Another question from me DSG or 4X4 on the Elegance TDI 170?

[Sw1]

Hi All,

I have been speaking to a few colleagues about my potential purchase and hear all sorts of stories with regards to 4X4 problems and DSG being rubbish from others, so I've never driven a Auto and have always preferred Manuals. Based on this the 4X4 sounds like the perfect match however a number of colleagues have stated the following:

4X4 very problematic, and expensive if it goes wrong (won't matter under warranty I guess), more concerned about the hassle factor. Has anyone had any issues with the 4X4 on the superb?

I heard another story about having to replace all four tyres at once....this sounds like rubbish to me.

Just to put into perspective I will probably only ever need the 4X4 in snow or on the odd gravel road.

Saying that I'm considering DSG as I recently keep getting a sore knee when driving long distances from work, think it's the BMW M sport clutch pedal being a tad firm to depress, will the 2 wheel drive DSG cope with average snow conditions to an acceptable level? i.e. would only need to get home, I'm not going to be out driving with 1 ft of snow.

Edited 1 December, 2010 by Sw1

[2slo]

Hi All,

I have been speaking to a few colleagues about my potential purchase and hear all sorts of stories with regards to 4X4 problems and DSG being rubbish from others, so I've never driven a Auto and have always preferred Manuals. Based on this the 4X4 sounds like the perfect match however a number of colleagues have stated the following:

4X4 very problematic, and expensive if it goes wrong (won't matter under warranty I guess), more concerned about the hassle factor. Has anyone had any issues with the 4X4 on the superb?

I heard another story about having to replace all four tyres at once....this sounds like rubbish to me.

Just to put into perspective I will probably only ever need the 4X4 in snow or on the odd gravel road.

Saying that I'm considering DSG as I recently keep getting a sore knee when driving long distances from work, think it's the BMW M sport clutch pedal being a tad firm to depress, will the 2 wheel drive DSG cope with average snow conditions to an acceptable level? i.e. would only need to get home, I'm not going to be out driving with 1 ft of snow.

I think I can cover most of your points here. I have the 170 Elegance estate 4x4 on order for a number of reasons, two of which apply to your question. Firstly I had an 08 Superb fwd hatch which was brilliant with one exception. it couldn't deal with the winter weather where we live and struggled with anything slippery. Fair enough, it's not designed for that. I changed that for what I have at the moment a Volvo XC70 awd. (the estate 4x4 wasn't available at the time) This uses the same haldex system as the Superb, i.e. fwd until it detects slip then drive shifted to the rear wheels in accordance with which wheels have traction (via the abs sensors). Although disappointed with the Volvo overall the haldex system is brilliant and is keeping me on the road in snow up to the top of it's wheels at the moment. The haldex on mine has done 25000 miles and never missed a beat.

The clutch/ gearbox on Superbs are a joy to use, a little notchy when new but free up nicely after a few thousand miles. Don't be put off getting a manual Skoda by BMW, different altogether.

So to cover your questions I'm back to Skoda imminently for quality and haldex 4wd and wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 170 4x4 Elegance.

Mark.

Edited 1 December, 2010 by 2slo

[Sw1]

I think I can cover most of your points here. I have the 170 Elegance estate 4x4 on order for a number of reasons, two of which apply to your question. Firstly I had an 08 Superb fwd hatch which was brilliant with one exception. it couldn't deal with the winter weather where we live and struggled with anything slippery. Fair enough, it's not designed for that. I changed that for what I have at the moment a Volvo XC70 awd. (the estate 4x4 wasn't available at the time) This uses the same haldex system as the Superb, i.e. fwd until it detects slip then drive shifted to the rear wheels in accordance with which wheels have traction (via the abs sensors). Although disappointed with the Volvo overall the haldex system is brilliant and is keeping me on the road in snow up to the top of it's wheels at the moment. The haldex on mine has done 25000 miles and never missed a beat.

The clutch/ gearbox on Superbs are a joy to use, a little notchy when new but free up nicely after a few thousand miles. Don't be put off getting a manual Skoda by BMW, different altogether.

