Winter tires last much more then summers since they get used lets say 4 months a year Dec-March, you should get 3-4y of winter usage. Thats why even if initial cost is high tire/rim, they do last long and safety is paramount.

If it snows a bit, or is icy, I drive more slowly than in normal conditions. I bet the time I have 'lost' is less than the time taken to change 4 wheels!

If it snows lots you can only drive as fast as the slowest. So not a lot to gain.

If you crash due to ice or snow, you are driving too fast for the conditions..

No point in fitting winter tyres in SE England IMHO.

Reasonably heavy snow the other day and the guy in front of me slows from 60 (in a 50) to 20 then down to 10mph.

I was a good distance behind him, but quite frankly going that slowly is dangerous. I am fairly certain the guy behind wasn't expecting to come across two cars doing 10mph on a 50mph road.

I ended up putting the hazards on then carefully overtaking at 30mph, mainly because I didn't want to end up stuffed onto the back of his car by another driver that couldn't stop or steer on snow due to a lack of grip.

I have access to two cars, one with and one without winters. If it even looks like it's going to think of snowing then the other car gets parked up until the weather has warmed up. I did take it out to get some fuel and give it a run out and the tyres are noticeably more slippery in the cold damp weather.

It's not the OMG I have no grip, but when you compare them back to back one feels like it's slightly sliding over the road surface rather than sitting on and gripping it.

That's going from 205/55R16 on the winter tyres to 175/65/r15 on the non winter tyres. The latter should IMHO be better in poor conditions.

So yes you can drive on normal tyres, but just think how dangerous it becomes when it starts to dump snow on the way back from wherever you went.

Also the years ago tales. The tyres were narrower, the tread area covered in block with plenty of sipes or drainage channels for water release.

These patterns gripp much better on snow than the smooth surface summer tyres that most cars have these days. Yes loads of smooth rubber is great in the dry.

Ignoring the rubber, compare the tread patterns.

Nokian Z (Summer):

Nokian WR A3 (Cold Weather):

Michelin summer tyre (PS2 modern):

Goodyear Eagle GT II High performance summer tyre (80's):

That last tyre has a lot more open space than the rubber fitted to even a fiesta these days.

For those who quite fairly think that one tyre is all they can afford, then the following makes good reading:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2011-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

Very valid points made by subsequent contributors , but I still contend that the roads would be a safer place , summer or winter , were the legal limit to be 3mm and not 1.6mm as current legislation demands , even on narrower tyres .

Steve

Very valid points made by subsequent contributors , but I still contend that the roads would be a safer place , summer or winter , were the legal limit to be 3mm and not 1.6mm as current legislation demands , even on narrower tyres .

Steve

Wouldn't hurt. Winter tyres are deemed to be worn out at 4mm, so a 3mm limit would help (assuming people stuck to it).

I saw a taxi pull in for new tyres recently, with browny grey bits on the tyres, that I assumed were dirt. That was until I got a closer look at one of the tyres. Worn down the canvas.

If a taxi driver will do it, then I'm sure there are plenty of others who will too :(

I'm afraid youre falling into the trap that most people fall into...

Confusing the use of winter tyres with snow conditions and not with very cold and icey ones

Winter tyres are not just for snow.

They are designed to give much better grip in cold weather than conventional tyres will

Stopping distances are seriously reduced and there is more grip on sheet ice as well.

The tyre width is only a factor in snow, not on ice

In short the rubber stays softer in temperatures lower than 7C

The tyre pattern is also different with stipes that aid grip in snowy conditions

Hi

I agree with this. I have a full set of Continental WinterContact tyres on my astravan and a full set on the wife's VRS and they make a huge difference in snow and cold wet weather. They seem particularly good at dispersing standing water and tend not to aquaplane as much.

As far as I am aware, winter tyres have 10% wider tread grooves than summer tyres so handle snow and water better and also they have a different compund that stays pliable down to -7 deg C.

I am glad I spent the money at the beginning of the year and got two sets of steel wheels and winter tyres. They are well worth the initial outlay and it means that the summer tyres last much longer, not to mention the salt and other crap doesn't destroy the alloys.

Cheers

Dave

Excellent post Cheezemonkhai. There are lots of people who have the 'never needed them before' attitude and I'd never thought about the physical differences in tread pattern of older tyres before.

Last year my BMW on winters could go anywhere I tried to take it in the snow. My wifes Fabia on summer tyres was stuck at the bottom of our estate (along with a neighbours Nissan Navara on 22in rims ).

So in snow there is zero contest but it's the fact that they will stop better in general cold conditions that won me over.

