Remapping petrol engines?

[101vrs]

Hi to everyone again!!

I find myself in need of advice again!!

?

As my order for a CR VRs looks likely to end up cancelled due to the delays in delivery i'm loooking at 2 altenative options:

1, Petrol VRs, either manual or DSG or:

2, 1.8TSi Elegance with DSG box. Upgrade to sports suspension.

Is it possible to remap the VRs to increase both power & fuel efficiency? (more emphasis on the fuel efficiency!!)

What gains could be seen on the TSi with the DSG box, can it handle extra power & how much?

Cheers in advance

Mark G

[eccleshill]

The 1.8TSi produces 250 thingummies of torque that is already the alleged maximum for the 7 speed DSG. That somewhat limits the remapping possibilities.

[Nobafett]

My choice would be the manual vrs everytime. A remap will see a big increase in power and torque but fuel consumption will remain very similar. You certainly won't make your money back in fuel savings when remapping a petrol engine.

[shark_90]

Good advice from Nobafett, don't bank on better fuel economy with a remap on a petrol car. You may see it get slightly better but it will be negligible.

[GoneToBeemer]

All I can say is that I have one of Ben's remaps and it's brilliant!

I havn't had mine on the dyno yet but someone else with a 2010 2.0 TSI had theirs remapped by ben and got 260 odd bhp and 280 lbs/ft of torque - Ben didn't you post a link somewhere to their results earlier in the week?

As far as economy goes I did see a slight improvement, one a run (keeping below 80) mine easily acheives 42-43 mpg, and faster than that it tends to drop to about 39 mpg but still for the amount of performance you get I think that economy is brilliant!

VRS manual all the way

[vRS_Pagey]

Although improved fuel economy is a bi-product of a remap, with that extra power available your foot will became strangely heavier, I know mine did!

I have a manual which is great but I know a lot of the guys on the MKVGti forum endorse the DSG with paddle shift especially when the lanuch control is included!

eccleshill, I'm guessing your 'thingummies' are nm?! The spec for the 1.8 tsi is 160 bhp and 250 nm (approximately 185 lb/ft) torque, I would say that the 7 speed DSG would cope with a great deal more than that, as there are plenty of cars with upto 300ft/lb torque running the 6 speed version. :S

Edited 23 December, 2010 by Pagey1255

[GoneToBeemer]

Although improved fuel economy is a bi-product of a remap, with that extra power available your foot will became strangely heavier, I know mine did!

I have a manual which is great but I know a lot of the guys on the MKVGti forum endorse the DSG with paddle shift especially when the lanuch control is included!

eccleshill, I'm guessing your 'thingummies' are nm?! The spec for the 1.8 tsi is 160 bhp and 250 nm (approximately 185 lb/ft) torque, I would say that the 7 speed DSG would cope with a great deal more than that, as there are plenty of cars with upto 300ft/lb torque running the 6 speed version. :S

Pagey the 7-speed transmission uses a dry clutch system, whereas the 6-speed uses a wet clutch. I'm not sure of the techincal differences but i know the dry clutch system can't take as much torque as the wet :(

[eccleshill]

eccleshill, I'm guessing your 'thingummies' are nm?! The spec for the 1.8 tsi is 160 bhp and 250 nm (approximately 185 lb/ft) torque, I would say that the 7 speed DSG would cope with a great deal more than that, as there are plenty of cars with upto 300ft/lb torque running the 6 speed version. :S

Thats it - newton metres! Couldn't remember the damned units for torque but "thingummies" clearly did the job

But it is Nm for newton metres; nm is nanometres.

The recommended limit on the 7 speed dry clutch DSG as fitted to the 1.8TSi is 250Nm. That is why the 2.0 diesels and VRs petrol gets the 6 speed wet clutch version while the lower powered versions (1.4TSi, 1.8TSi. 1.6TDi CR) get the 7

[101vrs]

Eccleshill,

How do you find the 1.8 TSi with the DSG box & how is the ride with the Sports suspension?

I'm thinking it won't be too far from my CR170 in terms of performance, although delivered in a different way?

I'm also torn between staying with a VRs or going for a DSG box. I know the VRs has the 6spd box but that makes the economy worse & ciming from a diesel i'll feel the cost a bit!!

If i can live with the performance of the 1.8Tsi then the pocket isn't hit as hard & i can add a few more options to improve the look & comfort (leather etc)

[vRS_Pagey]

Thats it - newton metres! Couldn't remember the damned units for torque but "thingummies" clearly did the job

But it is Nm for newton metres; nm is nanometres.

The recommended limit on the 7 speed dry clutch DSG as fitted to the 1.8TSi is 250Nm. That is why the 2.0 diesels and VRs petrol gets the 6 speed wet clutch version while the lower powered versions (1.4TSi, 1.8TSi. 1.6TDi CR) get the 7

Thanks for the info, but I'm still confused tbh, if Skoda recommend a maximum of 250 Nm on the 7 speed DSG, then according the spec's on their site the 1.8 tsi is at the limit from the factory, I would expect far more of a tolerance........ :S I could understand if it was 250 lb/ft though!