So to cover your questions I'm back to Skoda imminently for quality and haldex 4wd and wouldn't hesitate to recommend the 170 4x4 Elegance.

Mark.

Brilliant, thanks for the response, going to show the wife then will probably order next week after a test drive

[tomcatdk]

Hi All,

I have been speaking to a few colleagues about my potential purchase and hear all sorts of stories with regards to 4X4 problems and DSG being rubbish from others, so I've never driven a Auto and have always preferred Manuals. Based on this the 4X4 sounds like the perfect match however a number of colleagues have stated the following:

4X4 very problematic, and expensive if it goes wrong (won't matter under warranty I guess), more concerned about the hassle factor. Has anyone had any issues with the 4X4 on the superb?

I heard another story about having to replace all four tyres at once....this sounds like rubbish to me.

Just to put into perspective I will probably only ever need the 4X4 in snow or on the odd gravel road.

Saying that I'm considering DSG as I recently keep getting a sore knee when driving long distances from work, think it's the BMW M sport clutch pedal being a tad firm to depress, will the 2 wheel drive DSG cope with average snow conditions to an acceptable level? i.e. would only need to get home, I'm not going to be out driving with 1 ft of snow.

I had the same question in mind before i ordered my Superb 170 TDI DSG.

4x4 is good..... when you need it.

DSG is with you ALL the time (and all seasons).

As you, i had the same problem med a sore clutch knee. I have now had my car for little under a month, and the clutch knee is pretty much gone.

I would definetly go for the DSG.

[jakeyc]

I have the 170 DSG and it is great. Although I can imagine the 4x4 manual would be more fun. Although you can't really throw this thing around all that much!

[cookdn]

Saying that I'm considering DSG as I recently keep getting a sore knee when driving long distances from work, think it's the BMW M sport clutch pedal being a tad firm to depress, will the 2 wheel drive DSG cope with average snow conditions to an acceptable level? i.e. would only need to get home, I'm not going to be out driving with 1 ft of snow.

I had never driven an auto before choosing my latest company car replacement. After a v.short period of getting my head around how to best operate the DSG at junctions and traffic lights etc I was completely converted.

It seriously makes driving the car less tiring and unless you are a die-hard enthusiast who couldn't entertain the idea of not being in complete control of the gears then I'm not sure why you wouldn't want it. Despite only driving CR170 DSG demonstrators I compromised and went for the CR140 over the CR170 so that I could have the DSG. The budget wouldn't stretch to both.

Best regards

David

[Tankdave]

DSG is nice, you will like it. It's got some quirks but it makes for a very smooth fluid drive.

BTW, Whats all this "best way to operate at junctions and traffic lights" stuff? I don't do anything apart from stop look and go.

[Sw1]

DSG is nice, you will like it. It's got some quirks but it makes for a very smooth fluid drive.

BTW, Whats all this "best way to operate at junctions and traffic lights" stuff? I don't do anything apart from stop look and go.

DSG is leading the way now your not making this easy on my guys, I need to go and test drive....if only it would stop snowing and I could get out of my road.

[tomcatdk]

DSG is leading the way now your not making this easy on my guys, I need to go and test drive....if only it would stop snowing and I could get out of my road.

Hi Sw1

I live in sweden. Up here we have tons of snow, ice and everything else that comes with that in the winter.

I have allways had FWD cars and i have never had any issues with traction as long as i have the right winter tyres.

4x4 is good, and you will feel a notiably difference in traction with such in the winter, but FWD with good wintertyres should be adequate.

That said, i'm not a really a good salesman here The 4x4 system comes from Sweden

Edited 2 December, 2010 by tomcatdk

[5icz]

Sw1 you live in south England. 4x4 is a waste of money for you because you will never use it go for DSG - you will enjoy it every ride!