If a winter tyre stops even 1m sooner than a summer tyre then that's good enough reason to put a set on the car that my wife and daughter will be in IMO.

And even though I bought used alloys rather than steels for both sets of winter tyres, the financial penalty is negligible as we are not using the expensive summer rubber for 5 months of the year.

Suffice it to say both my cars now run dedicated winter wheels and tyres and will do for years to come.

This week we started getting sheet ice on our cul-de-sac

My wife, my mother-in-law, and her partner all complained of skidding.

Not me though... /smug mode

I just fitted a set of Goodyear Vector 4 seasons tyres as a compromise to my scout. The difference is astounding in these regularly below 5 degs conditions...and they have paid for themselves already after a van on summer tyres slid out across a junction on a blind bend in the snow. On summers I would without doubt have hit him, but these just gripped like it was a dry summers day, and I swerved around him and stopped.

I will from this day forward, ALWAYS budget for a set of winter tyres for every car I own. And that, said the mayor, is that.

Some fair points well made in this thread. Not yet convinced but some sound reasoning.

I'd still like to see more winter tyre advice and tests provided by someone with doesn't have an interest in selling me more tyres though.

I'm far from convinced by some of the anecdotal stuff like the guy saying on here he could hardly keep his 1.2 Fabia loan car on "summers" on the road the other morning when it was cold and damp (but above zero).

Winter tire advice and tests have been going on for last 20y in Europe. Don't know what's to convince you more than it has been written here, let alone online tire test.

Get them and be safe or drive at your peril. There is no winter tire conspiracy against your wallet. There is no pride/macho feeling driving in summer tires in winter.

Winter tire advice and tests have been going on for last 20y in Europe. Don't know what's to convince you more than it has been written here, let alone online tire test.

Get them and be safe or drive at your peril. There is no winter tire conspiracy against your wallet. There is no pride/macho feeling driving in summer tires in winter.

What's supposed to convince me? Very little hard facts.

Look at this:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259444/summer_continental_contisportcontact_3.html

Summer tyre came first against winters in dry handing and braking in temps between 4 and 6 degrees C.

Rubbish in snow I grant you but you winter tyre evangelists are always on about that sub 7 temperature thing...

Edited 20 December, 201114 yr by juan27

How many days of dry roads do you think there will be in Januar-March? 10, 15? There is not enough sun over UK to bone dry roads during these months. Motorways could be dry due to the amount of cars, but what about local roads up to the home? Who's going to clean those?

Of course the summer tire will handle better in dry road. Even if it's -15 on dry roads the summer tires will move on no problem, grip will be less on corners/braking as tire will get hard from cold, but the winter one is not 5 times worst on dry, could be a few % points, meaning for the rest of drive on wet/snow/ice winter one will be much better.

Not an evangelist at all, just from experience, and having winters used 3-4 months a year, It means they will last a good 3-4 years.

What's supposed to convince me? Very little hard facts.

Look at this:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259444/summer_continental_contisportcontact_3.html

Summer tyre came first against winters in dry handing and braking in temps between 4 and 6 degrees C.

Rubbish in snow I grant you but you winter tyre evangelists are always on about that sub 7 temperature thing...

erm....that link you posted shows that below 7 degrees the car stopped a full car length shorter with the winters than with the summers.

At the point where the car with winter tyres had stopped the summer tyre car was still doing 20 mph. If a kid had stepped into the road the chances of stopping in time are much better with the winters.

I'm not sure what part of the link you posted is casting doubt on the value of winter tyres.

confused :S

erm....that link you posted shows that below 7 degrees the car stopped a full car length shorter with the winters than with the summers.

At the point where the car with winter tyres had stopped the summer tyre car was still doing 20 mph. If a kid had stepped into the road the chances of stopping in time are much better with the winters.

I'm not sure what part of the link you posted is casting doubt on the value of winter tyres.

confused :S

"With the help of Continental, we returned to the frozen lakes and bitter -30 degrees Celsius temperatures of Arvidsjaur in Sweden for the snow tests, before heading south to a chilly Contidrom near Hanover, Germany, for the wet and dry assessments.

Click on the Conti summer tyre:

Dry handling 102.7 1

Dry braking 110.3 1

Top ranking as I said although I must admit its confusing...On the one hand they're saying the dry tests were done in the cold, but on the other hand they are saying its to show what happens when you run winters all year round..

I couldn't watch the video so if I've missed something I apologise, but to me the text says the summer tyres stopped and handled better on a dry road in cold conditions?

Edited 20 December, 201114 yr by juan27

There was no test on dry road in the video, only snow and wet or I have gone blind.