[eccleshill]

Eccleshill,

How do you find the 1.8 TSi with the DSG box & how is the ride with the Sports suspension?

I'm thinking it won't be too far from my CR170 in terms of performance, although delivered in a different way?

I'm also torn between staying with a VRs or going for a DSG box. I know the VRs has the 6spd box but that makes the economy worse & ciming from a diesel i'll feel the cost a bit!!

If i can live with the performance of the 1.8Tsi then the pocket isn't hit as hard & i can add a few more options to improve the look & comfort (leather etc)

Bear in mind that I came to the 1.8TSi from a 1.9TDi

I considered a manual petrol VRs but looked at the performance figures on paper and decided that for my purposes the difference between VRS and 1.8TSi was negligible. When I specced up the VRs to the level I wanted I realised that I could get the Elegance 1.8TSi with the DSG for a lower price. The 1.8 has (supposed) better fuel consumption, lower insurance and lower tax. I then got tempted by immediate delivery of one in the showroom that had loads of extras I would never have chosen - but that is another story.

It is only 3 months and 2500 miles old but the performance is more than enough for me. For overtaking put the DSG into S and floor the throttle - the rev counter flies round the clock and it takes off like a bat out of hell. Before you realise it the car you have overtaken is a dot in the mirror and you need to get off the throttle because though you are still only in 5th, accelerating hard and the speedo is well into 3 figures.

I have been a little disappointed with fuel consumption. Manufacturers combined figure is 42.8. On decent motorway trips (cruise control at 80 where traffic permits) the maxidot has shown around 40mpg. Around town - low to mid 30's on the maxidot. Maybe I'm just enjoying the performance too much Overall average using fuel fill is 34.5mpg vs a maxidot average of 36.5 - so maxidot reads about 2mpg optimistic. I am expecting the fuel consumption to be at least a couple of mpg better in the warmer weather.

The ride on the 17" and Sports suspension is definitely firmer than my old standard Elegance but some of that may be down to it being new. You feel it on rippled surfaces and potholes make me wince far more than before. It feels very solid on the road and only on a couple of times have I seen the ESP flicker when booting it round 1 particular roundabout that has a bit of a hump on the exit.

The leather interior is very nice - was totally non-plussed by it when I bought it but SWMBO liked it and now so do I - especially the heated seats in this current weather. I also have the 4 spoke MFSW (with no flappy paddles) and maxidot - never understood the fuss about maxidot until now.

some pics here http://www.flickr.com/photos/54637581@N03/5191373773/in/photostream/

[101vrs]

Bear in mind that I came to the 1.8TSi from a 1.9TDi

I considered a manual petrol VRs but looked at the performance figures on paper and decided that for my purposes the difference between VRS and 1.8TSi was negligible. When I specced up the VRs to the level I wanted I realised that I could get the Elegance 1.8TSi with the DSG for a lower price. The 1.8 has (supposed) better fuel consumption, lower insurance and lower tax. I then got tempted by immediate delivery of one in the showroom that had loads of extras I would never have chosen - but that is another story.

It is only 3 months and 2500 miles old but the performance is more than enough for me. For overtaking put the DSG into S and floor the throttle - the rev counter flies round the clock and it takes off like a bat out of hell. Before you realise it the car you have overtaken is a dot in the mirror and you need to get off the throttle because though you are still only in 5th, accelerating hard and the speedo is well into 3 figures.

I have been a little disappointed with fuel consumption. Manufacturers combined figure is 42.8. On decent motorway trips (cruise control at 80 where traffic permits) the maxidot has shown around 40mpg. Around town - low to mid 30's on the maxidot. Maybe I'm just enjoying the performance too much Overall average using fuel fill is 34.5mpg vs a maxidot average of 36.5 - so maxidot reads about 2mpg optimistic. I am expecting the fuel consumption to be at least a couple of mpg better in the warmer weather.

The ride on the 17" and Sports suspension is definitely firmer than my old standard Elegance but some of that may be down to it being new. You feel it on rippled surfaces and potholes make me wince far more than before. It feels very solid on the road and only on a couple of times have I seen the ESP flicker when booting it round 1 particular roundabout that has a bit of a hump on the exit.

The leather interior is very nice - was totally non-plussed by it when I bought it but SWMBO liked it and now so do I - especially the heated seats in this current weather. I also have the 4 spoke MFSW (with no flappy paddles) and maxidot - never understood the fuss about maxidot until now.

some pics here http://www.flickr.com/photos/54637581@N03/5191373773/in/photostream/

Thanks for the info, car looks good

I think the sports suspension gives a better look than the standard 16's

It's just a case now of deciding if i'd be happy with the performance of the TSi, whether i'd like the flexibility of remapping at a later date & if i really want the DSG box!!