[ukcruiser]

Sw1,

i went for 4x4 - Manual box is lovely, we DO GET bad weather (this week is a good example!) and i have never been stuck or even close to it, nor have i worried about getting off the drive - in good weather, the 4x4 is great, and does improve (imho) safety and drivability of the vehicle.

Al.

[Caravan_man]

I suggest if you keep to normal roads, as against driving in soggy fields, just front wheel drive is perfectly adequate. Maintaining progress in poor conditions like today in the south east is 90% the driver and 10% the car. Gentle on all controls, keep moving, plan ahead. I scraped 9" of snow off my CR170 dsg yesterday and once I had got off the drive, had no problems driving at all, even though the side roads hadn't been cleared at all and consisted of compacted snow. OK I agree I would have trouble towing the caravan in these conditions!

The DSG box simply works well and removes yet another job and effort from the driver. I certainly recommend dsg so have a good test drive - even if you can't get a Superb to do this, try the Octavia or the VW equivalents.

Brian

[cookdn]

BTW, Whats all this "best way to operate at junctions and traffic lights" stuff? I don't do anything apart from stop look and go.

Having only ever driven manual vehicles and been taught to drive in Sheffield where almost everywhere is on some sort of hill, when stopping at junctions I instinctively depress the clutch, put the handbrake on, release the brake pedal and change into first gear. Moving off again is then simply a balance between releasing the clutch and handbrake. The DSG works differently to this. At junctions you either sit in drive with the brake pedal depressed (hoping that you are not burning out the retinas of the person behind ) or slip from drive to neutral and apply the handbrake then back again to set off.

While driving the demonstrators I didn't quite get the knack of quickly moving the DSG from neutral to drive so mostly opted for the brake pedal/burn retinas approach. I'll just have to see how it goes when I eventually get my hands on the car next week.

Best regards

David

Edited 2 December, 2010 by cookdn

[darren tt]

DSG is nice, you will like it. It's got some quirks but it makes for a very smooth fluid drive.

BTW, Whats all this "best way to operate at junctions and traffic lights" stuff? I don't do anything apart from stop look and go.

Hi, because the DSG has 2 clutches it means one clutch is always engaged. I understand this can lead to overheating when in stationary traffic, meaning you should de-select the gear and go into neutral, there is even a warning light in the dash to warn of gearbox overheating.

With this in mind, and also the very large delay in build weeks due to a lack of gearboxes, the 4x4 is def the best choice, especially with the bad winters we seem to be experiencing lately.

4x4 is the future.

[cookdn]

Hi, because the DSG has 2 clutches it means one clutch is always engaged. I understand this can lead to overheating when in stationary traffic, meaning you should de-select the gear and go into neutral, there is even a warning light in the dash to warn of gearbox overheating.

I don't think this correct. The clutches are completely disengaged when the brake pedal is fully depressed. With the 'wet' oil cooled clutch plates in the six-speed box there is some hydraulic drag between the disengaged plates which causes a slow build up of heat over a prolonged period. The 'dry' clutch plates in the seven-speed box for cars with lower torque output engines do not suffer from this potential problem.

Obviously if you are sat in stationary traffic you would go from drive into neutral in the same way as I would go into neutral+hand brake in a manual car. Under normal driving conditions this isn't necessary. There was a much better explanation of this posted elsewhere on the site not long ago.

Best regards

David

Edited 2 December, 2010 by cookdn

[tomcatdk]

Hi, because the DSG has 2 clutches it means one clutch is always engaged. I understand this can lead to overheating when in stationary traffic, meaning you should de-select the gear and go into neutral, there is even a warning light in the dash to warn of gearbox overheating.

With this in mind, and also the very large delay in build weeks due to a lack of gearboxes, the 4x4 is def the best choice, especially with the bad winters we seem to be experiencing lately.

4x4 is the future.

DSG has been with us for many years now and it is probably the best automatic gearbox on the market in its different incarnations (6, 7 and soon 8 shift gearbox).

[darren tt]

DSG has been with us for many years now and it is probably the best automatic gearbox on the market in its different incarnations (6, 7 and soon 8 shift gearbox).

