4 Wheel Drive or 2 Wheel drive + Winter Tyres?

[marcusthehat]

CT

Cheers

Rockhopper

One would not intend to run winter tyres through the summer.

N.B.

Though MB do on the demo "G" Wagens at Graz, they stick like **** to the exposed bare rock on the Shockel mountain, quite disconcerting to experience stopping and restarting on an apparently impossible gradient.

I noticed the different rubber as soon as we approached the vehicles as it literally looked sticker, probably because the surface was disintegrating with the use/abuse.

But hey it helped to sell "G" Wagens, I can only presume.

Cheers

M

Edited 11 January, 2011 by dieseldogg

[loadswine]

I thought most people used slightly narrower winter tyres anyway, so it probably means no difference in real terms.

[speedsport]

Has anyone who started out with 225/50/17's, noticed any handling difference after going to the higher sidewall 55 or 60 ratio winter tyres?

The higher sidewall of the 60's should better absorb road imperfections (pot holes to you & me) but they will be less rigid under cornering, so in theory may result in less precise steering response & increased vagueness around straight ahead.

Some "decent brand" winter tyres are becoming available again, particularly from Reifen & Pneus (both in Germany) at sensible prices, so I'm trying to decide whether to go for 205/55/16, 205/60/16 or 215/60/16 and would appreciate views on any noted changes in handling charactaristics. (Yes I know the speedo will be out, but as it's inaccurate on standard tyres anyway, I already use an aftermarket Talex GPS indicator).

[rockhopper]

Has anyone who started out with 225/50/17's, noticed any handling difference after going to the higher sidewall 55 or 60 ratio winter tyres?

The higher sidewall of the 60's should better absorb road imperfections (pot holes to you & me) but they will be less rigid under cornering, so in theory may result in less precise steering response & increased vagueness around straight ahead.

Some "decent brand" winter tyres are becoming available again, particularly from Reifen & Pneus (both in Germany) at sensible prices, so I'm trying to decide whether to go for 205/55/16, 205/60/16 or 215/60/16 and would appreciate views on any noted changes in handling charactaristics. (Yes I know the speedo will be out, but as it's inaccurate on standard tyres anyway, I already use an aftermarket Talex GPS indicator).

I've not driven Elsie on standard wheels & tyres, but even with the 215/60 R16's the speedo still under reads by a little.

If I could I'd have gone for even deeper side walls, but it wasn't an option, as the sizes are silly on the Yeti.

Mike

[bahnstormer vrs]

Has anyone who started out with 225/50/17's, noticed any handling difference after going to the higher sidewall 55 or 60 ratio winter tyres?

The higher sidewall of the 60's should better absorb road imperfections (pot holes to you & me) but they will be less rigid under cornering, so in theory may result in less precise steering response & increased vagueness around straight ahead.

Some "decent brand" winter tyres are becoming available again, particularly from Reifen & Pneus (both in Germany) at sensible prices, so I'm trying to decide whether to go for 205/55/16, 205/60/16 or 215/60/16 and would appreciate views on any noted changes in handling charactaristics. (Yes I know the speedo will be out, but as it's inaccurate on standard tyres anyway, I already use an aftermarket Talex GPS indicator).

I've not driven on 'both' to be able to compare but you don't have to go onto one of the 16" sizes for winter tyres; you could just put 225/50 17 winter tyres on. I have.

Certainly, not that I've pushed Kevin too hard yet, 225/50 17 winter tyres seem to keep the taughtness of the handling that I was expecting of him. I would anticipate softer handling and more roll on any of the 16" sizes.

[rockhopper]

I would anticipate softer handling and more roll on any of the 16" sizes.

Thats what I'm after.

Anyone want to change spitzberg 17" for moon alloys 16"?

Mike

Edited 14 January, 2011 by rockhopper

[loadswine]

The winters on 16s are fine for general use, but looking forward to the 17s going back on for some more spirited handling. Definitely sharper.

[bahnstormer vrs]

The winters on 16s are fine for general use, but looking forward to the 17s going back on for some more spirited handling. Definitely sharper.

That's what I like to hear and why I kept my 17s but shod them with 225/50 17 winter tyres; to keep the handling bias on the sporty side when there is no snow ................

....................... but I'll be moving to 18s in the summer with 225/45 18 tyres.

