km/h 224 Km/h

Km : 28.4 s . 30.2 s.

0 to 40 : 2.2 s. 2.3 s.

0 to 60 : 4 s. 3.8 s.

0 to 80 : 5.8 s. 6.1 s.

0 to 100 : 7.7 s. 8.6 s.

0 to 120 : 11.3 s. 12.5 s.

0 to 140 : 15.2 s. 16.6 s.

0 to 160 : 19.9 s. 23.3 s.

80 to 120 min : 5.5 s. 6.1 s.

80 to 120 in 4 : 6.6 s. 6.3 s.

80 to 120 in 5 : 8.7 s. 8.2 s.

80 to 120 in 6 : 10.5 s. 11.1 s

Very close but petrol clearly quicker and if one goes for 7 speed DSG in the 1.8TSI then no gear issues

lol

Edited 6 August, 201015 yr by lol

I wonder if those figures are for the PD diesel or the new CR.

Also, i've read that the 1.8 TSi engines usually produce significantly more power than quoted.

I've read that too - if it's putting out closer to 180bhp then that would pretty much explain the OP's observations.

so i collected my 1.8tsi l&k yesterday. never driven a vrs but this l&k is quick, but more than that smoooothe. Very very refined engine, just pulls right across the rev range. the car ate the motorway on the way home

I wonder if those figures are for the PD diesel or the new CR.

The figures are for the PD diesel I think and not sure whether for the EA113 and therefore not the EA888 petrol engines, both engines are slightly better than their predessors for power range, weight I think but the difference is quite small ie a range so small Skoda do not change the performance figures but only the torque and power at revs and CO2 I think.

Amazing that the CO2 for the 1.8TSI is 155 for the DSG and 150 for the diesel and therefore company car tax I presume would be lower on the similarly performing petrol than the diesel which is unusual I reckon.