The Evo tyre test which was in the magazine a couple of months back was done in conjunction with the Auto Express one I think (it was definitely done with another magazine anyway).

As far as I remember, the results were that the winters were massively better in snow and ice, and marginally better when cold and wet.

The summers were marginally better when cold and dry.

I'll try and dig out the results to confirm this.

So on that basis the winter tyre makes sense from about November to March up here in central Scotland as the roads are cold and damp most of the time.

You also have to remember when you do most of your driving- the majority of people do the majority of their driving between 7-9am and 5-7pm.

At this time in the winter it's dark and cold and the roads are most likely to be damp.

Also, I don't understand the logic of people who say that tyre companies are promoting winter tyres in order to make money.

It's worth re-itterating this point in case people haven't got it yet;

When you have winter tyres on, you can't be putting wear on your summer tyres, therefor you will be extending their life.

If you have something like a vRS with 18's and you swap to 16/17in winters, the chances are the winter tyres will be cheaper than your summer 18in tyres so you will actually be saving money in the long run.

Yes, you will have to pay out up front for new tyres but it will be twice as long before you need to replace you summers so the only extra cost will be a spare set of wheels. This doesn't need to be expensive, especially if you go for a second hand set of steels or alloys.

Nope, that's what confused me, the video just showed that the winters are better than summers

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Also, I don't understand the logic of people who say that tyre companies are promoting winter tyres in order to make money.

Well if the millions of us who don't currently bother with winter tyres suddenly decided to buy a set the tyre companies would have a very good year.....

Nope, that's what confused me, the video just showed that the winters are better than summers

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

From the Evo version...."As expected, the Continental summer tyre is fastest on the dry handling circuit and in dry braking...."

And in the wet where low temps are explicitly mentioned:

"The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season)"

So a good summer tyre outperforms some cheap winter tyres in everything but snow it appears?

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_winter_tyre_test_the_scores.html

I'm not arguing for one moment that there aren't driving conditions where winter tyres significantly outperform summer tyres but where I live there's generally little snow and despite what's been said the roads in the UK in winter are not perpetually wet.

I would be really interested in some good data for summer v winter tyres in low but above zero temperatures on dry and damp roads. These conditions reflect the majority of my winter driving experience.

What for example is the difference in stopping distances from 30mph at 3°C on a damp road?

Interesting....this explicitly says summer tyres do outperform winters in braking on dry surfaces at 5°C but are worse in the wet.

http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Why_fit_winter_tyres_31_May_2011.pdf

The last sentence of that article is enough to reassure me that cold weather tyres are worth it...where I live and the roads I commute on, I haven't seen a dry road for a few weeks.

(this is aside from having experienced the difference of braking and directional changes on a snowy surface)

The last sentence of that article is enough to reassure me that cold weather tyres are worth it...where I live and the roads I commute on, I haven't seen a dry road for a few weeks.

(this is aside from having experienced the difference of braking and directional changes on a snowy surface)

my thoughts exactly. Dry roads are very much the exception at this time of year (and in the so called Sumemr we had this year for that matter).

The bottom line is that all tyres involve some sort of compromise. If it's cold and wet then the winter tyres stop the car much faster. If it's snowy and icy, then there is no contest. If it's dry but cold then you're marginally better on summer tyres. So on balance you're better off having two sets of tyres and switching them. It's not going to work for everyone but of you can afford it and have the space to store them then it's a no brainer.

Interesting....this explicitly says summer tyres do outperform winters in braking on dry surfaces at 5°C but are worse in the wet.

http://www.btmauk.com/data/files/Why_fit_winter_tyres_31_May_2011.pdf

Hmm but it says that the winters would take about 2m further to stop on a dry cold road. n all other cold roads the Summer tyres take at least 5 m further to stop and often much more. So the decision involves balance and trade off. Stey on Summer tyres and you'll stop nearly 2m shorter on a dry road but will be 5 or 10m further on if it's wet or icy.

As I've already said there are conditions where winter tyres are very much better, but as I suspected dry roads at 5°C are not one of them.

For me where I live a combination of some dry roads, Winter periods where the temperature is above 7°C (look at the next five day forecast) and very limited chance of snow and ice mean that I don't think winters are worth the initial and storage costs.

If I lived in the Highlands of Scotland or had to drive daily on untreated country roads I would almost certainly get some.

Edited 21 December, 201114 yr by juan27

So far my many monies haven't been well spent - however...

Tyres aren't exactly a waste of money if you think about it - you car will always need tyres, and while I've got winter ones on the car, I've got a full set of tyres that now have 6 months per year extra life.

Not like I won't use them all up...