core, I opened up a can of worms.

HID is always a good one

Its a little bit like Palestians vs Israelis, sunni vs shia, catholic vs protestant ...

Edited 12 September, 201015 yr by snow_muncher

It is interesting to note that many people have requirely had their cars MOTed after fitting 2nd gen HID kits, without issue.

Now I know the UKMOT is pretty crude compared to German TUV or other European system, however it shows they can pass the basic tests.

Since I'm (hopefully) going to see my new engine/turbo running tomorrow, I'll ask my tuner is any kit cars have got through SVA/IVA with HID.

I think the bottom line has to be, if the light on the vehicle pass all the tests, it doesn't matter what type of bulb system you have fitted, be it traditional bulb, HID or even LED

Come to think of it, don't think those muppets @ the DoT even know you can get LED powerful enough for headlights ....

I agree,

the original post was are these worthwhile and what kits are people using.

So I believe this answer is best left to people who have got them fitted.

I assume anyone fitting or modifying their car for that matter will already research the legalities/requirments that the are set and make their choice accordingly.

There are too many variances with the kits out there to condemn them all, plus there are plenty of cars like some renaults using reflector housings with xenon bulbs, there is just no hard and fast rule....as yet...

if only they were fitted as standard!

Just wish there where comparable LED systems, little way off though ...

I recon under 5yrs for sure though!

It has been covered many times before and to be honest, I personally agree with snow muncher. If the car can pass the test and not suffer from light scatter, then it should be absolutely no different regardless of bulb type.

However I and many others get blinded too often by muppets who's vehicles clearly don't meet this test and just switch bulbs come MOT time. For this reason, I maintain that retrofit without OE specification should be illegal. This would hopefully lessen the number of people who use them from day to day without having them tested for fear of being pulled over.

For this reason, I try to persuade as many people against it as possible. I just think it shows disregard for other road users and puts you at risk of being lumped in with the boy racers with their 10 year old bangers with huge exhausts and cheap, DIY, HID kits.

I have done a LOT of research into oe xenon / aftermarket hids and have done this in a way to not blind others, if they did i would remove them without thought.

Then if true, that is certainly refreshing. I only wish more drivers would take this stance as I'm sure many are well aware of the hindrance caused but simply don't care. I'm afraid though, that it does not change my point of view.

As for are they worthwhile? I believe the answer is best left to anyone who drives at night and has to contended with them as well as the users. My answer would be, no.

No - not that long

The LED tech is already available, and in use, just not in car headlight units yet.

I remember reading somewhere about using them is small UAV helicopters to save power over HID search lights ...

Well, at least your argument sees both sides, as does mine....

I also agree i hate people wih blue as blue blinding retrofit kits and agree as always (in tuning) the chav element always ruin it (like with loud big bore exhausts for example) however as said i consider myself a sensible modder (see my previous posts) and with age comes responsibility. I do not have a 'sod everyone else attitude' and would not have these in my car if they blinded others.

I have played with several kits in projector and non projector housings, i am also planning to retrofit projector lenses into my headlamps to try to get the best light i can (taking all factors into account). These kits need to be aimed properly, and if done so do not offer any more blinding to drivers than modern 4x4s or high end mercs and bmws.

These cars have them fitted but still cause issues, therefore agree that the decision should come down to the testers.

I drive a lot abroad, large parts of european motorways are unlit and do not have cats eyes, also in the mountains there is little to no back lighting, by fitting the kit i did, i now have lighting that is no longer inadequate and frankly dangerous.

I dont like your blanket 'cos its retrofit hid it should be illegal' statement, plently of vag owners modify their cars as appropriate and responsibly too(as do many non vag owners), the approach a lot of people have is as its not standard it should not be allowed, where does that stop....exhausts, suspension...remaps....

I appreciate your concerns and agree, anyone with blinding lights....not just hid/xenon so that includes all the people who think fitting ralley bulbs as an alternative is ok, should be penalised accordingly.

Edited 12 September, 201015 yr by Oet

I also agree that changing bulbs is not acceptable before an mot, if it doesnt go through....change them

Again, i am assuming that our members are not like this and are also responsible with what they do researching the pros and cons first.

OE does not have to be the only way, there are plenty of alternatives to OE in the tuning market for example that pass TUV and MOT testing, the requirement should be that the light source as said does not blind/glare or cause scatter.

Edited 12 September, 201015 yr by Oet

I like the look of these.

http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/h4-hilo-beam-canbus-hid-conversion-kit-p-455.html

Am sure you will get the usual....its not legal...they blind people....you need washer jets and self levelling blah blah blah...

they are not illegal, angle and adjust properly and you dont blind

Happy not to disappoint. From direct experience and learning about headlight design ...

1. I've found that bi-xenon bulbs in headlamps designed for standard H4 bulbs can result in a disappointing beam pattern. There are a number of problems due to the location of the light source. First is that the arc location isn't consistent. Next is that the mechanism to change between dipped and main beam is probably set so that the dipped beam is fairly close to that of an H4 dipped filament, but the main beam is then way off, leading to a very patchy main beam pattern. Finally I've experience where the switching between dipped and main isn't always immediate and, in some cars, can occasionally lead to the bulb being extinguished. This is particularly dangerous since the only way to get the bulb switched on is to switch off the headlights, and if you're at speed when this happens then you can see why it's not a good thing.