[speedsport]

The winters on 16s are fine for general use, but looking forward to the 17s going back on for some more spirited handling. Definitely sharper.

This is what I am expecting - Thanks. Which make/size winters are you using?

[loadswine]

Continental 205/55/16 TS 830, mounted on VAG 6.5J 16" alloys, originally from a Seat Altea.

You can feel the Yeti wants to go round corners nimbly, but I'm reluctant to really go for it as the winters are a bit softer side wall and don't want to ruin them or the tread blocks, especially as its been warmer this week.

(Think I'll take the MR2 out for a blast today instead. lol)

[speedsport]

Continental 205/55/16 TS 830, mounted on VAG 6.5J 16" alloys, originally from a Seat Altea.

You can feel the Yeti wants to go round corners nimbly, but I'm reluctant to really go for it as the winters are a bit softer side wall and don't want to ruin them or the tread blocks, especially as its been warmer this week.

(Think I'll take the MR2 out for a blast today instead. lol)

Many thanks, That seems to be the easiest tyre size to get hold of, though the Conti's are now at silly prices. May have to go for Nokian WRG2's, which are a lot cheaper & readily available direct from Germany. The European Tyre reports say they're not as good in snow, but may be better in UK type wet & slush.

Pity I cant find the Avon Ice Touring in the tyre tests though, to see how they compare on the same tests as the Conti's, Michelins etc. The Avon does seem to be available in the UK at around £120 per corner fitted - though that's still £27 a tyre more expensive than the Nokian's.

[rockhopper]

I've been trying to find a spare 215/60 R16 Continental WinterConract TS810, but not bee able to find one anywhere. I have a spare wheel for it now.

Mike

[The Plumber]

Many thanks, That seems to be the easiest tyre size to get hold of, though the Conti's are now at silly prices. May have to go for Nokian WRG2's, which are a lot cheaper & readily available direct from Germany. The European Tyre reports say they're not as good in snow, but may be better in UK type wet & slush.

Pity I cant find the Avon Ice Touring in the tyre tests though, to see how they compare on the same tests as the Conti's, Michelins etc. The Avon does seem to be available in the UK at around £120 per corner fitted - though that's still £27 a tyre more expensive than the Nokian's.

Had the Nokian WR G2 (205/55 R16 94H XL) on my previous 4x4 Monster; appeared to be an excellent tyre in all winter conditions.

Regards,

TP

[speedsport]

I've been trying to find a spare 215/60 R16 Continental WinterConract TS810, but not bee able to find one anywhere. I have a spare wheel for it now.

Mike

I think you are going to struggle Mike! They're not even available from Germany (Reifen) or France (Tyres-Pneus). I gather that the factory reverted to summer tyre production in October - the European compulsory fitment market was fully suplied by then - and the next production run won't be until be at least July/August - apparently.

Had the Nokian WR G2 (205/55 R16 94H XL) on my previous 4x4 Monster; appeared to be an excellent tyre in all winter conditions.

TP

Thanks TP. They're looking favourites at the moment. How did you find it coping with what should have been a substantial difference on the speedo (albeit that it was reading on the safe side)? My SM on standard 17" wheels is only doing 66 mph at an indicated 70mph, so on the 205/55/16's it will only be doing around 63mph.

Was your fuel consumption noticably affected as, in theory, it should have been 3.8% worse?

205/60/16's are a little cheaper and wouldn't have such a big impact on indicated speed.

215/60/16's would bring things much closer to an accurate reading, though as Mike says above, they are like hens teeth!

John H

Edited 15 January, 2011 by speedsport

[The Plumber]

Thanks TP. They're looking favourites at the moment. How did you find it coping with what should have been a substantial difference on the speedo (albeit that it was reading on the safe side)? My SM on standard 17" wheels is only doing 66 mph at an indicated 70mph, so on the 205/55/16's it will only be doing around 63mph.

Was your fuel consumption noticably affected as, in theory, it should have been 3.8% worse?

205/60/16's are a little cheaper and wouldn't have such a big impact on indicated speed.

215/60/16's would bring things much closer to an accurate reading, though as Mike says above, they are like hens teeth!

John H

Hi John,

regard speed I used to use about 65 indicated on national speed A roads (were conditions permitted of course) and 75 on a motorway. Fuel by computer was almost always in the 50's but at the pumps I felt there was no real difference in my weekly bill.