The 6 speed is a wet box, whereas the 7 and 8 are dry, not exactly sure what this means, but the dry gearbox does not suffer from overheating.

[cookdn]

The 6 speed is a wet box, whereas the 7 and 8 are dry, not exactly sure what this means, but the dry gearbox does not suffer from overheating.

'Wet' means that the clutch plates rotate in a bath of oil. There is more information on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

Best regards

David

p.s. Interesting that the Wikipedia article contradicts the 'hydraulic drag' explanation:

"The DSG should not be held in any of the active gear modes while stationary using the footbrake for other than brief periods —

due to the clutches being held on the bite point

, as this can overheat the clutches and transmission fluid."

I'll see if I can find the original forum posting I cited.

Edited 2 December, 2010 by cookdn

[Tankdave]

Please do if you can?, I'm interested in the DSG "techie" stuff, and as to what any brief period actual is?

[cookdn]

Please do if you can?, I'm interested in the DSG "techie" stuff, and as to what any brief period actual is?

Here you go, the interesting post is #48:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/180235-a-question-about-dsg/page__st__40

Best regards

David

[Tankdave]

So unless you going to be stationary for more than a couple/few minutes it's OK to stay in Drive. Good because that's exactly how I'm driving mine.

[Superbjoser]

How much towing do you do? This is also something to consider, especially in the winter.

There is no towing for me, and has never had a problem to make my way trough any weather conditions so far with conventional front-wheel drive or back-wheel drive. The latter is far more "fun" though...

From my understanding the 4WD is far less used than the DSG, it uses more fuel and can be sensitive to the imbalance, uneven loads, and uneven wear & tear.

As many others here have said, DSG has benefits every time you're driving, 4WD is seldom used. One way for you maybe is the 140/DSG/4WD combo, if available and if you can live with a little less "oumph"

I can not!

[jakeyc]

There is no problem holding the dsg on the brake. it is clearly stated in the manual that this is how to drive. Putting into neutral and handbrake defeats the object of an auto imho.

I've always hated autos until I tried the dsg and I really love it. To be clear though I also love a manual gearbox equally. I just think that the dsg fits very well with the style, comfort and size of the Superb. I'd hate to have an auto in my wifes Fiat 500 for example.

I'd have loved the option of a 170 4x4 DSG. That would have been perfect. Maybe next time.

[pixor]

I really like the DSG box on my Octavia. It's a lot more 'direct' feeling than the auto box on my previous BMW.

I've just got a set of wheels with winter tyres on, and the traction is excellent. Remember, a 4x4 on summer tyres will let go before a 2wd on winters.

[Caravan_man]

How much towing do you do? This is also something to consider, especially in the winter.

There is no towing for me, and has never had a problem to make my way trough any weather conditions so far with conventional front-wheel drive or back-wheel drive. The latter is far more "fun" though...

From my understanding the 4WD is far less used than the DSG, it uses more fuel and can be sensitive to the imbalance, uneven loads, and uneven wear & tear.

As many others here have said, DSG has benefits every time you're driving, 4WD is seldom used. One way for you maybe is the 140/DSG/4WD combo, if available and if you can live with a little less "oumph"

I can not!

With my CR170 dsg (front wheel drive only), I tow a twin axle, 7.8m o/a large Bailey touring caravan, probably only about 1750 miles a year. A perfect towing vehicle. I try to avoid placing the van on sloping grass sites, as when wet and starting to pull off, the front grip sometimes will struggle, where perhaps a 4x4 wouldn't have a problem. I retain two specialist plastic grip strips that can be laid down to form a short road to get going if there is a problem - once the whole train is moving, it will keep going. In a real problem, there is usually another way off any site (even backwards!) and over many years I have never been stuck requiring a tractor pull. However I am a fair weather camper and don't usually use the van in the heart of winter. I certainly don't expect to get stuck in solo mode with either mud/snow or ice. I might invest in the Autosock though - this seems a great idea for winter emergency.

Brian