2. There are two issues relating to the dipped reflector beam pattern which tends to make retro-fitted units blinding to on-coming drivers. The first is that all H4 headlights allow a small proportion of light to be reflected upwards to illuminate unlit roadsigns. Here the issue is that the extra brightness of the HID bulb means a lot more light is escaping higher than is the case for a real H4 bulb, directly leading to lots of extra glare. The second problem is that the beam pattern mandated for HID bulbs is different to that used for H1 and H4 bulbs. The normal beam pattern has a horizontal cutoff to the right of straight ahead, and an angled cutoff rising to the left of straight ahead. This gives some illumination to the verge. In HID headlamps, the dipped beam pattern is different, in that instead of the angled cutoff there is a second horizontal cutoff that is a little above the right hand horizontal cutoff - it's like a step up, going from right to left. This reduces the amount of glare to oncoming drivers on a left bend, and it is this which is exacerbated by retro-fitted HID bulbs in an H4 (or H1) housing.

the issues that you mention are happily not ones that i have suffered with, perhaps your kit was poorly made or incorrectly fitted..

I think it's a gamble you take as to whether your local force are going to be anal about them. Our local lot don't seem too fussed but that's not the case everywhere :no:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/143350-headlights/page__view__findpost__p__1796683

If you have to take them off I suppose they can always go on ebay

Edited 13 September, 201015 yr by chicken_eyebrow

the issues that you mention are happily not ones that i have suffered with, perhaps your kit was poorly made or incorrectly fitted..

Oet I think you are taking the comments that oppose yours as insults. This isn't the case, the OP is asking on an open forum whether it is considered worth it. AnotherGareth was stating his personal experience, as was I. Maybe his kit question was poorly made or fitted, or perhaps, you are just lucky in that your set work alright.

Regardless, how many other poorly made or incorrectly fitted kits are out there do you think? I wager that this "poor" set up vastly outnumbers the set ups that work within specification such as yours.

I just find your approach to the subject "Am sure you will get the usual....its not legal...they blind people....you need washer jets and self levelling blah blah blah..." rather juvenile and dismissive. It is no matter of blah blah blah when other motorists are inconvenienced let alone sometimes endangered by another motorists modifications. You might find this sensationalist, but it does happen. We are not all allowed to drive round with our main beam on because it causes a hazard to others, as such, the personal opinion which me and Gareth obviously share is that the after market HID option should be either closed off or more rigorous measures be taken to quell the customers who end up with beams shining all over the place.

Been speaking to my tuner, who has experrience of IVA certification.

An aftermarket kit won't get through that test, because they actually check for auto-leveling and washers.

However they (2nd generation HID) can pass light scatter and intensity checks @ 4300K.

This would appear to put thm into a grey area of legality - they pass UK tests and standards, but don't match EU type certification.

There are quite alot of mods that fall into the grey area - brake upgrades, suspension upgrades, engine upgrades - none of these have EU type certification either !

Need some rich lawyer with fancy kit car or something with aftermarket HID to test case law !

Jcb, Not at all.... I was just saying maybe the kit was poorly made or not fitted properly, same goes for any modifications, it does happen.

My response was just my experience, after lots of research, especially on what can,cant,should and shouldn’t be done. Again I have drive cars with and without and cars with oe hid and cars with retrofit hid.

Yes I find your post irritating as you have decided you don’t like them and that’s it, without having any real hands on experience of them (unlike Gareth) and in your own words try to dissuade people. Its like you were waiting with your already made response just waiting to get it in there (on your quest to dissuade others). I appreciate you like me have been blinded by bright lights (funnily enough tonight this happened to me) however, how do you know they were not rally bulbs (another popular upgrade), or worse still an oe kit that doesn’t adjust quickly enough. There is way too many variances in the parts out there, oe fitted can be reflector or projector and too many kits have slow self levelling, really the answer is not ban all kits end of...as you seem to wish, but to regulate with testing, if it works without inconveniencing others it should stay. At the end of the day, if done properly hid/xenon offers much better and safer light for driving, why should we be penalised as a second owner for not buying xenon from new and wanting to improve our lights. It should just be done properly.

This is a forum about cars, and a large part of that is owners who modify their cars. The post was anyone fitted and are they worth doing.....Rather than just quoting law (or not as the case turns out) you could help people to find out ways to fit this type of upgrade properly, after all we don’t all have the luxury of oe xenon. I believe this can be done, and think that is true of most modifications, they should be allowed if done properly. My concern is too many people with draconian measures who have no real experience of modifications will try to ban us playing with our cars, like in France and Italy where modifications are seriously restricted....we are part of Europe after all, it could happen. We should look to Germany and their stringent TUV testing, where these exact kits should be tested and fitted with correct guidelines. I am not juvenile in my response, I just knew you or someone like you would post this very type of response, hence my comment blah blah. I am not blase and do not shirk responsibility, I have mentioned several times I am aware of others and my responsibility to them, and I believe many others are too. I think any member (would like to think anyway) would do the necessary research when looking into fitting mods and hid to their cars, and do so with an informed choice without dangering others and be aware of the law.

At the end of the day there are plenty of dangerous things that occur on the roads, drivers on phones....people who hog the outside lane on the motorway...people speeding in towns...people who cut up others on the roundabout without looking I could go on..... I wonder if your war against all things bad extends to them, where do we stop......

Your statement was based on a 'grey area' and although the point is valid, I can't ignore it after all, you quote law that’s not law. A lesser-informed person would read that and assume.

There are those for and against almost all things, I just think it’s prudent to have some personal experience before posting on a topic...

i am not going to put this much effort into a respone or post again...this week at least

Didnt know they were on ebay, but not seen any bi-xenon kits for the octy at the usual mod part suppliers.

VOSA are also clamping down on poor kits as others have said. Mostly due to chavs using poorly set up lights, on non-projector clusters blinding others. For every good kit out there, I bet there are at least 3 that are dodgy.

Yes you can find them on ebay and other hid stores, just not as popular.

Havent seen VOSA test at night but its not a bad idea, I just hope they don't forget to check emissions in the process.