Currently running my wife's Fabia on winters which are almost comparable for size with the OEM;

195/55 R15 winter

205/45 R16 standard

Noticed with the fuel computer here I'm still getting a couple more mpg on the winter set-up :wonder:

Regard the 215's yes hard to find but Pneus have some UNIROYAL winters in this size for a reasonable £102.79 a corner.

Regards,

TP

[speedsport]

Hi John,

regard speed I used to use about 65 indicated on national speed A roads (were conditions permitted of course) and 75 on a motorway. Fuel by computer was almost always in the 50's but at the pumps I felt there was no real difference in my weekly bill.

Currently running my wife's Fabia on winters which are almost comparable for size with the OEM;

195/55 R15 winter

205/45 R16 standard

Noticed with the fuel computer here I'm still getting a couple more mpg on the winter set-up :wonder:

Regard the 215's yes hard to find but Pneus have some UNIROYAL winters in this size for a reasonable £102.79 a corner.

Regards,

TP

Thanks once again TP

Yes, I'd noticed those Uniroyals; Still a lot more expensive than Reifen's Nokian 205/60/16s at £89 though! Could still be worth it, both tyres get a good write up, though the Nokians are supposed to have a "sportier feel".

Cheers

John H

Edited 15 January, 2011 by speedsport

[The Plumber]

Thanks once again TP

Yes, I'd noticed those Uniroyals; Still a lot more expensive than Reifen's Nokian 205/60/16s at £89 though! Could still be worth it, both tyres get a good write up.

Cheers

John H

A further spot Hankook W310 for 91 euros reifen

TP

[speedsport]

A further spot Hankook W310 for 91 euros reifen

TP

You are, of course, en-tyre-ly correct!

Local branch of Event Tyres has Avon Ice Touring ST 215/60/16's at £119 fitted, but I still cant find any reviews of them (the tyres that is, Event Tyres, Old Trafford are brilliant).

[oldstan]

A further spot Hankook W310 for 91 euros reifen

TP

Hardly breaking news, yes we've well and truly covered it, but what a vast difference in choice (and price) at Reifen between 215/60/16 and the slightly smaller circumference 205/55/16..........and, yes, I do acknowledge that that's the reason TP and many others, including Johann went there (but do I recall correctly, Johann, you said you'd get the bigger ones next time???... mainly a visual thing - to fill out the gap all around them??)

I will, without doubt, fit W/T's when mine arrives in (estimated) Week 14. I am keen to stick with the larger 215/60/16 and hope by Spring/Summer there will be more about and prices will be stable. After all the debate I'm not aware that I have any choice other than to fit the 215/60's if I want to retain the OEM circumference (and in so doing retain the blessing of SUK and the Insurance co's, as I understand it).........but if i've missed something (or SUK have amended their recommendations), then, rather like Prince Charles, I'm all ears!

Edited 15 January, 2011 by oldstan

[oldstan]

You are, of course, en-tyre-ly correct!

Local branch of Event Tyres has Avon Ice Touring ST 215/60/16's at £119 fitted, but I still cant find any reviews of them (the tyres that is, Event Tyres, Old Trafford are brilliant).

I have seen reviews but can't, as we speak, put my finger on one....but recall reading on forums slightly mixed reports - but nowhere was anything bad -as in BAD. I recently showed a local tyre supplier my hand written list of possble options that I'd unscientifically drawn up ie. Conti. Dunlop, Vreds, Mich, Nokian...and Avon - and he very politely and discreetly expressed slightly guarded enthusiasm for the latter...but that, in itself, proves nothing and, as I say, on forums, people have raved over them (which also proves nothing, I realise!)

EDIT.........http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Ice-Touring-ST_2.htm

But you've probably seen that. There does seem to be plenty written about them when doing a quick Google.

Edited 15 January, 2011 by oldstan

[speedsport]

I have seen reviews but can't, as we speak, put my finger on one....but recall reading on forums slightly mixed reports - but nowhere was anything bad -as in BAD. I recently showed a local tyre supplier my hand written list of possble options that I'd unscientifically drawn up ie. Conti. Dunlop, Vreds, Mich, Nokian...and Avon - and he very politely and discreetly expressed slightly guarded enthusiasm for the latter...but that, in itself, proves nothing and, as I say, on forums, people have raved over them (which also proves nothing, I realise!)