I've also got to decide if i'm getting too old for a VRs & should settle down for something a little more sensible!! :p

Gives me something to ponder over during Christmas! :S

Cheers again

Mark G

[vRSy]

you only have the DSg limit if you go for the 1.8TSI.

If you go for a vRS TSI DSG there is no issue with torque on these gearbox's. This is the Golf TSI @ revo stage 2, so exactly what you could expect with the vRS.

you wont get the 1.8TSi anywhere near this

the way i see it, what is not sensible about the vRS. It has a great spec, large interior, low emissions, good economy, well built, excellent residuals etc etc. Its a very grown up car,

now if you were talking about a focus RS, or megane RS etc id understand

Edited 23 December, 2010 by janner_Sy

[lol-lol]

I decided to go for the 1.8 TSI DSG and SWMBO has a TSI VRS which I have driven about 10K in. The 1.8 TSI produces its 160 hp, some rolling roads measure 170 hp and say Skoda has deliberate quoted 160 for their own reasons, it does manage 140 mph on whatever hp it has, same as the wiesel VRS.

It is possible to re-map it so it maintains the 250 Mn torque between 4500 prm, where it makes its 160 or hp, up until say 6000 rpm where it would be making around 210 hp and then the map backs it off propgressively to stop it over-revving ie so the power and torque are tailing off as it heads towards 6500 to 7000 rpm as it should.

I would have thought the computer would cope with this and one could use manual shifting via stick or paddles (if have).

I am having problems getting the 160/170 hp down as the car came with poor Bridgestone Potenza RE 050 (not the A version) so it only has traction A rather than AA rating so that is where my first £400 quick will go but I will visit Autosport show as usual, only as a visitor this year rather than Exhibitor and will visit some of the stands to hear what Shark and others have to say. Merry Xmas and sticking to PS3 GT5 at the moment.

[Evening Star]

Let's look at it like this.

Power isn't everything, control is.

As I see it at the moment 160 bhp is more than enough to lose you, your licence, especially as we live in speed camera happy & the money grabbing UK (that's another thread altogether!)

I've got an 09-plated 1,8TSi Elegance + DSG box & generally I'm very happy with it, it can be fast when I need it to be & it can be as gentle as a anything when I don't.

The only complaint I've got with the DSG is that in snow it's pretty useless unless you're going to add winter tyres to to the car, although some people will disagree with that.

I don't have the flappy paddles, I failed to spot that omission, when I ordered it, but since this is my first automatic, I don't really miss them.

As for fuel consumption, I made the move from a TDi Golf to petrol and I was initially shocked on how bad petrol is for economy, I still am!

For example: A return trip from Surrey to West Somerset in the Golf used to use about ⅓ of a tank, whereas the TSi will use at least ½-⅔ tank!

So I'm currently experimenting with Super Unleaded in it to see if I can boost economy, at the moment it does seem to make a difference it both economy & performance!

I've got the "Sports Suspension" on mine too, it gives a firm ride & precise handling, which I think is actually better than that of the Golf, especially when you compare sizes of an Octavia & Golf.

Will I have another Octy Elegance, next year when the finance ends? Maybe, but I think if I do it'll have to be the 140CR version rather than the petrol if I do. Then again I'm becoming more drawn to the vRS CR170, now whether that makes any sort of sense when I do less than 7k miles pa, I don't know, but what I do like is the overall balance of torque & the economy of the diesel engines and especially with them now being the quieter common rail rather than the noisy Pumpe Düse engines.

This is something that I'm now considering more & more with the price of fuel on the up & up. At the moment I fill up with the petrol once every 2 weeks, with a diesel car I'd be considering filling up once every 4-5 weeks!

Oh choices, choices!

As for remapping, I thought about it & if I were going to I'd ask Ben (Shark_90) to do it, however I'm not going to because it'll affect my insurance and I'm not willing to pay those legalised fiddlers anymore money.

Edited 24 December, 2010 by Evening Star

[Auric Goldfinger]

Don't forget you Octavia Petrol Boys when I get my New Fabia MkII Vrs you'll all need a re-map just to keep up

[Mison]

Why don't you go for a manual 1.8TSI and get a stage 1 remap which will give you roughly the same power as the VRS. A DSG can only handle 184 torques so a remap is a no-no. My insurance went up but it was on par with a standard VRS. Something to ponder..

[lol-lol]

Why don't you go for a manual 1.8TSI and get a stage 1 remap which will give you roughly the same power as the VRS. A DSG can only handle 184 torques so a remap is a no-no. My insurance went up but it was on par with a standard VRS. Something to ponder..

Like I was saying above it should be possible to keep the torque plateau going past 4500 prm so as the revs rise the power will continue to rise from 160 hp at 4500, 178 hp at 5000 rpm, 195 hp at 5500 and 213 hp at 6000 when torque and power could be backed off, so no torque overload, power more than a std VRS or Golf GTI! Just revs a bit but it is the same EA888 as the petrol VRS so should be strong enough to last a while. Also 7 speed VRS has the rev range to still only be doing approx 5600 rpm at 155 mph, sounds like a plan.