EDIT.........http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Avon/Ice-Touring-ST_2.htm

But you've probably seen that. There does seem to be plenty written about them when doing a quick Google.

Thanks for the info, though you are correct, I'd already seen that one. I was hoping to find the Avons reviewed as part of a group tyre test, but they seem strangely absent. They don't even feature in pneus customer's winter tyre survey - there are many obscure tyres listed, but not Avon.Once upon a time, if you had Avons on your road car, you were though of as being somewhat flush in order to be able to afford this premium British tyre that was normally fitted by Rolls-Royce. I'm not so sure these days!

I too drew up a short list, having analysed the Tyrereviews European Winter Tyre Tests but although i learned a great deal about Winter Tyres that I didn't know before, much of it is academic when there are so few available and several of those have had their prices doubled over the last few weeks.

I guess that I'm looking for the impossible... a known brand tyre that has excellent performance in snow and mud, that handles well in dry & wet conditions & doesn't dull the terrific handling feel of the Yeti. All at as low a price as possible.

I know I will need to compomise, but which bit?

Incidentally, if you delve a bit further than the tyre search pages, pneus has some fantasticaly useful information hidden on its site that answers many questions that have appeared on this forum over the last couple of months.

[speedsport]

I also put this together to compare the 225/50-17's fitted to my 1.8TSi with the other tyre sizes. Note that I've included a 215/55-16 which isn't actually an approved tyre, though I cant see why it shouldn't be.

......................................................Speedo reads 30.............Speedo reads 60.................Speedo reads 70

Tyre Size.........Difference %............Actulal speed=...................Actual speed=....................Actual speed=

225/50-17..........Std tyre 0%................30.0 mph............................60.0 mph.............................70.0 mph

215/60-16...........+1.2%......................30.4 mph............................60.7 mph.............................70.8 mph

205/60-16............-0.7%......................29.8 mph............................59.6 mph.............................69.5 mph

215/55-16............-2.1%......................29.4 mph............................58.7 mph.............................68.5 mph

205/55-16............-3.8%......................28.9 mph............................57.7 mph.............................67.3 mph

Your speedometer will already be showing a higher speed than your actual road speed as most speedos are deliberately made that way.

My Yeti speedo is approx 3mph fast at 60mph, so I add that to the above to get my true road speed.

Edited 15 January, 2011 by speedsport

[AnotherGareth]

Noticed with the fuel computer here I'm still getting a couple more mpg on the winter set-up :wonder:

Two possibilities come to mind. First is that the unsprung weight has been reduced by fitting narrower winter tyres on smaller wheels, even if the smaller wheels are steel and the larger wheels are alloy. That was certainly the case on our car, by more than 2 lbs per corner. The second possibility is that the rolling resistance of the winter tyres is less than that of the summer tyres, even though it seems nonsensical I believe it can happen as the winter properties aren't necessary a function of rolling resistance.

Edited 16 January, 2011 by AnotherGareth

[macakfric]

What about ground clearance? For me, it defeats the purpose of having crossover if ground clearance is reduced to what you usually have with hatchback.

According to this thread

Yeti GreenLine II - Moon alloy 7J 16 ET 45 (UK specification on all levels of trim)

Tyre specification required = 205/55 R16 91H (UK specification, may differ in some European Countries).

Note: ground clearance on this model reduced to 155mm.

I didn't quite understand this, if I choose 205/55 16'' ground clearance will be reduced to just over 15 cm or is this just the standard ground clearance for Yeti GreenLine II model?

[The Plumber]

What about ground clearance? For me, it defeats the purpose of having crossover if ground clearance is reduced to what you usually have with hatchback.

According to this thread

Yeti GreenLine II - Moon alloy 7J 16 ET 45 (UK specification on all levels of trim)

Tyre specification required = 205/55 R16 91H (UK specification, may differ in some European Countries).

Note: ground clearance on this model reduced to 155mm.

I didn't quite understand this, if I choose 205/55 16'' ground clearance will be reduced to just over 15 cm or is this just the standard ground clearance for Yeti GreenLine II model?

Hi,

as far as I'm aware the Greenline II has a 20mm drop on the suspension; the other 5mm (approx) being the reduced tyre diameter. This reduction in ride hight being for aerodynamic reasons and reduced tyre rolling resistance.

The new ride hight I believe is comparable with the standard Octavia 4x4.

Regards,

TP